New service to new shop help please!

[jay94gt]

I will be adding new service to my new pole barn garage and i need help !
Can i just install a new meter base on outside and mount a breaker panel inside directly behind meter base?
If so what wire do i need to ask for from meter up to weather head?
What wire from meter into breaker box?
I want to install 200 amp service!
Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated
If you dont mind put in sime terms as im not real knowledgable with the
Terms!
Thanks

 

[jay94gt]

Also need recommendations on what kind and brands of panels you suggest
Thanks!

 

[laser3kw]

a good first step is to call your POCO and see what they will do for you. They just might run the overhead all the way to the meter base for you. General the load center is directly behind the meter head.

 

[Norcal]

You are going to have find out what your PoCo's requirements are before proceeding, they will dictate where your meter can goes & will have to meet all their requirements before they will hook you up. 3/0 copper, or 250 kcmil aluminum, since a pole barn is not a residence, as to panels, my 1st choice is Cutler-Hammer (Eaton) type CH , not the BR trash, the 2nd choices are Siemens copper bused, or SQ D QO. Any of those 3 will be fine.


I have little use for Eaton BR, SQ D HOM, or GE, panels.

 

[jay94gt]

Im in the county in alabama
I called poco they came and let me know where on outside of building i could mount meter but i was at work when he came so i didnt get a chance to ask many questions. I read most suggested 2/0 copper or 4/0 aluminum
I dont know the names and if it needs to be 4 wire just from meter in to panel
Do i need 3 wire up to weather head and does it have a special name for being exposed out of wearher head like uv protection?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Do yourself a favor. Buy a combo meter socket and disconnect. GE, Siemens, Square D, they all make them. They will have the meter either on top (GE) or to the side, and on the other side of the same box is the main disconnect, and spaces for 4 to 8 circuits, which is handy to have. You can use the outside breakers for supplying a well, a garden shed, a pool or hot tub an outside A/C unit, or anything else that is outside. Saves having to run the wire from inside.

Pay the extra money and get a panel with a copper or tin plated copper bus in it. Aluminum bus panels will have problems in the future being in a uncontrolled atmosphere (non air conditioned).

When you do this type of install, you will be carrying FOUR wires from the outside disconnect to the panel inside, as the inside panel technically is a subpanel, since the main disconnect is outside.

Power company can tell you the height the meter needs to be mounted at, give or take. Not as important with smart meters, but still you need it at the correct height.

I put mine back to back.

A lot has changed since I took these pic.

 

[jay94gt]

If i were to not have a outside disconnect i would have the 3 wire up to weather head a seperate ground wire down to ground rod then 4 wire still inside for two hot, neutral,and ground to inside panel?
I hear some talk about a removable screw inside panel linking ground and neutrals? Any info about that please?

Also shop siding is metal how do you recommend securing to side of outside wall? Screw through panel and siding into girts?
Looks like last pic panel is secured by *******?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Im in the county in alabama
I called poco they came and let me know where on outside of building i could mount meter but i was at work when he came so i didnt get a chance to ask many questions. I read most suggested 2/0 copper or 4/0 aluminum
I dont know the names and if it needs to be 4 wire just from meter in to panel
Do i need 3 wire up to weather head and does it have a special name for being exposed out of wearher head like uv protection?

The size of wire depends on the size of service. If u go with 200a service then u need either 2/0 CU or 4/0. U only need 3 wire from weatherhead to meter pan.

If u go with a divorced meter/no disconnect, then u can run 3 wire to your main service panel.

However, i recommend a meter main combo with a disconnect as Charles has already recommended. If u go that route then u need 4-wire between the disconnect and the inside panel, which will be considered a subpanel. And be aware that u may need to buy a ground bar kit, as some panels dont come with ground bars.

U will also need 2 8' ground rods spaced 6' apart.

 

[mikejk]

If you don't have a disconnect outside and have the panel on the backside of the meter then you only need 3 wire and you have to use a main breaker panel. If you do have the disconnect outside then you use 4 wire which would be a separate neutral and ground from the outside disconnect to the panel. Since they are separate, the bonding screw would then be removed from the neutral bar which would isolate it from being in contact with the panel. They will however come from the same bar or be bonded together in the disconnect.

