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New Shop/Warehouse Epoxy floor

Rob Beckers

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The past few weeks I have been reading up on epoxy, to put on the floor of a little warehouse that I am building. This forum has been a great resource for that! :bowdown: In the past I have put epoxy on garage floors twice; the first one was with Rustoleum Pro (the solvent based version) and it worked out great, the second one used U-Coat-It, and as noted by all the reports on this forum it dries to a very thin layer that is not very durable. Since the new floor will be used for business, and I will drive an 8700 lbs forklift on it, I have been looking at 100% (or at least high) solids epoxies with a PU top coat. A long construction thread of the building and its 1100 sq. ft. floor, with lots of pictures, can be found on another forum. You should also know that I am in Canada, Ottawa to be exact, so while the US epoxy choices are available they get expensive in shipping.

After looking at the various options I have chosen to put the Devoe line of floor products down. They have stores in my area, have good pricing, and most importantly, their floor tech support guy is an absolutely wonderful resource with decades of epoxy floor experience. Talking to him has been very informative, and a pleasure. If you are in Canada and want to get in touch with him drop me a PM (I don't know if he wants his E-mail address plastered on a public forum, so just ask me for it).

In particular, this is the plan for my 1100 sq. ft. floor:

3 kits (6 gal) Devfloor 505 - water based epoxy primer - 3.7 mil dry
4 kits (12 gal) Devfloor 527 - 100% solids floor epoxy - 18 mil dry
2 kits (6 gal) Devfloor 562 - PU coating - 4.8 mil dry
DevBeads - anti slip

These particular Devfloor products are meant to be used together, they are made by the same manufacturer (and that is not Valspar). These products are not listed in the US catalog, though it seems they are available on request there. It seems south of the border they were 'superseded' by the Valspar-made products mentioned in other threads, but those have such poor performance that the Canadian side of Devoe decided to stick with the above products. That is the story I was told. The Devran and Devthane products mentioned in other threads are available as well (that's what I first intended to use), but those are essentially epoxy paints, not primarily meant for floor use. In my opinion, either one will probably work just fine if the prep work is good. In terms of price the Devfloor products listed above are almost the same price as the Devran and Dethane products, so why not use them. Talking about price, 505 normally goes for $51.78/gal, 527 goes for $52.67/gal, and 562 runs $69.33/gal. Those prices are in Canadian dollars. I say 'normally' because thanks to a very friendly (and helpful) manager of the local ICI store I'm getting a pretty good discount on those prices. In terms of price comparison, even without the additional discount, using the Devoe products would cost a little less than Wolverine epoxy (with my discount the difference is large though), and it saves $300+ dollars in shipping cost.

So far the introduction. The epoxy is on order as of this morning and should be coming in later this week. I also have a Bosch 1773AK on the way, to grind the surface of the concrete and will be picking that up later this week. Main problem is going to be the temperature: The Devoe products have a lower temperature limit of 13 Centigrade (about 55F), we are already seeing freezing weather at night here. The warehouse is heated, but does not have a door in the front yet. The plan is to tarp off the front, and run the heater. Hopefully that will do the trick.

That's all for now. I'll update this thread when the work progresses.

-RoB-
 
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thegarageguy

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Hello Rob,

I'm curious why the tech support guy did not recommend a double broadcast quartz floor? Since you mentioned forklift action, this type of floor is not ideal but usually spec'd by engineers and architechts. At least do a single broadcast. This would give your floor more impact resistance and texture needed for your type of application. I'm afraid what you where recommended will be insufficient.

At least get yourself 900 lbs of a quartz blend and do a single broadcast it into your body coat. Next day use a rubbing stone to smooth out any high spots. Then seal them with a clear epoxy. Ask them for about a 15-20 gallon kit, then topcoat. No need for any non slip as your quartz would be sufficient.

Your floor will last much much longer.
 
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Rob Beckers

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Thanks Garage Guy!
I do appreciate the advise, and recognize that you have a great deal of experience in epoxy floors. With that in mind; adding 900 lbs of sand is really well beyond what I want to get myself into. For now I think I'll stick with the original plan. We'll see how it works out. The actual pressure from a forklift is not all that great: Assuming those 8700 lbs are all on the two little rear wheels, with (conservatively) around 4 square inches of ground contact each. That only makes 8700 / 8 = 1087 lbs per sq. inch. Compressive strength for a decent epoxy should be well over 10,000 lbs per sq. inch, i.e. not even close to where it would fail.

