New vs Old

[Fyrme]

Ok guys. I have a burning question. While most, if not all of us here are tool fanatics, half of us like and prefer some good old vintage patina. But lets face it, sometimes technology takes front stage. Lets hear about what some of you think about the tools NEW vs OLD and back up your opinion as to why. Also use this thread to ask about a particular tool that you question.

I'll start with a few I prefer new vs old......

New light weight plastic base mobile 'contractor' table saws> old 'contractor' saws.
This is true for rough cuts and simple wood working. Throwing a wheeled 40lb saw in the back of your truck for a job is much easier than it used to be. (Obviously not for fine woodworking)

New Sliding compound miter saws>old miter saw and RAS.
Obviously here you have one saw that can do what two saws do. Weight is a factor, as well as mobility. (Again, for contractor type work)

Old (pre 1970) drill presses> new box store presses.
Heavier duty parts and higher quality on these takes the win. Obviously heavier, but they stay stationary, so who cares.

Old bench vises> new vises.
Need I explain? Ok higher quality steel better process, may were forged and not cast, and can be bought for cheaper than a brand new import cast iron model.

 

[Fyrme]

Now my question on new vs old......
Routers?
I have a new 1/2hp, a 70s 1hp, and just bought a vintage Craftsman 1hp. What is better?

 

[David W]

I think when it comes to hand held power tools, new is better. They are lighter and generally safer.
Years ago safety was a little or non-factor in design. Then the lawsuits happened and they would put some sort of "gadget" on the tool that while it covered their butts on lawsuits, it made the tool harder to use.
These days they are really clever on how they do safety for power tools.

 

[neophyte]

Now my question on new vs old......
Routers?
I have a new 1/2hp, a 70s 1hp, and just bought a vintage Craftsman 1hp. What is better?

There are a few exceptions, but the routers from many of the major manufacturers have gotten better, both in engineering, and design, in the past 10 to 15 years. Fixed base routers, with the exception of the small laminate trimmer sizes, tend to have older designs that are far less functional, and less safe, than many plunge router designs. If you don't have a plunge router, buy one. My vote for best one for the money is the Dewalt DW625. The design goes back to ELU 3338 router, the design most plunge routers made today are based on. Black&Decker/Dewalt purchased the small power tool division of the company and relabeled the tools. The engineers at Dewalt have been tweaking the motor design since then to increase horsepower. A lot of accessories are made both by Dewalt and outside companies to support it. Parts are affordable and you can generally find them used if you want to save money. Since the router is sold in both the USA and Europe it's also possible to get weird collet sizes.

 

[woody 73]

Tough question...I like all hammers new and old, but put a titanium hammer in your hands and swing it for some time, that light weight is fantastic. Although I am sure today most guys have a small job-site air compressors and they all use air guns making any hammer obsolete.

 

[djjsr]

Now my question on new vs old......
Routers?
I have a new 1/2hp, a 70s 1hp, and just bought a vintage Craftsman 1hp. What is better?

I also have a '70s Craftsman router. I still use it once in a while but it's a single speed so my newer routers get most of the work.

 

[Fyrme]

There are a few exceptions, but the routers from many of the major manufacturers have gotten better, both in engineering, and design, in the past 10 to 15 years. Fixed base routers, with the exception of the small laminate trimmer sizes, tend to have older designs that are far less functional, and less safe, than many plunge router designs. If you don't have a plunge router, buy one. My vote for best one for the money is the Dewalt DW625. The design goes back to ELU 3338 router, the design most plunge routers made today are based on. Black&Decker/Dewalt purchased the small power tool division of the company and relabeled the tools. The engineers at Dewalt have been tweaking the motor design since then to increase horsepower. A lot of accessories are made both by Dewalt and outside companies to support it. Parts are affordable and you can generally find them used if you want to save money. Since the router is sold in both the USA and Europe it's also possible to get weird collet sizes.

All three of my routers are fixed base (I think, not much of a router buff) my newest one *****. Mounted to a table and the adjustment knob is hard to use. My 70s-ish one is all plastic but much easier to adjust. And I haven't got to use my old aluminum router yet, so I can't comment.

Tough question...I like all hammers new and old, but put a titanium hammer in your hands and swing it for some time, that light weight is fantastic. Although I am sure today most guys have a small job-site air compressors and they all use air guns making any hammer obsolete.

I agree. There has been some outstanding technology advancements in hammers. I'll swing my new Eastwing all day before picking up the old iron.

 

[sberry]

There issom of both. Some designs you can not make much better, the 12 inch standard channelock and the r series vise grip as well as th hi leverage linemans plier. Thet are a trade standard for a long time, well proven, the new pairs are as good as the old. The plier is where new designs are tried to boost sales, imo they can keep most of them. I bought some new jaw channelock, would gladly trade 2 pairs for one standard.

