Newbie workbench / garage question

[rattlecan]

My wife and I just purchased a new home with a 3 car attached. IIRC the measurements are 32 wide, 23 deep, 11' ceilings, 8' tall doors.

It's a basic, unfinished garage. No insulation in the ceiling, walls are bare studs, doors are uninsulated.

I plan on starting a minimal garage refinish this spring / summer and have a few basic questions.

The trusses are 2x4 construction. I haven't taken a tape measure into the attic yet, but there is more than enough room to use the attic for storage. If I had to guess I think the peak in the attic is 10' tall... So I would like to insulate using batting such as R13 then secure plywood on top to use as a storage loft. Nothing heavy will be stored here for simple logistics reasons. Would the structure be able to support this weight?

Walls are 2x4. A brief talk with the lowes guy tells me that R13 would be my best bet to insulate... Looking for other opinions here as well... I'm trying to keep within a budget.

Flooring will stay bare because I have a Jeep that I beat on regularly and it tracks in all kinds of stuff... And I live off of a gravel road... So spending money epoxy might not be in my best interest. However, the floor has fresh sealant on it from the builder... If anyone can suggest a cheap alternative that makes the floor easy to clean I am all ears.

I recently scored some old Geneva(sp?) kitchen cabinets from a couple remodeling their house. I was told that the cabinets are original to the home that was built about 60 years ago. Besides needing a good scuff and some fresh paint they are in good shape. I am looking for suggestions on how to level these. My garage floor has some drop to it (roughly 3" drop) for drainage. I would like to know how to level these without using any shims, I would rather build a solid base. I'd appreciate it if someone can steer me in the right direction.

For the top I am thinking about picking up kitchen counter top and spraying it with clear coat, or coating it with something durable... I have been digging through the work bench thread and like what alot of people have done for bench tops... So I am open to suggestions here as well. Whatever I use for a top has to be durable as it will probably see grease, grime, and possibly a transfer case rebuild this summer. Whatever it is, I am on a strict budget set by the household CFO, and she keeps a close eye on the check book. .

Lighting will proably be good flouresant fixtures. I'll worry about lighting when I get the electric pulled for it...

Not sure on how may outlets I will have in the garage. But a few 4 gang plugs will proably be installed at the work bench, a couple singles on top of the cabinets for a small TV, radio, etc. I have 12ga wire and space in the fuse box... It's just a matter of running the wire to the box. Which shouldn't be a huge deal. Again... My last garage was wired before I moved in, so tips / suggestions are welcome.

I will not be able to keep a 'build' thread updated as I will only be able to work on the garage as time allows... And I work oddball shifts.

Pics of how it sits now. Please excuse the mess as we just moved in and I haven't had a chance to unpack / organize.

Cliffnotes becasue I'm long winded:
Need to level kitchen cabinet work bench. Tips?
Are trusses made of 2x4 construction strong enough to use for attic storage?
2x4 walls. Insulation R13?
Floor will be abused by Jeep, welder, grinders, and gravel road. Proably won't finish floor... But looking for cheap protection that is easy to clean.

Pics:

Soon to be work bench:

Wide view:

 

[dxdexter]

I recently scored some old Geneva(sp?) kitchen cabinets from a couple remodeling their house. I was told that the cabinets are original to the home that was built about 60 years ago. Besides needing a good scuff and some fresh paint they are in good shape. I am looking for suggestions on how to level these. My garage floor has some drop to it (roughly 3" drop) for drainage. I would like to know how to level these without using any shims, I would rather build a solid base. I'd appreciate it if someone can steer me in the right direction.
[/IMG]

The only way I can think of to level the cabinets without using shims is to build a new base and scribe it to the floor.
If you have a 3" drop, then I would suggest a base build from a 2" x 6". You will need a level and a circle compass with a pencil.

1. Hold the 2"x6" on the floor exactly where the front of the toe kick would be.
2. Place the level on the top of the board and have someone hold it level.
3. Set the compass opening, so that it equals the greatest gap beneath the board
4. Run the compass across the floor and board at the same time,(point against floor and pencil against wood) thus producing a scribe mark with the floor profile transfered to the board
5. Using a saw cut along mark

The board should now fit perfectly to the floor profile. You can substitute another size board, if a 2"x6" gives to high a toe kick. All the other parts of the base can be made similarly.You can also scribe the existing toe kick / base but with the potential for a 3" difference, it would end up to close to the floor.

 

[kvom]

I saw one of those laser levels at Fry's for less than $10. I think you could lay the 2x6 on the floor, position the level and draw a line along the laser beam for the saw cut.

Most of my friends with Jeeps and welders leave the floor bare.

WRT insulation, posting your location might get you better advice.

 

[dxdexter]

I saw one of those laser levels at Fry's for less than $10. I think you could lay the 2x6 on the floor, position the level and draw a line along the laser beam for the saw cut.

The problem is that the line would be straight and not follow the contour of the floor. If the floor is dead flat then this would work. Scribing takes only a minute, so you could put the $10 toward a good quality bubble level, which are a hundred times better IMO.