-RoB-
 

thegarageguy

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I don't think the compressive strength is meant to be figured on that way but hey, whatever makes you feel comfy. You heard of the saying, "it all worked on paper..."


I could only lead a horse to water my dear sugerfoot.

Let us know how it holds up and how the anti-slip works with your forklift and if it is in anyway makes it difficult to clean. Keep us informed. Looking forward to some pics and updates.
 

Jaguar Fan

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Be very mindful of your potlife, especially on the 527 product. It is REALLY easy for us DIYers to run out of pot life. I'm sure you've read elsewhere to not let the product sit in the mixing bucket but rather to pour it out as a ribbon to help maximize the useful pot life.

Good luck!

Post some pics, ok? see here for directions: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=309380#post309380
 
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Rob Beckers

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Thanks Jaguar, yes, that is good advise. The listed pot-life for the 527 is only 30 minutes at 21C. Being a one-man crew I would not even try to tackle this in summer. With the current temperatures it'll take a bit longer to set up though. The plan is to mix up one 3-gal kit at a time, pour out, and use a squeegee to spread it, then lightly backroll with an 18" roller and move on to the next section. Right now I'm waiting for stuff to arrive. As soon as work starts I'll post pictures.

-RoB-
 
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Rob Beckers

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The weather forecast here has a few exceptionally warm and nice days coming up, 17 degrees Centigrade, so I've started work on the floor. I went to the ICI store yesterday, and picked up the supplies. That's a lot of (glorified) floor paint!

PB040012 (2).JPG

Next is the obligatory "before" picture.

PB030007 (2).JPG

The original plan was to grind the surface with a Bosch 1773AK grinder that I had purchased on EBay. I started doing so, but it was very slow going. A test strip showed that grinding every square inch would add up to around 6 days of grinding! Having come to that realization it was on to plan B: I first scrubbed the floor with TSP, rinsed, then on to muriatic acid, another rinse, and a power wash to top it all off. In total I used 2 gallons of acid, diluted down to 8 gallons. The result was so-so; some places were sufficiently rough, but in many areas the surface was still too smooth IMO. If I had to do the acid etch again I would double the amount of muriatic acid, so 4 gallons of acid for 1100 sq. ft. of floor (diluted down to 16 gallons). That would make it easier to just pour on the acid without having to spread it too thin, and get a more even result.

If plan B doesn't succeed, there's always plan C: Since the surface was now already prepped pretty well, I figured that a little grinding would make it perfect. So, back to the Bosch grinder. It actually ground much better this time around, much faster too. The surface layer was probably pretty hard before (this is 32 MPa (= 4600 psi) concrete with a steel-trowel finish), and the acid etch made it just rough and possibly weak enough for the grinder to get more 'grip'. So, today was spent grinding, 6 hours of it. My body hurts in places I didn't know it could, due to sitting on my knees for that time, with my back bent over. The grinder does not so much 'grind' off the surface, as that it 'scores' it. It scratches up the surface very well, making it pretty rough. I figure that's all it takes for the epoxy to 'grab' onto the surface. Plenty of area for the stuff to hold onto.

While I was at it I also used the grinder to bevel the front edge of the slab nicely. The original edge (just regular 90-degrees) gets too thin, and is prone to chipping. The Bosch grinder works well, with some caveats: The surface has to be quite flat. When it is not, the low areas won't get scored, and grinding down all the surrounding area (to make it flat) is too slow for a large surface. Also, it is relatively easy to 'tip' the grinder so its not sitting flat on the floor, especially with the power cord and vacuum hose pulling on it. When that happens it very quickly digs into the surface, grinding a groove into it. That happened a number of times, messing up my nice, flat, surface pretty badly here and there. I'm not too worried, since the epoxy coat is going to be thick and self-leveling, so it should fill out those divots. The grinder also produces copious amounts of dust. A shop-vac is an absolute must! As is a respirator IMO. Just so I would not have to clean out the vacuum filter too often I used vacuum bags. Somehow the dust very quickly found its way past the bag, and I ended up cleaning the filter every 150 sq. ft. or so (just knocking the filter while turning it, to make the dust drop out). The two shop-vac bags I filled with stone dust probably weigh around 20 pounds total, plus all the dust I shook out of the filter and vacuum housing. That is a lot of dust!

