Next welding machine: MIG or TIG?

[Fender1325]

I'm only an amateur welder but I got the Hobart Handler 140 for now because I could flux core weld to start, eventually buy gas, and I can use a regular outlet with the machine.

It says it'll do 1/4" but after doing 1/8" I feel like it wouldnt really be too happy doing 1/4" welds. They'd be rare for me but I might come across it sometime.

That being said, I could see in the future wanting to buy a more capable MIG, perhaps a higher grade Miller machine. What my question is, once I start getting into the upper price ranges for myself (1-2K or so) would it make more sense to just go ahead and get a TIG machine? I always love the look of TIG welds. Would a regular TIG be as capable as a similar quality/price MIG?

I'd like to be able to do body panels, frames, and build tables/tools from various gauge. Perhaps it'd make sense to get a machine "capable" of up to 1/2" steel, so that the 1/4 is no sweat?

Just thinking about the future thats all... Thoughts?

 

[LXCam]

I got by for twenty years with only a good quality mig. I also got gas and dedicated liners for stainless and aluminum. But I got to admit, the aluminum was marginal at best even with a spool gun. I'd definitely never fly in anything I made. Lol. It really all depends on what your goals are. I tend to do more heavy steel work then small detail stuff where a tig shines. But I did finally buy one last year and now regret not getting one ling ago, I hate having to depend on others and always counted on buddies to do my nice aluminum work. Good luck with your choice. Btw, if you do move up to a larger mig, keep the 140, they're great for fencing work or where you need some portability.

 

[Fender1325]

I guess its portable? Its a pain in the *** to carry it 5 feet haha. That sucker is heavy!

 

[LXCam]

Or you could sport a Miller 252 around at 300lbs...hahaha. I kept my Lincoln 130 just for occasions like I said, it's perfect for field welded wrought iron work.

 

[youngnstudly]

You have to understand that the difference between MIG and TIG is like comparing apples to oranges....or watermelon. MIG is pretty darn simple and most who have never MIG welded can pick it up rather quickly and stick 2 pieces of metal together with little or no trouble. Picking up additional techniques is easy and promising.

TIG on the other hand, requires a great deal of "seat time" to become even a little proficient in (for most). The skill needed is not something that most pick up quickly, the process is slower, more expensive, etc. TIG requires shielding gas (usually Argon) for ANY welding done, whereas MIG will allow you to use flux core wire w/o gas.

If you're working with carbon steel mostly, I'd recommend a decent MIG. If you have the will power to teach yourself (Weldingtipandtricks.com has a great series of videos for this), or you are ready to take a welding class to learn the basics of TIG, you'll have more capability with TIG since you can weld most any metal with a standard DC only TIG welder (except aluminum and magnesium). Even with videos teaching you about TIG, I feel there is a lot of room for error and many things can go wrong that an inexperienced person would not be aware of. Steep learning curve, to say the least!

I don't know what you mean by "regular TIG", but if you want to weld aluminum and/or Magnesium, you'll need an AC/DC tig welder. Price out a decent 200 amp DC only TIG, then look for the same TIG that is AC and DC capable...Be prepared for some sticker shock (these machines aren't cheap)! One simple cylinder of Argon can be used for welding most any metal (copper, steel, stainless, aluminum, etc) and a bonus perk for many TIG welders is the fact your TIG is a stick welder too (just change out the leads from TIG to stick).

Then price out a 180-200 amp MIG and realize how much more you get for the same amount of money. You can upgrade a MIG for welding stainless steel and aluminum, but you need 2 separate cylinders of shielding gas to do so (not to mention the spool gun for aluminum). Each process has it's place.

Note:You WILL need to have a 220V for anything bigger than your current welder. A standard 110 volt outlet won't work for higher amperage welders. Good luck.

Andy

 

[LXCam]

Andy nailed the details perfectly. Ain't nothing cheap about going to a tig unit. The math is simple too. A basic tig will cost you just a touch above 2k. Then at that point it becomes 4-5k. A tuff pill to swallow just to play around.

 

[JeepsAreBuilt]

Or you can buy a multi process welder.. mig/tig/arc. They can be had for pretty cheap these days.

 

[sberry]

The multi are not AC. I can make it thru life without a tig, a mig really does the real work and use it on most days. A next class up mig has a lot more punch than a 140, world of difference and twice as good.

 

[pi_guy]

I have both. My tig machine is a Miller Dynasty 200 it will run on 120, 220 or 440. The tig offers me more flexibility with fixing one off items. From Aluminum to stainless it gives me more control, it is more work than Mig. If I am going to weld a chassis or a piece of suspension it will be done with my TIG machine. The only time I need the 220 with the machine is if I am welding 1/4 inch stuff and that is not normally found on a formula car. The trick to being able to Tig is learning to weld using gas, the motion and concepts are similar. The Mig I use on production stuff like machine frames and shelving and trailer repair. Something where the tolerances are greater and just going to fill it with welding wire.
But most of the time I am repairing a one off item and the tig lets you have the control with the footpedal, the rate of wire feed and how you move the torch..
But I started TIG welding in the late 70's after I learned to gas weld.

