Newbie Question about Knipex Plier Applications

[giants]

Newbie Question about Knipex Cobra and Plier Wrench Recommendations and Applications

I came across some threads here that talked about how much members like their Knipex pliers. I'm so new to this that I just learned the proper way to use water pump pliers, so please go easy on my naivete here.

I'm interested in seeing what applications I can use them for to make working on import cars, eg Toyotas and Volvos, easier.

Based on the threads, I'm thinking about these three:

8701300, the 12" Cobra,

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000X4J2HU/?tag=atomicindus08-20


---
8701125, the 5" Cobra (or 6"?)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005EXOKKE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

---
and 8603300, the 12" Pliers Wrench.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Y03968/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I'm thinking of the following uses:

I use 12" Channellock-type pliers, with difficulty, to compress old school Volvo timing belt tensioner springs for removal and installation of the tensioners. With difficulty meaning it slips off frequently. I tested out a 10" pair that I have and it doesn't open wide enough and my 13" slipped, so 12" is optimal.

But I don't usually need tools that large, so maybe 10" would suffice for general automotive?

I have access to a vise clamp at school, but would rather be able to do this at home with a hand tool. Both ends of the timing belt tensioner assembly are flat metal, but small as to clamping area, and I don't mind marring the metal, so would the 8603300/pliers wrench be better?

The other problem is loosening stuck bolts. I worked on a power steering flare nut assembly wherein I had to hold one flare nut while moving the other. I couldn't fit a flare nut wrench on and stripped the flare nut assembly several times on junkyard donor cars. I used a large Crescent-style wrench to loosen it, but think that a better tool would have made it easier.

For homeowner use, I have to install and remove washing machine water inlet hoses from time to time and do an okay job with my 12" Channellock pliers. Occasionally, I have to use a pipe wrench to fix faucet/toilet issues, but do okay there.

What uses have you had in auto applications or homeowner uses?

Thanks!

 

[M6erfan]

I find 7" and 10" are the most handy, for both homeowner and vehicle work. Buy what you need, if you need the jaw width of a 12" by all means, get them. The 5" are REALLY small. I have a pair and rarely use them.

 

[giants]

I find 7" and 10" are the most handy, for both homeowner and vehicle work. Buy what you need, if you need the jaw width of a 12" by all means, get them. The 5" are REALLY small. I have a pair and rarely use them.

Thanks.

I'm thinking that the 12" can do everything the 10" can do, and I don't envision (but I could be wrong) that the 10" would fit wherein the 12" wouldn't.

Would you give me a few specific examples of what they've helped you with? Also, are you using the Cobras, Alligators, or both?

Thanks.

 

[Jmonnty]

The 5" are too small for anything I do, if its that small I damage it with cobras.

 

[Professional Tool User]

The cobras and the pliers wrench have a few advantages over the competition. They open wider and have a thinner cross section = more applied force. They also grab on if you push on the longer handle. The Cobras can double up as a pipe wrench.

For the OP's first application, I don't see why the Cobras couldn't do as good of a job, if not better than the Channellocks if a smaller contact surface area is not a problem. For the second application, if the size of the tool is a problem, the Cobras/Pliers wrench will not give you a size advantage over an adjustable wrench, let alone a flare nut wrench.

 

[M6erfan]

Thanks.

I'm thinking that the 12" can do everything the 10" can do, and I don't envision (but I could be wrong) that the 10" would fit wherein the 12" wouldn't.

Would you give me a few specific examples of what they've helped you with? Also, are you using the Cobras, Alligators, or both?

Thanks.

I have both Cobras and Pliers Wrench, I don't own any Alligators.

I usually use the smallest tool I can for the job. I find the 12" models too large for some jobs like cramped under sink plumbing for instance. The Pliers Wrench is a great tool and has some advantages over say an adjustable wrench. I mean, they're great as a plain old 'wrench' but for instance I used mine recently to press a small roll pin in a vacuum pump handle (MityVac) and they are awesome for folding in lock washer tabs on countershaft sprockets, clutch basket holding nuts, etc. Great tools.

For me, 7" and 10" are by far my most used. The smaller and larger versions rarely see the light of day.

 

[Dingleburry]

For me, 7" and 10" are by far my most used. The smaller and larger versions rarely see the light of day.

Same. Both cobras and plier wrench.
I find the 12 is just a little harder to handle vs the 10. The 10s for me are perfect. Also the weight difference.
Honestly the 7/10 in bothe cobra/pliers wrench makes up prob 90% of my plier use.
Mind you thats all industrial use.
(They may be 6inch, but the smaller cobras and pliers wrench are the same size)

 

[BFHtime]

I like the pliers wrench because of the jaws staying parallel and not marring. I do not like the cobras because they flex too much.

 

[giants]

I checked Amazon for specifications, which are also on the handle and the neck:

8603250, 10” Pliers Wrench jaw accepts up to 52mm/2” bolts

8603180, 7-1/4” Pliers Wrench jaw accepts up to 40 mm/1.5” bolts

8603150, 6” Pliers Wrench jaw accepts 27mm/1-1/16” bolts (though it says only 1")

The largest fastener on cars I've encountered is a Toyota 30mm axle nut, which I would use an impact socket on. This makes me think that even the 6" would be adequate. For all three sizes, Knipex says that they give 10:1 leverage. Or would the 10" give me more leverage due to the longer handle length?