 

[gesoffen]

I concur with dex on this - laser levels aren't worth much (at least the harry homeowner type anyway). About all I use them for is to lay tape for masking stripes on walls.

Regarding the other questions:
1) The trusses - my house is similarly constructed (2x4 crown truss) and if you have 'em 16" o.c., you will probably be able to get away with a light load storage space. Likely, they're 24" oc which should hold up your drywall and insullation but not much else. If you talking a box or two of christmas decorations or such, thay's probably doable but a full blown storage loft would make me nervous. Also, keep in mind that unless that space is well vented, you could get attic temps up to 150 degf on a hot summer day. Depending on what your insulation goals are, you may be better served with more than R13 up there anyway.

2) Walls - R13 kraft faced is best. I'm assuming the already finished walls are insulated. If not, you may want to consider blown in for those to avoid ripping the existing drywall down. And if that's the case, just have it all blown in.

3) Leveling cabinets - as dex suggested

4) Cabinet tops - Laminate counters are probably not the best bet for a garage. Assuming they'll be used as work tops that need to take a bit of a beating (think hammers, heavy objects getting dropped, etc.) I'd suggest butcher block or laminated plywood or MDF (2-3 layers of 3/4" hardwood plywood or MDF, stained and/or sealed) as a better alternative but still cheap. Laminates are usually 3/4 thick MDF or particle board. Since they don't have a lot of mass, they'll bend or break under an aggressive dead blow hammer or similar beating.

5) Regarding wiring, obviously do any electrical before you insulate and drywall (unless you're running surface mount conduit and boxes). You can't have too many outlets IMHO. Put a good number along your workbench area. You may want to put a few near areas that will be dedicated outlets (think battery chargers, radio, beer fridge, etc.). I'd also recommend a few on the other walls for convenience (do those above the 4' mark so you can lay the odd piece of plywood along the wall without blocking outlet access). Also put a few outlets near the garage doors so you have easy access to outlets from the driveway.
Regarding lighting, fluorescents are good. You should consider putting two different circuits in though in the event that you blow one, you still have lighting from the other.
Any plans for an air compressor, welder, lift, etc. should get addressed in the wiring now rather than later. Its worth running the wire and air lines now even if those items are in the distant future. I'd at least run one or two 240V outlets to cover 40-50 amps loads.

 

[kbs2244]

It looks like your ceiling is completely dry walled. If there is no wall in the attic between the garage attic and the house attic that is dry walled you will most likely be against fire code if you put any kind of door from the garage to up there. They like to have a sealed fire proof space for the garage. That means wall between the house and garage. That is why only some of your garage is dry walled. There is living space on the other side of those walls.

You trusses will handle the weight of insulation with no problem.

You don’t show the garage sofits, but if you insulate the ceiling, make sure the attic above is vented. Both roof vents and sofit vents. If that vent at the top of the high ridge is real it is a start, but you will need more. Get a good book at Lowes that covers insulation do's, don’ts and whys.

My favorite way of handling a work bench top is not to try and make it indestructible, but accept the fact that you are going to mess it up badly sooner or later. I build a strong sub surface of 2 by’s or double ¾ plywood and then a removable top of cheap, white, bathroom paneling. All the big box stores have panels with busted up corners hidden in back that you can get for less then $5.00 Since you bench is less then 4 foot deep you can trim to fit with no problem.
I have found the finish on the panels will stand up to anything but acetone. After 2 or 3 years of average use they can be scared up to the point that they need replacing. It can be a good reason to clean up the mess on the bench.

 

[gesoffen]

Looking back at the pictures, another recommendation popped into my head - a man door on the left side of the garage. If you're in there working on a hot or cold day, they last thing you want to do is open/close the big garage door and lose all that conditioned air. A man door will minimize the loss.

Also, put a small concrete pad (poured or block) and mini privacy fence outside your new man door and stash the trash can there. You don't want to attract rodents into your garage because once they find their way in, they may not want to leave. Not to mention the stench trash will produce.

 

[rattlecan]

You can also scribe the existing toe kick / base but with the potential for a 3" difference, it would end up to close to the floor.

I should have explained better. The 3" drop is from the rear part of the garage spanned over the 24' length of the garage.

Thank you for the advise. Making a base out of 2x6 sounds like a pretty sturdy plan. I would like to make the workbench 'foundation' sturdy.

 

[rattlecan]

WRT insulation, posting your location might get you better advice.

30 Miles due West of St. Louis Missouri

 

[rattlecan]

I concur with dex on this - laser levels aren't worth much (at least the harry homeowner type anyway). About all I use them for is to lay tape for masking stripes on walls.

Regarding the other questions:
1) The trusses - my house is similarly constructed (2x4 crown truss) and if you have 'em 16" o.c., you will probably be able to get away with a light load storage space. Likely, they're 24" oc which should hold up your drywall and insullation but not much else. If you talking a box or two of christmas decorations or such, thay's probably doable but a full blown storage loft would make me nervous. Also, keep in mind that unless that space is well vented, you could get attic temps up to 150 degf on a hot summer day. Depending on what your insulation goals are, you may be better served with more than R13 up there anyway.