 

[EdT]

I learned to weld using gas and bought a small MIG machine about 20 years ago and it has worked OK for most of the stuff I need to do. I recently bought a 200 AMP TIG machine after a friend offered to let me try his out for a test drive. I do mostly light fabrication work on parts that are visible and one thing I never liked about MIG was that you get filler whether you want/need it or not. I find that with TIG I can do a lot more simple fusion welds with little or no filler and they look better than the MIG welds w/o any grinding. I agree, TIG is a lot like gas welding except it's been hard to learn to move fast enough. It's a lot hotter than gas and you can go much faster. In fact it comes out better if you do with a smaller HAZ and a neater weld. Like any welding, it takes a lot of practice, but for me the learning curve doesn't seem to have been too steep. One more thing I like about TIG (at least on DC) is it's much quieter and less dramatic than MIG or stick. Much less spatter as well. Good luck with your selection whatever it is.

 

[Divcod]

I purchased TIG first and then found there are a lot cases when I needed something easy and quick so purchased a Miller 190. Most of my work is on sheet metal so tac with the Mig and finish with TIG. If I only had one would have to pick MIG.

 

[freudianfloyd]

I weld for a living, and usually Tig weld stainless. I have also had a Mig, Tig, and Stick welder for personal use, and in all honesty, I would usually grab the Mig.

The biggest problem I have with a Tig, is that it does not like dirty metal, in order to get a really good weld, the metal has to be very clean, or new metal. It also doesn't weld pot metal well at all, and usually makes a pretty big mess. A Mig welder can burn through a small amount of dirt, rust, paint, etc and still lay down a nice weld which makes it really handy for repairs.

Another thing to think about it versatility, a strong Tig weld is a two hand process, one to hold the torch, and one to add the filler. This is fine when you are welding on a bench, or on something fixed in place, but if you are welding over head, or holding the piece you are welding, Tig welding, although possible is much trickier, even tacking them if there is a gap is tricky without filler.

Although I prefer a welder atleast 185 amps, a 140 Handler will weld almost anything you need unless you start welding bulldozer blades. You don't have to do the full size weld in one pass.

Not sure if any of this helps your decision, just something to keep in mind.

 

[Ohmthis]

Im going to throw my two cents in. I'm by no means a pro weldor. I have both machines, a 180 Lincoln mig and precision tig 225. I started with a smaller (130 amp mig) and a stick welder. The biggest reason for my move to a bigger mig was the smaller one couldn't do what was needed. I had the stick that could do the heavier stuff. Enter in aluminum, now that's a different animal. I bought a used tig 300/300 and cut my teeth on the tig cheap (think ~$750 for the whole set up). It was just TOO much machine.
If you KNOW you will be welding non ferrous metal then the tig will be needed. If not then a larger mig. In hind sight. A good tig can still be used to stick weld heavier ferrous metals and weld aluminum or others. You would still have your mig for smaller steel jobs and the tig for the same smaller jobs.
As was said tig is a huge learning curve. If you decide to go that route, take a course at the local CC. Good luck with what you decide. You can get into a used tig machine (ac/dc, hf start) for less than a $1000. Just have to be patient and search.

 

[AndeiH]

I have both mig and tig machines as well and am also just a hobbyist. the main difference in use is the metal I'm welding. I use mig on steel (because it's faster) and tig on aluminum or stainless steel.

As far as bead appearance on steel, you can make mig beads look like tig beads with lots of practice. there is a very talented guy on a welding forum who does amazing work.

 

[sberry]

I am a career weldor, I have then all, if I was limited to one as a home hobby deal it would be a 200 class mig running 030 solid with C25. I have one running a spool gun for alum, has replaced our tig whish is now a cart for a HH210 and a plasma.
I little different I spose if one is building specialty cars etc but I cant even remember the last time I weld a piece of stainless and alum is fairly rare,,, we got to have it but we don't use it a lot and its a kind of save *** kind of thing most of the time.

 

[sberry]

We have some use for alum as we have about 10 miles of irrigation pipe, I do repairs and some custom fittings but these are not found in most home garages. Find a friend with an AC tig fr the times you cant really do without, buy a mig which is the real workhorse for repair and maintenance.

 

[steel 35]

Come packing hundreds and you can leave with my tig, but don't touch my mig.