So, here is an 'after' picture with the whole setup. My hearing protection has a build-in radio. I love it! Makes time pass a little quicker and much more agreeable.

PB040009 (2).JPG

Tomorrow I will first vacuum off the surface very carefully, then sweep, to loosen up any stone that's sticking to the surface, another vacuum, and finally on to the primer coat of Devfloor 505. That also gives the floor another day to dry after yesterday's wash. The primer is water based, so it doesn't have to be bone-dry. Still, another day of drying is good.

-RoB-
 

drivinhard

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I feel your pain, I spent most of last week/weekend on my hands/knee's doing my ~930 sq ft with a 7" hand grinder as well. I rented a blastrac 10" floor grinder and it went slower than the hand, so I went back to the hand.

My observations were pretty much the same as you (doesn't get the low spots well, wants to tilt easy, lots of dust, etc)
 
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Rob Beckers

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Drivin, the "pain" is worse today, all those muscles that are normally not used are protesting! As they say, "this too will pass".

What I wanted to add: It's not that I'm a glutton for punishment. I didn't really want to spend all that money and time to buy a small grinder and work the floor on my knees. However, nobody around here has a regular diamond blade floor grinder for rent. Called a number of rental businesses, none to be found. What they have are floor grinders with carbide teeth, that take of a substantial amount of concrete. Not suitable for this task.

It is forecasted to be 17 Centigrade today (62F). So, Devfloor 505 in the afternoon!

-RoB-
 
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Rob Beckers

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Today was not a good day.
I went to the warehouse this afternoon with the intention of putting primer down. The plan was to vacuum the floor, to get the dust off, and get down to business. What I found was that those spots that were still damp/wet yesterday while I did the grinding, had the resulting slurry solidly stuck to the floor. Like glue. Really good glue! A stiff brush did not have any effect on it whatsoever. Several bad words were said.

I got the pressure washer out, and pressure washed the whole floor once again. Those places with the slurry stuck on them were slow going, I literally had to go over it inch by inch. In all I spent about 2 1/2 hours pressure washing and then squeegee'ing the floor.

The bright side of this story is that the floor is now absolutely clean! It is amazing how water sheets on it. Not just that it sheets, but it forms a thick layer that 'stands' on it. No doubt due to the rough and porous surface.

That is where it is at now. I left the floor with a big fan blowing over it. If I'm really lucky it will be dry enough tomorrow for epoxy. If not, then it'll be Friday. Today was a beautiful day, with 18 degrees Centigrade. It hurt to let that pass without putting epoxy down, and we're quickly running out of whether like this here.

Moral of this story: Do not grind a concrete floor unless it is absolutely dry!

-RoB-
 
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Jaguar Fan

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... That is where it is at now. I left the floor with a big fan blowing over it. If I'm really lucky it will be dry enough tomorrow for epoxy. If not, then it'll be Friday. Today was a beautiful day, with 18 degrees Centigrade. It hurt to let that pass without putting epoxy down, and we're quickly running out of whether like this here.

Moral of this story: Do not grind a concrete floor unless it is absolutely dry!

-RoB-

While it doesn't need to be bone dry, I suspect a week of drying would be a good thing. That probably doesn't fit with your plans, I suspect just a couple days will not dry it enough.

just my $.02
 
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Rob Beckers

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Well, I'm hoping for one day of drying... :shocking:
Actually, I'm lucky with the primer I'm planning to use. Devfloor 505 is specifically approved for use on damp concrete. Says so right on the application sheet. They advertise it that way: "Can be applied to damp concrete resulting from wet preparation procedures, reducing down time". It is a water based 41% solids epoxy. Because it is water based I suppose it will draw into the concrete surface and bind to it even if it is damp.

-RoB-
 
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Rob Beckers

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After posting the previous message I thought I'd better make sure and ask Devoe tech support. An E-mail reply just came back, stating that as long as there are no puddles the floor should be fine for Devfloor 505. In his words: "If the floor is still dark from the water but there is no puddling or ponding water.........go for it". I have not seen the floor yet today, but there is hope!

