New to welding

[SayntDownfall]

Hello all, I am new to the world of steel and high powered electric current. I actually am a frequent visitor to the tools area of the forum and after much discussion amongst myself and a friend I have decided to learn the ways of welding! I figured I would start with MIG and go from there depending on how deep I fall into obsession. My first purchase before I even picked up the welder :

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00983195000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

Any words on the reliability and/or comfort of said item above?

Secondly as many bad things I hear about the dreaded HF welders I am going to make the initial 100.00 investment to get me started on learning. While I do not intend on sticking with this welder I do feel that perhaps it would at least be something to give me a little bit of experience.Now I can already mentally visualize hundreds of forum users throwing pieces of jagged scrap metal my way but I promise I will upgrade once I see that welding is for me!

I guess what I really wanted to ask is what are some base line tools or items I will need to start on my welding journey and are there any websites that are directed towards newbies like myself?

I thank you for your time and consideration!

 

[VinDSL]

If it was me, I'd start with an acetylene torch (they're more flexible) -- then get a buzz box later.

Whatever you get, make sure to buy a good pair of leather welding gloves! And, a good slag hammer...

 

[mike13u]

If you have a helmet and the box, then gloves are the only things that are essentials. They sell cheap MIG pliers that are very handy. A pair of those in your cart will help. I have never used a slag hammer with MIG.

I will tell you also, it may not be essential to the actual art of laying down a weld bead, but you are going to need a 4.5" angle grinder if you dont have one already.

 

[Drisco Z71]

An acetylene torch is incredibly handy for cutting but it's been years since I used it for any kind of welding, and even then it was just a tiny bit of brazing. Welding steel I generally reach for my MIG welder before TIG, stick, or O/A just because it's so darn easy to use. I've always used a passive helmet so I can't comment on any autodarkening units.

 

[jcabbbang]

I would find or make a friend that is a professional or proficent in welding. They can stear you towards the right tools and equiptment and help you with arc, mig, tig, torch etc. You will be happier 220v power if you can get it where you are working. I would suggest you pruchase a mig welder (major brand lincoln, miller, hobart etc). I purchased my mig used. You can start with flux core wire, but if you get serious you will want to switch over to gas. I have a big arc welder but don't use it alot, accept on heavy repairs, it is slow compared to the mig. Use my mig all the time. Welder's are like most things you get what you pay for, but it kind of depends on what you want to do or build and what material you will be working with. All of the above from the other members is correct also.

 

[sberry]

Secondly as many bad things I hear about the dreaded HF welders I am going to make the initial 100.00 investment to get me started on learning. While I do not intend on sticking with this welder I do feel that perhaps it would at least be something to give me a little bit of experience.Now I can already mentally visualize hundreds of forum users throwing pieces of jagged scrap metal my way but I promise I will upgrade once I see that welding is for me!

This is backward for a couple of reasons. First, they do not work well and this is a waste of time, seems to be a common thought to get the biggest piece of junk to "learn" on. You already know this but going to do it anyway? Get a Hobart 187 and be done, all the related things are so expensive that the price of the machine,, as much as it seems,, is really minor and its the difference in price, toss in the difference in what you have in the HF, money well spent.
It will actually work and you will use it vs it becoming a dust collector, you can re sell for nearly what you paid for it if you have to which is unlikely,, its why you do not see many in this class used on the lists, people that get them keep them and they last a long time, a hobby guy can't wear one out. A cheap wrench or hammer is different, whole technology level of difference, they are highly researched and designed, very competitive and low sales markups, very good value.

 

[BCM]

My advice, taken with a grain of salt because I don't have a ton of experience myself:

Get a good hood. Being able to see what you're doing helps tremendously! I started with a crappy hood and I'm convinced this made it hard on me to learn what I was doing...

I would start with a 115V Mig Welder with a gas connection so you don't need flux core. I would get a used setup that includes Welder, Gas BOttle, Regulator, etc. Something like a Lincoln SP-125+. Buying used saves you from that initial depreciation and you could probably re-sell if you needed...

Edit: And, get a whole hell of a lot of scrap metal, practice a lot, and ask lots of questions...

 

[lotsoftools]

I started with a cheapo mig like that, and I thought it worked good. That is until I upgraded to a Lincoln 140. It was like night and day.
I also started with a helmet like that, and it works okay. Now that I am welding more and using a variety of processes (mig, stick, tig), I am finding that I need to be able to adjust the shade darker sometimes.

 

[A29]

Do yourself a favor and get a name brand mig. Lincoln, Miller, Hobart. Be sure to get it set up for gas. You'll be glad you did.

 

[dittle fart around]

I started with a Lincoln I got from Home Depot. Cost 450 a mig unit with argon gas. I've used it on sheet metal with gas and on thicker stuff without gas. I'm still not a great welder but I've had lots of practice. The soccer club had used goals they needed to get rid of and I cut them up and brought the scrap home. Built 5 sets of bleachers and a trailer out of the material for the cost of wire.

