New Unit Longevity

[RoninB4]

How-D. Packaged heat pump on the house I bought 5 years ago crapped out at the beginning of last May so I'm shopping for a replacement. I'll need a 4-5 ton unit, am doing Manual J load calculations now, but am concerned about longevity of the replacement. Am glad to read of tech improvements yet longevity and build quality don't seem to be a very high priority for makers of anything the last 15 years or so. With companies changing ownership, quality standards, materials, and suppliers it seems the goalposts keep getting moved. This is not a rant about manufacturing, we can do that another time.

I'd like to hear from those that have purchased and/or installed a unit that has a few years run time on it. The longevity of older units is fairly well known, I need to know about what's being produced lately to estimate current build quality for what's currently on the market.

I already understand the installer is critical, good/bad workmanship is present with many things in this house from the PO. I also understand the ducting is critical, I'm going to take care of that myself after all calculations are done for sizing/location. This is a large, expensive project for a retired toolmaker like me and am asking for the voice of experience from the collective. I appreciate all replies, even if it's just ownership of your HVAC unit, whether opinion or fact based. Hope everybody is doing well today. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

 

[danski0224]

A package unit eliminates all of the site fabricated refrigerant lines. No component matching, either.

Build quality is probably comparable to "builder grade" traditional split HVAC equipment.

The 7.5/10 ton and under equipment segment is a very competitive market space.

I'd avoid, at any cost, so-called microchannel coils. These look like a car radiator. This might be difficult.

Is there a better warranty for equipment in a residential installation in whatever you are looking at? Register the equipment online for the extended warranty. Note that some brands may require "professional installation".

Bad airflow will kill the equipment.

Keep the condenser clean.

Size it right. Short cycling kills compressors.

The AC side still should be checked for proper refrigerant charge.

 

[RoninB4]

A package unit eliminates all of the site fabricated refrigerant lines. No component matching, either.

Build quality is probably comparable to "builder grade" traditional split HVAC equipment.

The 7.5/10 ton and under equipment segment is a very competitive market space.

I'd avoid, at any cost, so-called microchannel coils. These look like a car radiator. This might be difficult.

Is there a better warranty for equipment in a residential installation in whatever you are looking at? Register the equipment online for the extended warranty. Note that some brands may require "professional installation".

Bad airflow will kill the equipment.

Keep the condenser clean.

Size it right. Short cycling kills compressors.

The AC side still should be checked for proper refrigerant charge.

- Thank you for your input, I always like to listen to the voice of personal experience.

Side note- I used to live in Bolingbrook and Lockport in the early 70's and remember Naperville back then......changed a bit hasn't it?

 

[danski0224]

A little bit.

 

[fitter30]

Three biggest reasons ac units fail is short cycling from being oversized and airflow by either duct design or fan speed not moving enough air. Third reason running unit out of the design like in cooler weather without making any changes to the equipment.

 

[danski0224]

Third reason running unit out of the design like in cooler weather without making any changes to the equipment.

Yup. See plenty of residential type split equipment installed in commercial spaces, where there can be a call for cooling in winter (no economizer) and no low ambient controls on the condenser.

 

[RoninB4]

Wanted to say thank you (late doing so....) to danski and fitter 30 for replying to my questions and adding their experiences. I appreciate the input. Thanks fellas.

Did the J load, S load calculations and still trying to come to a conclusion on sizing. Load calc's seem to be low and one (supposedly) qualified source on the internet stated that the J load calc's ACH's/CFM are off.

 

[jjrbus]

This is disgusting, it appears that in order to keep up with EPA mandates and customer demands for more efficient units. An easy way to increase efficency is to use thinner material in the coils, now on top of thinner material they are rifling coils, referred to as microfins. So a thin material is made worse by grooving it! I am in the process of replacing a leaking 4 year old evaporator coil. Sickening! Which manufacturers are doing this and who is using thicker coil material does not seem to be available. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internally_grooved_copper_tube

 

[duneslider]

Just curious but do you know what the ACH of your house is? Or are you just guessing? If you haven't had a blower door test done to verify the ACH then any Manual calcs will just be guesses in all honesty and my experience is that if they are guessing they will go higher cause nobody calls to complain unless the units are too small and can't keep up.

To be accurate you need a blower door test done.

 

[RoninB4]

Just curious but do you know what the ACH of your house is? Or are you just guessing?

Quite honestly I am guessing. Had contacted a couple of HVAC companies in the beginning. The "professionals" in this rural area either use the Rule-Of-Thumb approach or just guess. This may be due to the time is money, laziness, or are unwilling to do all the calculations per ACCA practices. Then they send someone with little experience that has a substance problem to do the bulk of the actual work in a careless manner. Most of the HVAC companies here seem to regard their customers as an ATM machine, I was warned of this years ago by the owner of the largest HVAC supply house in the area that had many of them as his customers.

The last quote I got, after being gouged for a service call, was so excessively high (he likely didn't want the job) I felt compelled to attempt this myself. I believe in paying well for good work/services, I'm not cheap at what I do either but the level of craftsmanship in the skilled trades for this area is abysmal. Too bad, I'd have paid for this to be done but the unscrupulous operators in the HVAC industry have about trashed the reputation for the good ones too.

To duneslider- I appreciate you taking your time to reply with your experience. Were you closer I'd ask you to stop by for an evaluation/quote. As someone in the skilled trades for decades I believe it is up to us in any trade to weed out the shysters that give the rest of us a bad rep. JMO. Thanks for your reply, hope things are well for you and yours.

 

[duneslider]

Quite honestly I am guessing. Had contacted a couple of HVAC companies in the beginning. The "professionals" in this rural area either use the Rule-Of-Thumb approach or just guess. This may be due to the time is money, laziness, or are unwilling to do all the calculations per ACCA practices. Then they send someone with little experience that has a substance problem to do the bulk of the actual work in a careless manner. Most of the HVAC companies here seem to regard their customers as an ATM machine, I was warned of this years ago by the owner of the largest HVAC supply house in the area that had many of them as his customers.

The last quote I got, after being gouged for a service call, was so excessively high (he likely didn't want the job) I felt compelled to attempt this myself. I believe in paying well for good work/services, I'm not cheap at what I do either but the level of craftsmanship in the skilled trades for this area is abysmal. Too bad, I'd have paid for this to be done but the unscrupulous operators in the HVAC industry have about trashed the reputation for the good ones too.

To duneslider- I appreciate you taking your time to reply with your experience. Were you closer I'd ask you to stop by for an evaluation/quote. As someone in the skilled trades for decades I believe it is up to us in any trade to weed out the shysters that give the rest of us a bad rep. JMO. Thanks for your reply, hope things are well for you and yours.

You should be able to find an "energy improvement" contractor that just does that sort of thing and they can do a blower door test. All you data with getting correct manual calculations don't mean a lot unless you know the true value of the blower door test. I believe the blower door test is money well spent. After they give you the results they should also give you a list of suggestions for improvement, a lot of them aren't in the business of doing any of that work, just doing the testing and providing the list. Not sure what state you are in but many offer incentives for the energy audits to be done and those usually include blower door tests.