 

[mikejk]

Oops little late on my reply... basically what he said. I'm surprised everyone is suggesting the combo, you don't see them much around here.

 

[jay94gt]

I wanted to go with just meter outside i figure worst case if i ever needed power
Outside i could run in a LB imside but my house is only about 30 feet from corner of my shop so as far as pool or hot tub etc i can pull off my house panel
The reason im not running my shop power off of house is due to my house meter is on opposite side of house and i wanted full 200 amp at garage if i ever meed it

So i can just run 3 wire 2/0 copper from meter up to weather head? 3 wire 2/0 copper from meter through wall into main breaker? Add a ground from meter done to ground rod? Is this correct?
What is the name of wires i need at store? Just tell em 2/0 copper service wireor is there a different name for the wires up to weather head for uv/ sun protection? Im a newbie on this so thanks for the help and patience!

 

[jay94gt]

Also would love if someone had pics of how they mounted there outside meter on metal rib walls! Post frame building

 

[Norcal]

2/0 CU, & 4/0 AL are 200A rated for a residence only, and the table allowing those sizes has been deleted from the 2014 NEC, requiring calculations to undersize the conductors.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

2/0 CU, & 4/0 AL are 200A rated for a residence only, and the table allowing those sizes has been deleted from the 2014 NEC, requiring calculations to undersize the conductors.

Yup youre right. I have residential service wire sizes stuck on the brain!

good to know about the 2014 code. I wonder why they did that? So southwire and cerrowire can sell larger wire for residences?

So the OP will need 3/0 CU or 250Kcmil for 200a service as u said above!

 

[Norcal]

Unless the load calcs say the load is 180A or less then 4/0 AL would be OK, 2/0 CU is rated 175A which is a standard size fuse or circuit breaker so the would have to be 175A.

 

[jay94gt]

So the poco gave me a meter can and i purchased a 200 amp interior breaker panel i mounted the meter base today on outside using some super strut from home depot. Waiting on a free ground rod and a piece of rigid metal 2 inch pipr from a family member! I had a few questions to help clarify a few things before i move forward.
Should i buy the service wires seperate or in one insulated wrapped piece
3 4/0 aluminum wires?

I am just running a main panel behind meter no sub panels. Do i only have to run a ground wire from meter lug thats next to neutral lug down to ground rod?
What size ground wire? Does it have to be insulAted?

I did add green bond screw in main panel bonding neutral/grounds to panel correct?
Should i use pvc or metal as the ****** connecting meter to main panel?
Do i hav to use any bonding bushings anywhere? ****** or over head rigid pipe?
If so how do i ground them?
Thanks

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Uni-strut looks like **** behind a meter. I know everyone does it, but it just looks hack on the outside of the building. Is the uni-strut you used gold color (cadium plated) or is it silver (galvanize)? The gold cad plate will rust in a few days. The galvanize will last a lot longer, you need to paint or prime the cut ends or they will rust. End result of the rust is brown rust streaks running down the side of your nice new building.

If you use metal pipe, you will need to use bonding rings and bonding jumpers. Much easier to use PVC and forgo all of that. It took me a couple of days to fit my meter base (see pics post #6) so the hole for the feed to the panel fell out in the exact middle of the flat (it really isn't flat on mine, it has a tiny raised rib and I ended up actually notching the PVC fitting to mate to it). POCO offered me a free meter socket also. I absolutely wanted an outside disconnect so I declined. I did a new service on my parents house in the late '90's and I got stupid and took the free can, but then the city where the house is required a outside disconnect so I ended up with a hack looking job anyhow.

Your rigid pipe mast will be screwed into the hub on top of the can, and then will be bolted to the meter can, so no bonding needed there, just support for the mast and a weather head.

Pros, correct me if I'm wrong here, but since the disconnect is inside the ground to the rod(s) needs to originate from the ground bar of the main panel and go out to the rod(s). You will need two rods, at least 6 ft apart unless you can prove that there is less than 25 ohms from the rod to earth resistance. The wire(s) from the rod(s) to the panel needs to be one piece and not spliced anywhere between the rod and panel. You are best off to use #6 solid copper for this, it is sold in rolls just for this purpose.