-RoB-
 
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Rob Beckers

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Alright, the Devfloor 505 is down. It went really easy actually. But first things first...

Leaving a big fan blowing over the floor overnight made quite a difference, the whole floor was dry (you can tell from the color of the concrete), except for some spots around the control joints (saw cuts in the floor). Those joints fill up with water when washing the floor, and it takes longer for them to dry. Still, even those joints were almost dry, in that all the water was gone, just a bit damp. Temperature today was around 18C in the afternoon. Just right for doing this stuff.

The primer, Devfloor 505, comes in 2 gallon packs. For my 1100 sq. ft. I planned to use 3 kits, mixing them up one at a time. Pot life is listed as 1 hour at 21C (70F), and looking back I would say that is about right. To cut in around the sides and corners I used a regular 9" roller, for the rest of the floor I used an 18" Wooster roller with 3/8" nap. Boy, I love those 18" rollers! They make work go fast! The ICI store sells cheap roller frames, and disposable 18" roller trays.

I slopped the 505 on as thick as I could with the roller (at some point it doesn't roll any more, so what I mean is that it went down as thick as you can while still rolling it). Even so, I had about half a kit left over in the end (about a gallon). In case anyone else wants to do this, 3 kits will probably get you 1200 - 1300 sq. ft., exactly in line with what the data sheet claims. I used just a single bucked, and single roller, for the whole floor. Same for the mixing paddles (used a small one to mix up the base in the pot, and a big one to mix up base and converter in a 5 gallon bucket). Even though in theory the last bit would be beyond the pot life of the first batch (and they get mixed if you re-use the bucket and roller) it all worked out just fine. The stuff is pretty thin, thinner than regular indoor latex paint, and rolls on very easy. You can feel when it starts to set up, it just feels like the roller becomes a little more 'tacky' when going over the floor. In all it took me around 1 1/2 hour to do the whole floor, and that was without rushing. In terms of smell there wasn't much to it. The little smell it had was not unpleasant. I did not use a respirator.

Since the 505 is 59% water, it cleans up well with water. I cleaned the disposable roller tray and bucket, for re-use with the epoxy coat that is going on tomorrow. No pictures at this time, as it was getting dark when I finished up cleaning. I'll snap some in the morning.

Even with just the primer the floor already looks gorgeous!

-RoB-
 
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Rob Beckers

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This morning is chilly with just 7C, so not much drying going on. I just went out to take a look at the floor, and snap a few pictures; the primer epoxy is setting up nicely, just a little bit sticky now. Once the sun comes out it'll warm up fast, and by afternoon it should be ready for the main epoxy coating.

I didn't mention it above, but I shop-vac'ed the surface one more time to get all the concrete dust off (mainly in places where water had puddled before drying up, the stone dust sunk to the bottom in those places). Here is a close-up of the concrete surface that I snapped yesterday before putting the epoxy down. It's pretty rough.

PB060008-small.JPG

Now on to this morning's picture. The primer coat actually already looks as good, and a lot thicker, than the U-Coat-It epoxy that I've used before on a garage floor. There is a little bit of wildlife caught in the epoxy, a few beetles and some flying things that decided to land. I'll remove them before putting the main coat down.

PB070009-small.JPG

I'm a bit anxious about today's job of applying the 18 mil of Devfloor 527. Not so much about pot-life, as long as I put it down quick on the relatively cold floor that should be plenty, more about spreading it evenly with a squeegee. I got a cheap one with foam edge, since it is for one-time use. It is also much lighter than the regular squeegee that I have. That's probably good since a normal squeegee would take off all the material just by its own weight, rather than spreading it. I'll report back on how it went later.

-RoB-
 

WolverineCoatings

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Hi Rob... I was just curious who you were dealing with up there... I used to make products (Tank Linings) for Devoe Canada... So, I know a fair amount of the guys up there...
 
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Rob Beckers

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Main expoxy coat down

Hi Wolverine, work is progressing. Once started there's a sequence of events and timings for the three layers, yesterday was the day for the 18 mil Devfloor 527.

