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New Service help

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tycham

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Nov 23, 2022
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I have a new shop and now for the electrical. I have two choices for the service.

1 The utility company will relocate my house meter to a location close to the transformer. I will have a meter there and then a circuit to the house and one to the shop

2 A new service with the meter near the transformer then to the shop.

The shop run will be direct burial (150 feet) #2 mobile home cable . The shop is grounded by copper tied into the rebar. I would like to do a panel inside so I can do a single penetration into the building.

Questions are many. If I do a new service what are the requirements at the new meter and at the outside of the building? If I go with relocation of exiting meter what needs are at the new location and the building?

Is there a way that I can do a penetration without hardware at the building without an outside panel? Total run is 150 feet and you can see the entrance from either install
 

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Innovate1

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You need to talk to your utility and the AHJ. You can get general info here but this varies a lot by area and also if you are rural or not. Would help if your drawing showed both buildings and they were labeled.

If you relocate the meter from the house to the pole you likely will need to put a disconnect at the pole and feed to house will need to be 4 wire - and is 3 wire now.

I don't understand the question about penetration without hardware. Are you considering conduit as hardware? I have seen older installations where the feed from the meter to the panel is a cable without conduit but doubt that is what you are after. Typically you put an LB at the top of the conduit riser and go through the wall with conduit. And use wire in the trench that is approved for interior use like MHF.
 
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tycham

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Nov 23, 2022
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Not sure why the house location is important but it is 100 feet away, 300 from the shop. By penetration I am talking one conduit hole running a panel inside versus an outside panel requiring multiple conduits to the various circuits.

Conduit sweep out of the ground into a LB and then into the back of the 100 amp panel. Is there a need for a disconnect outside the building?
 
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Innovate1

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tycham said:
Not sure why the house location is important but it is 100 feet away, 300 from the shop. By penetration I am talking one conduit hole running a panel inside versus an outside panel requiring multiple conduits to the various circuits.

Conduit sweep out of the ground into a LB and then into the back of the 100 amp panel. Is there a need for a disconnect outside the building?
Click to expand...
Ok, 300 feet from house to shop. Now I understand why you don't have house to shop feed as an option although it's not completely unreasonable.

If you are doing direct burial most of the time you can skip the sweep at the bottom and just use a vertical section. Probably not a need for a disconnect on the shop if you have a disconnect at the pole. Again, you need to confirm this with the utility and AHJ. Some places may not require an outside disconnect anywhere.

One meter for both house and shop would save the monthly cost of a second meter but you will have to weigh that against the cost of modifying the pole to house run.
 
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wyliesdiesels

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Modesto, CA
If you end up with disconnects at the meter, then the house & shop panels will need to be subpanels which means 4-wire and isolated neutral bar(s). This may prove to be difficult with the existing house panel so keep this in mind.

If you dont go with disconnects at the meter, keep in mind you will have lots of unfused wire running on your property which is not a good idea IMHO, especially with direct buried wire.

Do you have pics of the house panel with the cover on and off?
 
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tycham

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Nov 23, 2022
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I think that relocating the meter probably makes the most 'cents'. Just not sure the paneling requirement to run 100 amps to the shop and 200 to the house. The utility is relocating the meter and the wiring to the house will now go from the transformer to the new panel and back to the house, The power company is just cutting into the cable and rerouting. I am only responsible from the new box to the shop.

 
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wyliesdiesels

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Modesto, CA
Ok couple things here. if you want 100a to the shop, you will need #1 AL or #3 CU as #2 AL is rated for 90a max. What do you plan on running in the shop?

having 2 meters will most likely be more expensive. better options are:

A) meter main w/ dual (or more) disconnects or
B) dual lug meter pan w/ service entrance feeds going to the house & shop.

Option A means that the existing house panel will need to be converted into a subpanel which may prove difficult. Also, you may need to replace this panel if its not rated for 200a.

Option B would mean you have unfused wire running on your property which is not a good idea IMHO as you would have no way to shut it off other than pulling the meter.
 
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DaveInTX

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May 29, 2020
Messages
37
Location
Texas
tycham said:
I have a new shop and now for the electrical. I have two choices for the service.

1 The utility company will relocate my house meter to a location close to the transformer. I will have a meter there and then a circuit to the house and one to the shop

2 A new service with the meter near the transformer then to the shop.

The shop run will be direct burial (150 feet) #2 mobile home cable . The shop is grounded by copper tied into the rebar. I would like to do a panel inside so I can do a single penetration into the building.

Questions are many. If I do a new service what are the requirements at the new meter and at the outside of the building? If I go with relocation of exiting meter what needs are at the new location and the building?

Is there a way that I can do a penetration without hardware at the building without an outside panel? Total run is 150 feet and you can see the entrance from either install
Click to expand...
This sounds similar to what I'm doing right now.... Some of my details are below:
  • I built a shop ~75' from the house and need to run electric to it. Currently my meter is on my house and my house's breaker panel (and its subpanel) are both pretty full.
  • I'm relocating my meter back to the PoCo's utility pole (where the transformer is mounted), about 120' from the house. The relocated meter will have a 200a main breaker (disconnect) below it, with feed-through lugs for the 200a house service and 8 spaces for breakers - I'll use one of the breakers to run 125a to the shop.
  • The main issue with this setup (which wyliesdiesels mentioned in his comment above) is that the house panel will now be a subpanel, requiring separate neutral / ground wires (4 wires versus 3), and isolated grounds / neutrals inside the panel. This isn't as big of a deal for me, as I was planning to run new wires from the transformer to the house anyway... it'll just require some work inside the panel, separating the grounds / neutrals. The shop panel will have 125a service coming through the slab (4-wire configuration).
 
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FredWanaker

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Mar 27, 2021
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are you going to install solar panels and/or a generator at any time in the future? If so, how would it affect your decision?
 
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