2) Walls - R13 kraft faced is best. I'm assuming the already finished walls are insulated. If not, you may want to consider blown in for those to avoid ripping the existing drywall down. And if that's the case, just have it all blown in.

3) Leveling cabinets - as dex suggested

4) Cabinet tops - Laminate counters are probably not the best bet for a garage. Assuming they'll be used as work tops that need to take a bit of a beating (think hammers, heavy objects getting dropped, etc.) I'd suggest butcher block or laminated plywood or MDF (2-3 layers of 3/4" hardwood plywood or MDF, stained and/or sealed) as a better alternative but still cheap. Laminates are usually 3/4 thick MDF or particle board. Since they don't have a lot of mass, they'll bend or break under an aggressive dead blow hammer or similar beating.

5) Regarding wiring, obviously do any electrical before you insulate and drywall (unless you're running surface mount conduit and boxes). You can't have too many outlets IMHO. Put a good number along your workbench area. You may want to put a few near areas that will be dedicated outlets (think battery chargers, radio, beer fridge, etc.). I'd also recommend a few on the other walls for convenience (do those above the 4' mark so you can lay the odd piece of plywood along the wall without blocking outlet access). Also put a few outlets near the garage doors so you have easy access to outlets from the driveway.
Regarding lighting, fluorescents are good. You should consider putting two different circuits in though in the event that you blow one, you still have lighting from the other.
Any plans for an air compressor, welder, lift, etc. should get addressed in the wiring now rather than later. Its worth running the wire and air lines now even if those items are in the distant future. I'd at least run one or two 240V outlets to cover 40-50 amps loads.

The attic will probably only hold some coolers, a few light weight spare parts for the Jeep (fender flares, lights, etc)

I will look to see if I've got 16" or 24" oc. I never thought of this....

The walls that share with living space are already drywalled / insulated. I have to tear some drywall out to get wire ran to the breaker box... I'll see what insulation the builder used.

2 or 3 sheets of 3/4" hardwood plywood for a top... That sounds much more sturdy than laminate. I'll keep an eye out for used bowling alley lanes, and butcher block in the mean time.

I agree that you can never have enough outlets. I like your idea of running the lights seperate from the rest of the outlets, so if my compressor kicks the breaker I don't have to stumble and feel my way to the door.

 

[rattlecan]

It looks like your ceiling is completely dry walled. If there is no wall in the attic between the garage attic and the house attic that is dry walled you will most likely be against fire code if you put any kind of door from the garage to up there. They like to have a sealed fire proof space for the garage. That means wall between the house and garage. That is why only some of your garage is dry walled. There is living space on the other side of those walls.

You trusses will handle the weight of insulation with no problem.

You don’t show the garage sofits, but if you insulate the ceiling, make sure the attic above is vented. Both roof vents and sofit vents. If that vent at the top of the high ridge is real it is a start, but you will need more. Get a good book at Lowes that covers insulation do's, don’ts and whys.

My favorite way of handling a work bench top is not to try and make it indestructible, but accept the fact that you are going to mess it up badly sooner or later. I build a strong sub surface of 2 by’s or double ¾ plywood and then a removable top of cheap, white, bathroom paneling. All the big box stores have panels with busted up corners hidden in back that you can get for less then $5.00 Since you bench is less then 4 foot deep you can trim to fit with no problem.
I have found the finish on the panels will stand up to anything but acetone. After 2 or 3 years of average use they can be scared up to the point that they need replacing. It can be a good reason to clean up the mess on the bench.

The ceiling is completely drywalled with a small 3' x 3' opening to the attic that has a piece of drywall for a 'hatch'. I thought about purchasing an 'attic ladder' from Lowes or Home Depot so it will be closed when not in use to keep fumes at bay.

I will look at the dos and don'ts before I insulate.... The living space and garage do not have a wall in the attic seperating them. I will look into proper ventilation more before I start on anything up there.

Fire code where I live is non-existant... But the area is growing and I'm sure this will change, so any work done will be done with respect to the fire code of the suburbs closer to the city.

Thank you for the tip.

 

[rattlecan]

Looking back at the pictures, another recommendation popped into my head - a man door on the left side of the garage. If you're in there working on a hot or cold day, they last thing you want to do is open/close the big garage door and lose all that conditioned air. A man door will minimize the loss.

Also, put a small concrete pad (poured or block) and mini privacy fence outside your new man door and stash the trash can there. You don't want to attract rodents into your garage because once they find their way in, they may not want to leave. Not to mention the stench trash will produce.

This is a great idea. Something I probably should have had the builder do when the house was being built....

When I build shelving I will leave a space to put a door eventually...

As far as rodents.... I wil probably need to look into lockable / covered storage of some sort for the trash cans if they are to reside outside of the garage. My closest neighbors is a family of raccoons living in a hollowed out tree. My trash pickup comes Friday morning. I learned to not put my trash at the corner Thursday evening or I will have a mess to clean up Friday.

A man door is an awesome idea. Thank you for the tip.