 

[jimmyin3D]

I checked Amazon for specifications, which are also on the handle and the neck:

8603250, 10” Pliers Wrench jaw accepts up to 52mm/2” bolts

8603180, 7-1/4” Pliers Wrench jaw accepts up to 40 mm/1.5” bolts

8603150, 6” Pliers Wrench jaw accepts 27mm/1-1/16” bolts (though it says only 1")

The largest fastener on cars I've encountered is a Toyota 30mm axle nut, which I would use an impact socket on. This makes me think that even the 6" would be adequate. For all three sizes, Knipex says that they give 10:1 leverage. Or would the 10" give me more leverage due to the longer handle length?

I have alligators in 7,10,12 and pliers wrench in 7,10,12
Main reason I kept my alligators over the cobras was that I was used to the mechanism from using Channellocks where you slide it in and can do this one handed. The 10 and 12 are used the most, the 12 is a bit large so it can’t be used everywhere.

The pliers wrench I probably use in more applications in general (it’s completley replaced my Adjustable wrenches/crescent wrenches) the 7 gets used a little bit more than the 10 but if getting only one I would get the 10.

And if you’re doing brakes with these kind of pliers I would switch to a simple C-clamp it doesn’t mar brake parts and are super cheap especially if you find a 8” or 10” on eBay.

 

[M6erfan]

I checked Amazon for specifications, which are also on the handle and the neck:

8603250, 10” Pliers Wrench jaw accepts up to 52mm/2” bolts

8603180, 7-1/4” Pliers Wrench jaw accepts up to 40 mm/1.5” bolts

8603150, 6” Pliers Wrench jaw accepts 27mm/1-1/16” bolts (though it says only 1")

The largest fastener on cars I've encountered is a Toyota 30mm axle nut, which I would use an impact socket on. This makes me think that even the 6" would be adequate. For all three sizes, Knipex says that they give 10:1 leverage. Or would the 10" give me more leverage due to the longer handle length?

The leverage they are talking about is with the jaws. They have incredible clamping/crushing power.

But you bring up a good point. Think about using a 7" long wrench on a 36mm fastener. Not a lot of leverage for turning that fastener. How long is a typical 36mm combo or box end wrench? A heck of a lot longer than 7" that's for sure.

 

[giants]

I have alligators in 7,10,12 and pliers wrench in 7,10,12
Main reason I kept my alligators over the cobras was that I was used to the mechanism from using Channellocks where you slide it in and can do this one handed. The 10 and 12 are used the most, the 12 is a bit large so it can’t be used everywhere.

The pliers wrench I probably use in more applications in general (it’s completley replaced my Adjustable wrenches/crescent wrenches) the 7 gets used a little bit more than the 10 but if getting only one I would get the 10.

And if you’re doing brakes with these kind of pliers I would switch to a simple C-clamp it doesn’t mar brake parts and are super cheap especially if you find a 8” or 10” on eBay.

Thanks, Jimmyin3D. What vehicle(s) and particular components are you using the 10" for?

 

[giants]

The advantage of the Alligators I've found is the easy single handed adjustment especially if you've used tongue and groove pliers from Channellock before. For an auto application the 7" and 10" versions should cover most of the jobs. The 12" versions are very big and won't fit well into cramped spaces.

If you're looking for a cheaper alternative Irwin has the Groovelock series and their own pliers wrench.

Thanks. My local Lowe's has the Irwin versions. My concern is the lack of durability of the teeth. This YouTube review found the teeth breaking off and wearing down after only one year:

I suppose that teeth breaking under normal applications would be covered, but reviewer said that he was removing an exhaust manifold bolt, so not sure if that's a normal application.

Although Irwin's warranty says to return it to the store, it doesn't cover normal wear and tear. Lowe's dislikes these (at least that was my experience with warrantying a Craftsman tool box that said "lifetime warranty" a few months back).

 

[giants]

There are now two versions of the 6" and probably all the Pliers Wrenches:

Comfort Grip:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/KNIPEX-6-in-Pliers-Wrench-with-Comfort-Grip-Handles-86-05-150/205333659

Heavy Duty with Nickel Plating:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/KNIPEX-...rench-with-Nickel-Plating-86-03-150/100665826

Other than $1 difference, grip style, and nickle plating, I can't find any difference.

Is it only the nickle plating that makes it "heavy duty?" What are the advantages of nickle plating?

 

[M6erfan]

http://knipex-tools.com/index.php?id=1023&page=group_detail&parentID=1368&groupID=1500

 

[ajchien]

Water pump pliers are a multipurpose tool for me. They are often not the right tool. I try to avoid using them for car work because I don’t like to mar up fasteners. I don’t think these pliers are a good way to replace flare nut wrenches, I think you’re probably better off finding some flare nut wrench that will fit in a particular automotive setting - like flex handle flare nut wrenches, or flare nut crowfoot variants.

I’ve got all sorts from those 5” Knipex, to the Bigazz 20” channelllcks. Ive got some of Irwin, Proto, and I used to have a HF version.

Except for the HF one (The metal flexed during harder use, and the tool could jump out of the set groove), I haven’t noticed any huge difference between them. Sure, the Irwin’s are nice because they have that one way ratchet-sliding mechanism to close the pliers to the right size. The Knipex cobras also have lots of selectable size adjustments. Channellock makes the biggest variety.

Basically, smaller water pump type pliers have often replaced sore fingers or slip joint pliers, and the larger ones have replaced pipe wrenches or basin wrenches for me. In my memory, the last times I’ve used them ... the 5” Knipex to hold the backside nut while I turned small machine screws to tighten, 10” to change out lawn sprinkler heads, 20” bigazz to help loosen a salt pool chlorinatior. For auto work? I think my radiator hose clamps are too big for my hose clamp pliers, so I probably used 10 or 12” channellocks to undo them.

Overall, if I were to buy them one at a time it would be 10” followed by 12”, 20”, 8” and then small 5”. I think Knipex quality is addictive. You might as well buy one of those 3 piece sets.