New thread - switch with built on pilot light

[theoldwizard1]

So how do they make a switch that has a builtin "pilot"/"on" neon lamp in the handle come on when the switch does not have a neutral connection.

(In the "old days" I am pretty certain they just wired the other side of neon lamp to ground. There was probably a current limiting resistor in line with the bulb as neon takes <1mA to light.)

 

[404]

LOL Beats me. Been sitting here thinking about it. Would like to know the answer as well.

 

[happy2rv]

I haven't seen a PILOT switch without a neutral. There are many illuminated switches that don't require a neutral though. The difference being the pilot switch lights up or lights an indicator when it's on and the illuminated switch lights up when it's off.

The illuminated switch apparently draws enough current through the load to light up when the switch is off but the light is bypassed when the switch is on. I haven't really thought too much about exactly how that happens before.

 

[Richard Cranium]

The paper that comes with the switch show to hook it to the neutral to get the light to light up when the circuit is off. Just replaced the light switch to one in my crawl space.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

The illuminated switch apparently draws enough current through the load to light up when the switch is off but the light is bypassed when the switch is on. I haven't really thought too much about exactly how that happens before.

It's a shunt. The open switch has more resistance than the indicator light.

Tommy

 

[MikeF2316]

So how do they make a switch that has a builtin "pilot"/"on" neon lamp in the handle come on when the switch does not have a neutral connection.

(In the "old days" I am pretty certain they just wired the other side of neon lamp to ground. There was probably a current limiting resistor in line with the bulb as neon takes <1mA to light.)

I don't know how they do it, but I can think of a simple way with a couple of diodes. You'd parallel the diodes, with 1 conducting in each direction, with the ability to handle the maximum current. Put these in series with your switch and load. So you'd have 0.7 volt drop across this pair of diodes whenever current is flowing. So now you need a light source that works at 0.7 volts, maybe a LED? Of course now your 120 volt load will only be getting 119.3 volts, but that shouldn't matter too much.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So how do they make a switch that has a builtin "pilot"/"on" neon lamp in the handle come on when the switch does not have a neutral connection.

(In the "old days" I am pretty certain they just wired the other side of neon lamp to ground. There was probably a current limiting resistor in line with the bulb as neon takes <1mA to light.)

It needs a neutral. Some installers probably cheat by using the EGC or conduit.

BTW- "old days" how old u talking? EGCs werent used or wired in until the 60s.

 

[theoldwizard1]

BTW- "old days" how old u talking? EGCs werent used or wired in until the 60s.

It probably was the 60s. Dad needed an indicator light in the house to indicate that the power was on in the garage. It took him several attempts to get it right. I don't know if neutral ran through the switch box or not.

 

[theoldwizard1]

It's a shunt. The open switch has more resistance than the indicator light.

Tommy

You need to be more specific. Are you saying the neon bulb is wired across the contacts of the switch ?

Of course an open switch has higher resistance (can't be any higher than ∞ !). If the bulb (and maybe a current limiting resistor?) are sufficiently high enough then not enough power can go through that path to "start" the load.

But why does the bulb light when the switch is closed ? The bulb only "sees" the voltage drop across the switch contacts, which should be very close to ZERO !

 

[LS6 Tommy]

You need to be more specific. Are you saying the neon bulb is wired across the contacts of the switch ?

Of course an open switch has higher resistance (can't be any higher than ∞ !). If the bulb (and maybe a current limiting resistor?) are sufficiently high enough then not enough power can go through that path to "start" the load.

But why does the bulb light when the switch is closed ? The bulb only "sees" the voltage drop across the switch contacts, which should be very close to ZERO !

I should clarify I meant illuminated switches. The bulb only lights when the switch is open. One side is on Line and the other on Load. With the switch open, the Load side sees the N through the load, but it does not operate the load because the indicator light does not flow enough current to energize it.

A pilot light is on when the load is energized. It's wired differently and requires 2 potentials, either H & N or L1 & L2.

Tommy

 

[rbrtmchl]

I'm looking for a good Decora style illuminated switch. At my old house years ago I installed a couple of illuminated switches that had neon bulbs in the switch. These lit up nicely and were very helpful in locating the switch in the dark. In my current house I installed a Lutron CA-1PSNL Switch With Locator Light. There is a faint glow in the switch rocker, barely enough to be useful. I know that I have it hooked up correctly. I have read reviews of similar poor experiences with the switches. Apparently they now have LED lights rather than neon, and the illumination is poor.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good illuminated switch?

 

[Jim greengo]

I'm looking for a good Decora style illuminated switch. At my old house years ago I installed a couple of illuminated switches that had neon bulbs in the switch. These lit up nicely and were very helpful in locating the switch in the dark. In my current house I installed a Lutron CA-1PSNL Switch With Locator Light. There is a faint glow in the switch rocker, barely enough to be useful. I know that I have it hooked up correctly. I have read reviews of similar poor experiences with the switches. Apparently they now have LED lights rather than neon, and the illumination is poor.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good illuminated switch?

Buy a switch with light built into it,run a neutral wire in the conduit.
Or use a piece of 14/3 to feed it if you're using romex.

 

[Citation]

This one connects to neutral

It would be possible to do it without a neutral by using the load as a return path. That would work if you just have traditional incandescent bulbs. It also would mean the switch doesn't deenergize the circuit so it's probably against code and I wouldn't be ok with it in general. But it would be possible.

 

[rbrtmchl]

Thanks for the replies guys. Maybe to make my question clearer:

I tried a Lutron Decora rocker illuminated switch, and the illumination is very dim. Does anyone have any experience with a different brand of Decora rocker illuminated switch, where you see a good amount of illumination in the switch? Anyone with experience with illuminated switches from Leviton, Hubbell, Legrand, Eaton, Pass & Seymour, or another brand?

 

[matt_i]

Good reason to run 14-3 to the switch boxes so the neutral is present.

I just tore out 3 runs of 14-2 in my shop before the drywall goes in just to future proof against such issues.

I'm going to buy stock in 14-3 NM wire lol

 

[ripperd]

Good reason to run 14-3 to the switch boxes so the neutral is present.

I just tore out 3 runs of 14-2 in my shop before the drywall goes in just to future proof against such issues.

I'm going to buy stock in 14-3 NM wire lol

FWIW, current electrical code requires neutrals to be present in switchboxes now-days, precisely because so many switches these days are fancier and need power themselves for various things.

 

[strutaeng]

Are talking about something like this:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...eon-Pilot-Light-White-R52-05226-0WS/202035018

I put one of these in an old air compressor I had. I wanted a reminder that the unit was "on" even if it was not pumping. There's wiring diagram inside the carton. I'm sure neutral is required for this. I think you can wire two ways breaking the brass tab.