 

[toolman1967]

No matter what you start with, you will always upgrade as you gain competence with your craft. I started with a 100 dollar Century and now have 3 Miller welders and a Miller Plasma.

I recommend spending a LOT of time watching and reading the MILLERWELDS web site. Good info even if you do not own one of their machines. There are also some great Youtube videos on welding and components/accessories to have or use.

Good luck, it is ADDICTING!

 

[jhn9840]

This is backward for a couple of reasons. First, they do not work well and this is a waste of time, seems to be a common thought to get the biggest piece of junk to "learn" on. You already know this but going to do it anyway? Get a Hobart 187 and be done, all the related things are so expensive that the price of the machine,, as much as it seems,, is really minor and its the difference in price, toss in the difference in what you have in the HF, money well spent.
It will actually work and you will use it vs it becoming a dust collector, you can re sell for nearly what you paid for it if you have to which is unlikely,, its why you do not see many in this class used on the lists, people that get them keep them and they last a long time, a hobby guy can't wear one out. A cheap wrench or hammer is different, whole technology level of difference, they are highly researched and designed, very competitive and low sales markups, very good value.

That is great advise right there.

www.weldingweb.com
http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/index.php

jhn9840
John

 

[BD1]

hi, check craigs list for both welding helmet and machines. It would help if you posted the area you live in. Some member may know of some one selling hood and or machine.
If you think you may want to do tig welding and stick welding look for a used Miller 180SD or 200 synco. I got my 180SD with tig torch and stinger for $800.00.Miller is my favorite. See, MILLER blue thumb

 

[gmwelder86]

Like others have said when just starting out buy a decent unit, I have the HF 90 FC welder aswell as a lincoln AC/DC tombstone welder. Neither of which are great units but they will get the job done for anythign I need to do at home. Also this is mainly a personal preference, get used to using a standard hood not an auto dark. One day you will be in a position were the autodark will not work and you wont know what to do. Also the clarity is MUCH better with a good number 10 lense as apposed to a auto lense.

Tillman makes what I think are the best welding gloves on the market, get a set of light mig gloves and atleast sleeves. In the begging you probably wont be used to getting burned well welding. For me when pipewelding all I wear is a cotton longsleeve shirt and gloves. The burning sensation gets kinda dull after a while.

Alos with the welder I would suggest a grinder or 2, one for grinding the other with a wire wheel, mig welding pliers, and an assortment of clamps.

 

[sberry]

I have the HF 90 FC welder aswell as a lincoln AC/DC tombstone welder. Neither of which are great units but they will get the job done for anythign I need to do at home.

I agree that the HF thing is junk but that little AC/DC buzzer is VERY good.
As for grinders the real deal is Walmart (Kmart had them too) B&D at 30$ is the best cheap grinder made on the market, easy to get. Comes with a wheel worth about 2$ to boot.

 

[wafrederick]

Keep scrap pieces around,practice before welding on the work piece.The tanks,go to a place you can buy them.Not worth renting them.With the buying option is the tank is yours until it gets empty and get another tank.

 

[USMCdodge]

Thats all good advice with regards to the machine. I do A lot of welding of all kinds. the tools i use most are a wire wheel best attached to a die grinder but cordless drill works too also you should look for a sanding disk attachment. a good slag hammer several C-clamps and channel lock pliers for holding stock in place. Super thick gloves for MIG welding thin gloves for tig. and a good welding jacket. carhart works.

I believe its worth it to invest in a good auto darkening helmet. dark shade for aluminum lighter for steel& inconel.

 

[gloveman132]

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/index.html

This is the most comprehensive "learn to weld" site on the internet, imo.

You are getting very good advice.

 

[SayntDownfall]

I wanted to say thank you to all those who commented. That welding tips and tricks website has an amazing amount of information. I went out and picked up some gloves today and checked out some welders. I am currently looking at some of the Hobart series welders carried by TSC (Tractor Supply Company).

http://www.tractorsupply.com/hobart-handler-reg-140-mig-welder-3812040

I see this particular machine has plenty of positive reviews but it seams as though the duty cycle is pretty low. Perhaps I am missing something...

Looking over these sites TIG looks like a fun welding process with a lot more versatility. Is there a reason as to why MIG is so prevalent if TIG can do just about anything albeit a little slower? I understand there is probably a greater learning curve for TIG with the technique and all. I guess I am still a little confused as to why there are so many different processes.

 

[lotsoftools]

Just about the only way to get past the low duty cycles is to go with a bigger machine, 220v or self-generator powered. Many of those have a 100% cycle.

 

[bad_idea]

One more vote for a Hobart 187. I had the HF machine and it was garbage. The Hobart machine is amazing in comparison.