First a bit about the procedure. I had a cheap foam squeegee, 18" Wooster 3/8" roller for back-rolling, spiked cleats (from ICI) for under the shoes, and 12 gallons of Devfloor 527 epoxy. First took off all the lids of all the cans, and lined them up, then mixed the base cans with a mixing paddle (that is the part containing the pigment). That way I could keep moving along as fast as possible once I started pouring epoxy. Keep in mind that I'm a one-man-crew. As it happened, the epoxy comes in 3 gallon kits, with two 1 gallon 'base' cans, and two 1/2 gallon 'converter' cans, so that makes a total of 8 'batches' of epoxy, and my floor is divided in 8 sections of equal size through control joint saw cuts. To make it easier I did one section at a time (with 1 1/2 gallons of epoxy). So for my 1100 sq. ft. floor that worked out to about 140 sq. ft. at a time. Yesterday saw nice sunny weather, with 17C in the afternoon.

It was then down to just following a pattern. Mix up one can of base and one can of converter in a pail, running the mixing paddle for 2 1/2 minutes (recommended is 2 minutes), pour out the mixture on one section of floor in a line, push it around with the squeegee until more or less even, throw some DevBeads on it (Devoe's anti-slip compound, it is more rounded than aluminum oxide or sand, but still has 'grip' to it), and finally back-roll in one direction for final smoothing. Pot life is listed as 30 - 40 minutes, though my understanding is that this is not actually in the 'pot', it is assumed the mixture is poured out as soon as mixed. I would say those numbers are accurate. Spreading and finishing one section of my floor took just about 15 minutes, and at the end of that time the epoxy was still very liquid, but noticeably more sticky and thicker than in the beginning. Doing the entire floor took around just about two hours.

I found it quite hard to get an even coat of epoxy everywhere, using the squeegee. In fact, it was surprising how thin an 18 mil coating is. It is thick for a coating, but I had to work the epoxy pretty hard to get it to spread over the entire area. In retrospect, if I had to do this again I would try to get a notched squeegee. I believe it would be easier to get a uniform spread that way.

As to supplies, I used just a single 18" roller cover, one disposable brush (for a few hard-to-reach places), a single mixing pail, and one squeegee. Even though the last batch is obviously well beyond the pot life of anything that is left on those items of the first batch, it didn't seem to make any difference. Working the last batch behaved just like the first batch. No need to go through multiple roller covers and such. For the anti-slip material, DevBeads, I used about half of a 1 quart can. The anti-slip was put on quite liberally, especially around the door areas, as we get lots of snow in winter and therefore water coming inside from shoes and vehicles such as the forklift.

Here is a picture that I took a few minutes ago of the floor. It looks pretty good I believe. I can see some 'unevenness', where material is thicker in some places than others, but overall it looks very pleasing.

PB080008-small.JPG

After finishing work yesterday, I stapled a plastic sheet over the door opening of the warehouse (there is no garage door yet, so right now it's a gaping 15' x 10' hole. Rain was in the forecast for last night, and it is raining right now. I also switched on the heater, set it to 18C. It was nice and toasty when I went in this morning, and the epoxy has set up to the point where it feels dry, but a nail will still push a small indentation into it. I believe that makes it just about right for the final coating, with Devfloor 562 polyester urethane finish, so I'll be going out now and start putting that on.

-RoB-
 
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Rob Beckers

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Top coat finished

The Devfloor 562 PU top coat is applied. So for now there's not much else to do but wait and let it all dry up.

Applying the 562 was very easy compared to the 527 epoxy coat. Pot life is 3 - 5 hours, so no rush what-so-ever. The weather has turned here, outside it is only around 10C and I am running the heater in the warehouse to keep it at 18C. At that temperature (and the very high humidity we currently have) I feel that in real life pot life is more likely around 2 hours (feeling how it is definitely tacky when I was backrolling the first batch after that time). Still, it is long enough not to be a concern.

Since the 527 I applied yesterday still had some tack to it, I used the spiked cleats to walk around while rolling on the polyurethane. For my floor I had purchased two kits, of 3 gallons each. To make life easier I mixed up one kit at a time, mixing the base first, then combined them and mixed for another 2 1/2 minutes. The mixture is very thin, with the consistency of water. To cut in around the corners I used a regular 9" roller, for the bulk of the surface an 18" Wooster was used. I rolled this on just about as thick as I could, wetting the roller, putting down one 18" line, and for the next one I would overlap the previous line halfway. For its watery consistency this really was as thick as I could roll it without pouring the stuff down. That worked out just about right for the amount of polyurethane, the first batch stretched almost exactly halfway.

