Nfpa

[PassnThru]

So - the NFPA writes the NEC. As I understand it, they are basically an organization founded by insurance underwriters. They obviously have a vested interest in preventing fires as we all do. No argument there. Also, I do appreciate the fact that if I buy a new house then the wiring within that house conforms to a certain standard of safety. So I am not anti-code. But I wonder if they are the best people to set the standards that most municipalities will adopt purely because it's the 'easy' thing to do. And I do wonder how many codes are there because a payout was made by the insurance companies in the past - but the odds that the same situation would occur again are negligible. After all, it doesn't cost them anything to write a code to prevent it from happening again regardless of the cost to the end consumer. And of course that new code is immediately adopted by the majority of municipalities.
I have conflicting opinions on this subject. I do believe that they have served a useful function and have probably saved lives over no code at all. When doing electrical work myself I try to hunt down the code to do it to that standard. I am not sure I like a private entity with a vested interest making de facto law though.
Speak out.

 

[DURAMAT]

Take it a step farther,, Look at the names on the board that are responsible for creating them new codes and you'll discover that some have ties to certian company's that make certain products and now you have to buy them products. For example your arc-fault GFI's when the code came out mandating them for residential use there was only one company at the time that had that market of making them. You bet GE, Cuttler Hammer, Siemens, Square D are going to have inside guys pushing for changes so they can promote their new products and of course they'll sell it to the insurance companys to ok it and push for it.

 

[PassnThru]

That was something that I hadn't originally considered. I do understand that although the insurance underwriters founded the organization to begin with, they opened it up to the electrical manufacturers later. So the influence can be there also. Of course, it's hard to argue against GFCIs.

 

[JBurgess]

These are the codes I have to deal with:

•2006 International Building Code
•2006 International Residential Code
•2006 International Mechanical Code
•2006 International Plumbing Code
•2006 International Fuel Gas Code
•2006 International Energy Conservation Code
•2006 International Fire Code
•2005 National Electrical Code

I forget which but one of the them requires sprinklers for residential in the next code cycle. Hopefully it will removed by local amendment when the time comes.

 

[oleguy]

there about 20 different panels writing the code.each panel writes different sections of the code.and yes a lot of manufacture reps are on there.also engineers,trade reps and unions.

 

[tigmusky]

codes can be a pain in the *** sometimes. More like the inspctors.
No codes = Haiti

 

[BioHazard]

I definately agree with having building codes that contractors and anybody else who isn't DIY have to follow. On the other hand, I think in your own home you should be able to do whatever you want without a permit, so long as it's safe. I think the code can nit pick a little too much, there are a lot of things that really aren't necessary.

If contractors didn't have to get permits, they would do all kinds of shoddy work and then try and cover it with drywall.

I wonder if there are any statistics about electrocution/electrical fires from the 1960s compared to today. How much safer is it really?

 

[dugger10]

Great topic, here's my 2 cents for what its worth. WE do need codes within reason. Whether its electrical or whatever but do permits really need to caost so much, can't a DYI homeowner do his own work as long as it meet codes? Case in point, I needed to build a shop at my lasy house. Problem was my septic tank sprinklers were in the way. I inquired with the county as to the process while obtaining my building permit. Now keep in mind all I needed to do was to relocate sprinkler heads at least 50 ft from any property line, some 1/2 purple pipe and new heads. Cost me $200 for the permit and another 400 to the plumber. I cannot even dig my own ditch and save that cost, had to pay a licsen(sp) plumber to do that. Six hundred bucks to move two sprinkler heads. I'm sorry but thats just stupid. It just doesn't make much sense to me, these cost are why some many people don't pull permits. Sorry but this is a fact. OK all you code guys jump on and start quoting all your reason why you need to justify your jobs. Sorry cou;ldn't resist. Good topic passinthur

 

[Synergy]

NFPA is not a code writing enforcement bureau. They are the National Fire Protection Association who writes suggested guidelines, which can be adopted by federal, state or local building codes. They are primarily vested in public life safety issues and saving firefighters lives. For example NFPA 704 placard is the Haz-Mat diamond telling me and my crew what fuel/Chemical/Oxidizer dangers are inside a building.