 

[jgorm]

I started with a torch, then got a millermatic 180 mig, the a old school dial arc AC/DC 250 HF Tig off craigslist for $500 with a water cooled torch. I now want a 110v flux welder for those welding jobs that are out in the driveway, etc. If you think lugging a hobart 140 is bad, think about needing to lug a 40lb tank along with it, and needing 220v extension cords. My tig doesn't have any of the cool square wave stuff, but it works great for what I need. It ***** that it weighs 500lb. It will also stick weld anything I could ever imagine with 250A! Pulls 80A @220v on full tilt.

 

[sberry]

I like a Maxstar better than small flux machine for portable.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Find a friend with an AC tig for the times you cant really do without, ...

So forget DC TIG ?

From what I have seen, I would not want to do "scratch start" and having a way to control the current once the arc is light seems very important.

 

[sailah]

It depends on what you are doing. I'm building motorcycles so TIG is preferable and I like being able to weld anything. But it's slow. I sold my Mig because I never used it anymore, now I wish I hadn't.

I have a lincoln precision tig 185. It has high frequency start, AC/DC and pulse. It's been a great machine and I love it. I would like to play around with one of the fancy inverter type machines but I can't see upgrading as mine does everything I need it to.

Tig takes a lot of practice. But being good at anything takes practice.

If you see yourself working in smaller projects that require more detailed welding and you want to be able weld anything, I say get a tig. Fortunately they are in such demand that if you buy it right you can sell it for what you paid for it, I paid $900 for mine and I could easily get that for mine 5 years later.

 

[zkling]

A full blown tig machine is by far more versatile. The question is do you need that versatility?

 

[Joe69]

I currently have a Century 230 a/c, 180 d/c stick welder for heavy stuff, Miller Diversion 180 ac/dc tig, Lincoln sp-100 115v mig (soon to be my Dads), and a Miller 211 mig(just bought it, haven't used it yet). If I could only keep one, I could live with the Lincoln, but would prefer the Miller 211. I could absolutely get by with a 115v mig. I did for years.
9 times out of 10, I go for the mig.
If you can keep the 140, then I say go for a Diversion 180. It opens up a whole new world of different metal types. It depends greatly on what you want to do, on what types and thickness of metals.
Like I told my Dad when he decided to take up welding, there's no one size fits all answer. What are your expectations?

Joe

 

[rsanter]

I have a miller 211 and for the average person it is the most usefull machine out there.
You can get the spool gun so you can do aluminum but it just won't be as nice as a TIG for aluminum.
I also have a miller 165 TIG and love the thing. It is an awesome machine for the money.
But I use the MIG 20x as much as I do the TIG

Bob

 

[Fender1325]

Thanks for the input guys. While itd be really fun, I think for myself coming across stainless or aluminum projects would be rare. Sounds like my next welder might be a larger miller mig.

I actually have yet to weld with my HH 140 with gas. Its all been flux up to this point. I know the gas will leave cleaner welds, but I also wonder if itll change the weld characteristics like penetration and heat.

 

[fnieto]

I use the Mig 99% of the time. Tig is a great machine for those special jobs.

 

[youngnstudly]

I wouldn't rule out the idea of a DC only TIG as long as it had a gas solenoid, High Frequency, and a foot pedal option (I wouldn't even consider getting one without those features! Especially for a beginner!).

The first TIG I owned was DC only and I still used the hell out of it even though I couldn't weld aluminum or Magnesium with it. For $500 (new with a 5 year warranty) I really couldn't pass that deal up, plus it came with the stick welding electrode holder. I was finally able to upgrade to an AC/DC 250 amp TIG and ended up selling my 160 amp DC only TIG for 80% of what I paid for it. I think I had around $1000 out for the entire setup with the accessories, consumables, and Argon cylinder purchase included.

Once you learn the basics of TIG on carbon steel and such, later learning to weld aluminum will come so much easier. Plus you don't have to be one of those guys that spends thousands of dollars on a TIG to soon find out that you don't want to learn to TIG as much as you thought you did!

There are many times where I grab the TIG torch and weld on a project simply due to the lack of sparks during welding (great for welding indoors or inside a vehicle that has all the glass, interior, and upholstery in place), the need for a small weld bead that has better penetration than MIG or stick would, or more control of the weld puddle in tight areas (or on small/delicate parts). With TIG you can produce a bead that requires little to no grinding to finish off, which is a time saver when compared to a MIG or stick bead that requires more grinding in certain instances.

Of course I still like MIG and stick welding for when I can't (or don't feel like) prepping the base metal for TIG, or I don't want to spend a lot of time welding something up (get in, get out!). And I sure as hell don't waste my precious Argon for TIG welding on farm (hack) projects and such! Options are nice to have and each process has it's place.

Andy

 

[William Payne]

The big thing here is what do you want to do?

You can get many different answers here but do you want to do average stuff or specialty.