Each process has it's advantages. TIG is precise and pretty but expensive and slow. Also can be difficult to get to some weld joints with it. MIG is easy, cheaper and good quality welds. Stick welding is simple - electricity and an electrode but dirty and slow. Buy the Hobart 187 and never look back. I have had mine for 6 months and it is a good quality machine.

 

[hp246]

I started with a Miller 135 MIG. After taking some metal shaping classes, I got the bug. Now I have the ability to weld with O/A, and a buzz box too. Although a lot of guys reach for the MIG first, the gas is really versatile. In addition to welding steel, you can weld aluminum, copper; you can braze and you can cut with it.

Aluminum can be welded with a MIG as well, but to do so well, you need to purchase an expensive spool gun.

My best piece of advice is to find a class at your local community college. Try several types of welding there. Each has advantages and disadvantages. One advantage of taking a welding class is the local welding shops usually discount safety equipment and sometimes supplies to students (Yep even old guys).

I'm not familiar with the helmet you are interested in. I've got a Speedglass. By the most quality you can afford. It will make your welding much easier.

Good Luck

 

[sberry]

The 140 is a fine machine, but low duty cycle isn't really as much of an issue as one might think. For most machines 120V is just a poor power source to weld from, only so many watts going to come thru that plug in the wall and there ain't no more. Also if one is a poker player or understands spread sheets,, a 187 (which I recommend because its one of the best in its class especially considering price) is really twice the machine as a 140 for 30 % or so more money. This machine will run 030 solid wire well, gives it some usefulness for general fabrication around small shops. Even this machine is small but think of it as a F150 vs a Ranger if thats any kind of analogy.

 

[Jagmandave]

I think you need to answer a few questions before you buy anything....

What are you going to use it for? Are you going to build a hot rod chassis from scratch, or just do the occasional around the house stick two chunks together?

Are you planning to actually build stuff with it, or just patch a little sheet metal here and there?

How often will you use it? Daily, or just occasionally?

These are all really the same question, you see, asked a different way to help you figure out where you're going with this.

I have a $300 cheapie with a gas bottle that works perfectly for my around the house kind of stuff. It won't weld anything heavier than 1/4", which is fine for what I do.

I also had a good Lincoln 120V at work that was noticeably better, but then I used it for a lot heavier stuff and did a lot more with it.

My cheapie is absolutely fine for anything I do at home, and if all I were going to do is the kind of occasional stuff I do now - it's more than adequate. If I were going into business or needed to build heavy stuff or needed it every day, it would not suffice. However, I did a ground up rustoration of my Jag with it!

Figure out what you're going to do with it, then spend accordingly.

Just as there's no point in my brother buying Snap on stuff to use around the house (since he doesn't know which end of the screwdriver to hold) there's no reason to spend $1000 ++++ for stuff you'll rarely use. As to duty cycle, buy the right unit for what you're going to do with it and that will sort itself out. I've never been able to outrun my cheapie, cause I'm not trying to do production type work with it, or build a giant metal badger.......

My 2 cents.......

 

[steel 35]

Perhaps I am missing something...

You didn't miss a darn thing; you asked and you are reading / I presume you didn't buy a machine without a bottle hook up that is the most inportant thing. I started with the flux core and while building the cart had the bottle mount included and had to buy the kit. (plan on that upgrade) 20+ years later sold it and am proud to say I bought a used machine like ZT has

 

[twincam00]

+1 for a hobart, miller, or lincoln (itll save you a lot of headaches)

If you are using flux core (no gas) then you will need a decent chipping/slag hammer and a wire brush, you can also just use dykes instead of mig pliers

Remember practice makes perfect...or at least better

 

[sberry]

I have to ask Jagman,,, what heavier stuff are you welding at work with a 120V mig?

 

[sberry]

I had this 210 for a year before it hit the market in a field test for Hobart. Its quite similar to the 187, I have ran a couple 187 also and they are very good, about as good as it gets. I got a red one in this same class with a 5 speed in it, its super also, actually like it better than the 210 in the midrange, on the very top the 210 wins out in arc quality,,, by a pinch though and so slight a guy that wasn't looking for it would never notice the difference.

 

[Jagmandave]

I have to ask Jagman,,, what heavier stuff are you welding at work with a 120V mig?

Among other things I built a fairly large A-frame cart to hold some heavy machine components out of 2" X 1/4" thick stainless tubing, it turned out really well and I'm very proud of it - of course since this past July I was "retired" so I can't post a pic of it. I was surprised how well it did, frankly. I'm sure I was operating at the ragged edge of what it could do, but it was plugged into a true industrial rated 20 amp circuit.....and I never had an issue with duty cycle. I believe it was a Lincoln 175? 170? model...

It was a fairly expensive welder, about $800 on sale IIRC, and of course I used the correct gas and I've been welding for about 30 years. It would have been better if I had a 220V, but like I said it turned out well.

I even welded some 3/8" mild steel with multiple passes, but it wasn't in highly stressed structural applications.

Most of what I did was heavier SS sheet metal welding -11-16 ga stuff....