I am in CA, which is facing serious financial issues, we have known for a long time this government, local and state level is doing everything it can to generate revenue. Adopting codes, permits, inspections, etc are a revenue generator. Once you file for the city permit it is then forwarded to the tax assessor to reassess you property tax based on improvements.

Its all about money!

 

[MrMark]

Great topic, here's my 2 cents for what its worth. WE do need codes within reason. Whether its electrical or whatever but do permits really need to caost so much, can't a DYI homeowner do his own work as long as it meet codes? Case in point, I needed to build a shop at my lasy house. Problem was my septic tank sprinklers were in the way. I inquired with the county as to the process while obtaining my building permit. Now keep in mind all I needed to do was to relocate sprinkler heads at least 50 ft from any property line, some 1/2 purple pipe and new heads. Cost me $200 for the permit and another 400 to the plumber. I cannot even dig my own ditch and save that cost, had to pay a licsen(sp) plumber to do that. Six hundred bucks to move two sprinkler heads. I'm sorry but thats just stupid. It just doesn't make much sense to me, these cost are why some many people don't pull permits. Sorry but this is a fact. OK all you code guys jump on and start quoting all your reason why you need to justify your jobs. Sorry cou;ldn't resist. Good topic passinthur

I have a feeling you live in a communist state like Maine or Vermont or Mass.

Out here in the West we can still do whatever we want on our own house. The only thing I am aware of where they get you is the new gas piping systems. Corrugated thin walled stainless and some type of plastic that needs special tools and fittings. Black pipe (even factory coated) cannot be burried locally anymore and you need to pay some hack to bury the plastic pipe for you. Only licensed installer can do it because the plastic has special fittings that are heat welded. There is probably a way around it though.

 

[mrb]

look at the codemaking panels and who sits on them. UL and people from the big manufacturers.

 

[D.J.]

Synergy: Red = Flammability, Blue= Health, Yellow = Oxidzers, White = special considerations boxes.
________
WENDIE 99

 

[Synergy]

Synergy: Red = Flammability, Blue= Health, Yellow = Oxidzers, White = special considerations boxes.

Yup! good job. What are the number ratings and what can be in the white diamond?

 

[aar0s]

yellow = reactivity
www.rtksafety.com/.../nfpa_diamond_explained.jpg
the picture you have the w with the line through it is a no water building.
man, just thought about it, what ever that placard is for i want NO part of it! thats some mean stuff!
want to scare yourself get a copy of the ERG (emergency response guide, yellow book, not really sure where to get it) and look through it, some of the stuff you share the roadway with!
HA, found a online ver. http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/3/erg-gmu/erg/ergmenu.aspx
every truck hauling stuff is sposta have a diamond shaped placard on it with a number for what they are hauling, its usualy a generic description, take that number and punch it in this to find out what it is.

 

[BioHazard]

I am in CA, which is facing serious financial issues, we have known for a long time this government, local and state level is doing everything it can to generate revenue. Adopting codes, permits, inspections, etc are a revenue generator. Once you file for the city permit it is then forwarded to the tax assessor to reassess you property tax based on improvements.

That's the problem, code enforcement should not be a source of revenue, the same way traffic tickets cannot be the main source of revenue for a police station. More people would be inclined to get a permit and an inspector and do things right if they didn't cost more than the project itself...

If we left the object of money out of it, there would probably be THOUSANDS of new permits pulled that otherwise would have been ignored.

 

[PassnThru]

One of my issues is that the book isn't available without purchasing it. If it is required by law it should be made freely available. I can find snippets here and there but I should have a copy available to me if I am required to follow it.

No codes = Haiti

An excellent example.

 

[Norcal]

The State of California requires the local goverments, Cities & Counties to adopt specific codes & enforce them, the County I live in used to allow a AG exemption for structures for agricultural use, if it was 5 acres or larger all one had to do was pay a $75.00 fee & there was no inspections, it was decided it violated state law & was done away with.