Charles

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So the poco gave me a meter can and i purchased a 200 amp interior breaker panel i mounted the meter base today on outside using some super strut from home depot. Waiting on a free ground rod and a piece of rigid metal 2 inch pipr from a family member! I had a few questions to help clarify a few things before i move forward.
Should i buy the service wires seperate or in one insulated wrapped piece
3 4/0 aluminum wires?

I am just running a main panel behind meter no sub panels. Do i only have to run a ground wire from meter lug thats next to neutral lug down to ground rod?
What size ground wire? Does it have to be insulAted?

I did add green bond screw in main panel bonding neutral/grounds to panel correct?
Should i use pvc or metal as the ****** connecting meter to main panel?
Do i hav to use any bonding bushings anywhere? ****** or over head rigid pipe?
If so how do i ground them?
Thanks

if it were me, i would use an exterior disconnect. Makes it easier to shut off the power. Does your main service panel have a main breaker?

As Norcal pointed out, u need to do load calcs to figure out if youre load is 180a or less to be able to use 4/0 AL, otherwise u need 250Kcmil AL.

As far as the GEC to the rods in the meter can, u need to check with your PoCo if they will allow that in the can. Some do but most dont. If u do put it in the can u will also need to run it into your main service panel. #6 solid bare CU is your best bet as it doesnt need to be in conduit unless subject to damage. No it doesnt need to be insulated. #8 needs to be in conduit no mattwr what.

Yes the neutral bonding screw needs to be in place.

I would use PVC for the reasons Charles mentioned...

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Around here we connect the ground rods at the meter sockets,our meter sockets come with a lug mounted inside for this purpose.
Then we just use bonding bushings on rest of the service and panel.
Oh yeah,SQ-D homeline for residential/Qo for commercial rocks!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

In a non-environment controlled building you probably should use a panel with a copper bus, or a tin plated copper bus. Using one with an aluminum bus is inviting corrosion down the road. I installed a Siemens main lug 4040 panel with copper bus bars, and a combo panel outside (I think its Square D, don't recall for sure, wished I had got one with places for breakers in it but this was about year 2000 and stuff like that was not quite as common.)

 

[Lightman]

if it were me, i would use an exterior disconnect. Makes it easier to shut off the power. Does your main service panel have a main breaker?

As Norcal pointed out, u need to do load calcs to figure out if youre load is 180a or less to be able to use 4/0 AL, otherwise u need 250Kcmil AL.

As far as the GEC to the rods in the meter can, u need to check with your PoCo if they will allow that in the can. Some do but most dont. If u do put it in the can u will also need to run it into your main service panel. #6 solid bare CU is your best bet as it doesnt need to be in conduit unless subject to damage. No it doesnt need to be insulated. #8 needs to be in conduit no mattwr what.

Yes the neutral bonding screw needs to be in place.

I would use PVC for the reasons Charles mentioned...

Double check with POCO as far as meter spec., we used to require #4, for 200 amp, (37 year utility employee). We had a spec sheet we handed out with meter bases.
Mast and wire for weatherhead, on overhead service, customer only required conduit from meterbase to below dirt for underground around $200 for first 300 feet pole to meterbase. We furnished owned and maintained UG.

 

[jay94gt]

Ok got a little more done today. Framed up part of interior wall for future metal
Ribbed walls so i could go ahead and have main panel spaced correctly.
Got main panel mounted as well. I got hole made and 2 inch pvc schedule 80 connecting meter and main panel through wall. I have meter temporary bolted up as i need to seal around pipe and screws going through wall.
I need some more help/advise please!

Would you use clear silicone around pipe or some kind of putty?

Would you prime and paint the rigid conduit before putting up if so what would stick and look best. Walls are ash gray?

Would you run rigid pipe above roof or just up 10ft on side wall? See pics of where meter is mounted its over 13 ft to roof line?

Whats my options to secure pipe to wall other than unistrut as pipe is few inches away from wall at meter base?
Rigid metal weather head like home depot has or some kind of better sealing plastic weather head?
Thanks all help is greatly appreciated as im a first timer!

 

[jay94gt]

Pic of meter

 

[jay94gt]

Before meter but shows height of gable with no overhang so you can advise if you would run rigid above roof or just up to 10-12 ft

 

[jay94gt]

Any one?
Thanks!