While I was doing this I was wearing a respirator with fresh organic vapor cartridges (I have a 3M 7503, for its low price this is a great respirator, very comfortable!). Couldn't smell a thing! Nothing at all! Just to make sure, I lifted the respirator up at some point, to see if this stuff actually had any smell to it. Boy! :wtf: Couldn't put it back fast enough! Just to make sure anyone else trying this understands: A respirator is is essential equipment for this job! You're going to take 10 years off your life without it.

After rolling on all the product, I backrolled the whole surface, just to smooth things out one final time. That was it. The whole process took just about 2 hours.

I just went back to check how things were doing, about 4 hours after applying it. The floor looks like a mirror. Glassy. There are some imperfections, mainly where I didn't quite get the 527 epoxy completely even, but overall it looks pretty good, 1000% better than bare concrete. On the minus side, there were a number of bubbles, not a huge number, but enough for me to put on the spiked cleats and pop them with a screwdriver. Each had a little pin-hole in the middle. From the looks of it, this is the 527 Epoxy outgassing, but I don't know that for sure. The polyurethane still has some flow to it (it's rubbery right now), so hopefully those popped bubbles will just disappear into the surface. This is what it looks like now.

PB080010-small.JPG

This is a view from the side-door, looking back to where the garage door will eventually go. For tonight I will keep the heater running at 18C, then tomorrow that will be switched off. It's too expensive to keep going without a real door and freezing temperatures at night. Drying will slow down, but I have time, so I'll just let it sit a bit longer before starting to use the floor.

That is a wrap!
When it is completely dry I will snap another picture and upload it.

-RoB-
 
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Rob Beckers

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The Day After...

It's the next day, and I just went over to the warehouse to switch off the heater. The floor feels hard as stone to the touch, so the polyurethane set up nicely. Still, I don't want to walk on it just yet. Give it a few more days while I wait for the door to arrive. Since the front area is covered with plastic, stapled to the walls, all I can do for now is snap pictures from the side door.

PB090012-small.JPG

The floor is very shiny, and for the most part very smooth. I can see some places where the bulk epoxy (Devfloor 527) didn't quite flow out enough to level itself. As mentioned I found it difficult to spread the stuff evenly with a squeegee. Still, it is because I know what to look for, and someone walking in from the street probably wouldn't notice. More obvious are the 'craters' left from the popped bubbles, plus a few more bubbles that came up after I did the popping yesterday. Those bubbles left rings, up to about 3/4" in diameter, in a number of places. Definitely visible. I will have a chat with the tech guy at Devoe and see if they have an explanation for those bubbles. Something was outgassing, not sure if it came all the way from the concrete, or from one of the layers underneath the polyurethane. My camera has a really hard time focussing on the floor, also because there's not enough light to take pictures without flash. Here is a closeup, as good as I could get it, of a small section of the floor.

PB090011-small.JPG

What this shows is one of those 'craters', a mosquito on the left side, and a number of inclusions that stick out. All those inclusions (and there are many) are insects that were embedded into the coatings. I had dozens of dead (and stuck) flies, spiders, and mosquitos. No point in trying to remove them so I just painted over them (call them additional anti-slip). For my purposes neither the rings, nor the inclusions matter. This floor is not a showroom, it is meant for work, and very soon it will have lots of scratches, spots, and dirt. All I want from it is that it looks better than concrete (and it most definitely does), is easy to clean, and holds up to abuse.

So, what is the bottom line?
If you can control the influx of insects, and there is a way to prevent the bubbles from forming in the PU, this coating system is the ultimate showroom floor! Super glossy! On the other side, it is much, much easier to make a floor look good by using flakes. They hide a multitude of sins. Flakes were not an option for me, I need to be able to see dropped bolts, nuts and other things on the floor. Besides, one would need a clear polyurethane instead of the coated version that I used. Talking about PU, I would probably opt for a less shiny version if I did this again. The gloss most definitely highlights every imperfection. As for me, if this floor is as hard-wearing as it is supposed to be than I'll be very happy with it!

-RoB-
 
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