A lot of people use the term home use but the reality is the only difference between home use and shop use is that at home you don't have to go far to go to bed.

Take me for example. I am in a gear buying phase for my garage but I am buying specialty gear that most would say is overkill and too costly.

For me though I'm trying to set up a workshop so that I can oneday do my own thing. I also want to set my self up where I can do things that other places can't

 

[rockinacummins]

I posts this in an earlier thread - I like the miller synchrowave 210. It's an AC/DC tig and stick machine. Plus you can purchase a spool gun with it so you can wore-feed weld too. Depends on what you wanna spend, and what you wanna do with it!

http://store.cyberweld.com/misy210migco.html

 

[sberry]

I would like to see the spooly for the synch. I can se3e DC tig if you are a racecar guy but I never use it, I can, I have one but don't. If a guy wants to be som fussy welder then go for it, if he is asking this question then he obviously doesn't already own a 211 which makes most the rest of them dust collectors if your intent is to get any real work done.
As I mentioned I am a career welder and a farmer, I got a lot of stuff and truth be told can do most of it with a compact wire feeder and it will soon earn its keep back if you have any use, rate of return fast,,,, used a lot
Get the feeder first and then go from there. I really cant think of a thing in the general world cant be worked thru with one. Most of it is steel and the reason a guy might need alum is he got something busted and I found that most of those can be handled spool gun if you got to have it.
We have some alum golf cart frames, the work is only occasional and we have rough service. Most of the worlds fabrication is light weight steel, the good salvage and free and cheap is steel. Dieregarding the specialty I have of aluminum pipe I had a handful of alum repair jobs in 30 yrs in fab and farm thqat were stopping or worth doing, steel.,,,,, 1000's and 1000's, a 1000 for every aluminum.

 

[sberry]

Anyone telling this poster to get anything but a compact 200 class mig is doing him a dis service. Its not a deal breaker anyway and I spose it could work but multi V is a great sales pitch but these should run on 240 anyway. A Hobart or one of the 5 speed Lincs from the box stores are as good.
Save the juice and put in an outlet, get a piece of cord, big as bottle of C25 as you can and roll of 030 solid wire. Get 2 rolls and a couple extra tips. Shop the list for a 125 bottle. Its got some legs to it and cost so much less to fill.
You will use some wire catching up and learning, after that a spool will go a long way on small work.
I am envisioning hobby shop/landscape class here, own a couple cars and a pickup,,, its the picture they had in mind for the 200 class wire feeder. Adequate, affordable, last forever.
They are a little slow but in maintenance it dosent matter much and materials are rather minor. The power demand are low, they work well with light cords.

 

[sberry]

I have a miller 211 and for the average person it is the most usefull machine out there.
You can get the spool gun so you can do aluminum but it just won't be as nice as a TIG for aluminum.
I also have a miller 165 TIG and love the thing. It is an awesome machine for the money.
But I use the MIG 20x as much as I do the TIG

Bob

This should be re quoted, its from someone in the same game/class

 

[dr_clyde]

I posts this in an earlier thread - I like the miller synchrowave 210. It's an AC/DC tig and stick machine. Plus you can purchase a spool gun with it so you can wore-feed weld too. Depends on what you wanna spend, and what you wanna do with it!

http://store.cyberweld.com/misy210migco.html

This is really interesting. This means they have decided to make the first AC/DC CV and CC machine since the old Shopmaster.

If this works, then it could be the complete welding answer for a small home shop. Especially if they put in a feeder so you could run mig with a regular gun. I have high hopes for a machine like this.

 

[zkling]

It is a very interesting machine indeed. They really built a platform that they can build upon with that machine. Unfortunately, fully tooled it is pretty high for the average homer user.

 

[McLean]

Use the welder you have.

It is sufficient for everything you have described. Start by getting rid of that flux core BS and get some solid wire and shielding gas. Then practice, practice, practice. Learn how to weld AND learn how to fabricate. Plan out and design your projects with 1/4" and thinner materials and you will be fine. Anything thicker is not required until you start building heavy equipment, tooling, high pressure gas lines, etc...

 

[sberry]

I am all for making do when its practical but an upgrade from a 120 to 200 compact feeder is money well spent. Its not oversized but runs right with 030 and makes it 2x the little machine. You can slide by, the larger wire gives it some amp punch even on lighter materials for a little speed and ease and lets you turn it up for occasional 1/4.
The electric circuit you connect to isn't maxxed out like typical 120 with welding machine.

 

[WeldTightFab]

I have a Lincoln 205V Tig which I use almost 100% of the time, I also have a 135 wire feed, and a 255 miller wire feed. That being said it all depends on the parts honestly, I love the control I have with a Tig machine but that dose not make it the fastest by any means. Go with what you enjoy, a nice machine that is a welding process you don't do a lot of will really just be great a collecting dust.