 

[sberry]

As for a dp.. well what did you pay for it, sure you can find something cheaper today bt in same class of tool today is probably better, better metal, better control. Steel quality has zoomed upward. Now there is lots of good cheap steel. Look at step and drill bits, torx bits.

 

[Voi]

Agree with your list for the most part, although I'm not sure comparing modern "jobsite" saws with "contractor" saws is really an apples to apples comparison.

Likewise, RAS's were used for more tasks on a jobsite than a modern sliding miter saw but they've all but disappeared for a reason. Probably many reasons.

The other obvious item I'd add to your list is bench grinders. Would much rather have an older one than newer one.

As far as modern products that are better, I think modern cabinet saws with their adjustable riving knives and more efficient dust collection are a better choice. I also hear some of the newer jointers with the parallelogram table adjustments are really nice.

 

[Fyrme]

Voi, good one on the bench grinders. To get close to the quality of a old grinder, now days, you have to spend BIG bucks on a new one. There is not much technology to improve on the grinders so old>new here for sure.

The job site vs contractor saw comparison is not apples to apples as far as saw but more for the use of the saw. Until the introduction of the job saws, the heavy (but "compact" design of the contractor saws was all you had to choose from. Aside from a Craftsman 8" or something similar, still heavy and less portable in comparison though.

 

[HTGTS350]

One I know for sure is that old style sidchrome double end ring spanners are 1000 times better than the new ones. As for everything else I would have to say new is better, I do stand to be corrected or reminded tho.

 

[James_B]

One I know for sure is that old style sidchrome double end ring spanners are 1000 times better than the new ones. As for everything else I would have to say new is better, I do stand to be corrected or reminded tho.

I've had this pair of original Sidchrome 1/2" square drive T-Bars amongst my tools for a long time.

The bottom one I bought about 4 decades ago, and except for a few marks in the chrome from normal use, it's as good as new.

The top one I found on the side of the road about 2 decades ago. I assume that a length of pipe was added to one end as an improvised "torque multiplier", most likely to remove a wheel nut that had been torqued to a million foot-pounds by a maladjusted rattle gun in the hands of the last idiot that refitted the wheel.

Here's a close-up of the 1/2" square drive part of the T-Bar with the bent handle. There's about a 15 degree twist in the 1/2" square drive. I'm most impressed that the 1/2" square drive section didn't break, although there are a lot of serious stress cracks thoughout it.

The modern Sidchromes wouldn't have even gotten that far without breaking.

In 40 years, I've had one Sidchrome piece fail on me and that was a 6" inch long 1/2" square drive extension shaft that was a new (pre-Stanley takeover) design that allowed a small amount of angular offset between the extension and the socket. Unfortunately the design had an unintentional weak point. The entire line of similar designs was was pulled from the market. I broke it while I was fighting with a wheel nut ... although I didn't need to use any torque multiplying device to do the damage, just the undamaged T-Bar in the top image. I have a couple of different length extensions with the same flawed design, but they have advantages in difficult spots that the traditional stronger designs can't offer, so I no longer use them for anything that requires a lot of torque.

 

[MikeF2316]

Anything battery powered is way better new than old. The first cordless drills were slow and really weak. Then they got fast and were still kind of weak. Now I have a cordless drill that I think could break my wrist if I used it wrong.

 

[James_B]

Anything battery powered is way better new than old. The first cordless drills were slow and really weak. Then they got fast and were still kind of weak. Now I have a cordless drill that I think could break my wrist if I used it wrong.

I the first cordless drill I used was a Skil (I think) in 1978.

It had a dreadful battery life, and the batteries were all internal, so there was no quick change of a battery pack when it went flat (from memory, when I disassembled it a few years later to do a battery replacement, it had 2 or 3 "C" sized NiCd batteries), and a charge took 10+ hours. I wouldn't have tried to use it for a drill, but for the task it was purchased for (doing a rebuild of a damaged British built radio-frequency distribution unit that was held together by millions of 6BA nuts and bolts), it made a fine power screwdriver ... even if the lack of a clutching mechanism meant that many 6BA bolts were sheared off in the process.

Later on my father bought either a Skil or a B&D, that was pretty much the same, except that internally it had 5 "C" sized NiCd batteries.

My father's old 50s vintage Wolf Cub 1/4" power drill is still going strong. It's outlasted a couple of later model B&Ds. Similarly his Wolf 1/2" power drill, when it wasn't used to mix the colours in 20 litre and 200 llitre drums of polyester resin (we had a custom polyester resin colour tinting service) spent the rest of its time attached to an add on Drill Press rig. It's still running, but he's found that the small hobby sized 1/2" drill press I got him is far easier to use.

 

[ilovevocs]

I love vintage American tools and have a few fine examples in my garage, however my purchases are always driven by value. Old or new I purchase the tool with the best value as it relates to my needs.