Edit: The property had to be 5 acres or larger, not the buildings.

 

[Stuart in MN]

One of my issues is that the book isn't available without purchasing it.

You can view it for fee on the NFPA website, although you can't download it. You have to poke around their website for a while to find it, but it's there.

 

[PassnThru]

You can view it for fee on the NFPA website, although you can't download it. You have to poke around their website for a while to find it, but it's there.

Thanks - I'll check that out. I'd also like to be able to print parts of it also.

 

[dugger10]

Your right it's all about the money. Seems like everything is about the money, I thought goverment worked for us, that our taxes worked for us. I wonder why in any national election only about 10% of the population votes. Is all this our goverments fault or ours? Great topic for disscussion. And as far as the NFPA lable, I have some dealings with them for work, when I really understood its purposes it made perfact sense. If I were a Fireman I would really like to know whats inside that building or what that truck is carrying before I entered while its on fire. Great discusion

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Thanks - I'll check that out. I'd also like to be able to print parts of it also.

Its set up in a format that prevents you from either downloading it or printing it, you merely can read it. Remember its copyrighted material, that makes the NFPA money by selling it. It is well worth having genuine copies of it. The online version mimics the paperback edition, you flip pages just like a book.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I definately agree with having building codes that contractors and anybody else who isn't DIY have to follow. On the other hand, I think in your own home you should be able to do whatever you want without a permit, so long as it's safe. I think the code can nit pick a little too much, there are a lot of things that really aren't necessary.

Who determines what is safe? and should you be allowed to sell the home in that condition or made to bring it up to code so that some unsuspecting person doesn't get stuck with what a DIY'er thought was safe?

The reason I ask, is that my house was built in '85, about three years before the county adopted building codes, and the house was built largely by the owners. Now I'm sure they thought they knew what was good practice, and safe, but they didn't....... come close. The best part of the house is the plumbing, it was done, so I am told, by a professional plumber, and it shows, a really jam up soldered copper pipe job (unfortunately, it was soldered with lead solder, which is a semi-non issue).

Charles

 

[BioHazard]

Its set up in a format that prevents you from either downloading it or printing it, you merely can read it. Remember its copyrighted material, that makes the NFPA money by selling it. It is well worth having genuine copies of it. The online version mimics the paperback edition, you flip pages just like a book.

Is it in a locked PDF file? If so those are EASY to "open" and save or print...the local fire code is done that way too.

Who determines what is safe? and should you be allowed to sell the home in that condition or made to bring it up to code so that some unsuspecting person doesn't get stuck with what a DIY'er thought was safe?

Well, they should certainly be required to disclose they did all the work themselves without permits...and of course you should always hire a building inspector. "Safe" would be anything that follows along with the building code but might not follow it to the letter, or other standard/common practices used by experts.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Who determines what is safe? and should you be allowed to sell the home in that condition or made to bring it up to code so that some unsuspecting person doesn't get stuck with what a DIY'er thought was safe?
Charles

Yeah, there are any number of photo galleries online of home built code violations - electrical, plumbing, carpentry, etc. I think in areas that don't have inspections, it's up to the homeowner to build to the best possible practices, to meet or exceed all building codes. Chances are, most people who post on this board are willing and able to do the proper research, and have the skills to do things right, but there are a lot of other people out there who don't.

 

[BioHazard]

Chances are, most people who post on this board are willing and able to do the proper research, and have the skills to do things right, but there are a lot of other people out there who don't.

But if permits were only $10, code books passed out for free like fishing regulations, and inspectors helpful to answer questions for dumb homeowners....wouldn't there be a TON less illegal/unsafe work being done in this country?

 

[Stuart in MN]

But if permits were only $10, code books passed out for free like fishing regulations, and inspectors helpful to answer questions for dumb homeowners....wouldn't there be a TON less illegal/unsafe work being done in this country?

Possibly, but I wouldn't guarantee it - there will always be people who do things in an unsafe manner, whether it's intentional or not.

Also, don't forget that there's more to being an electrician than simply owning a code book...sure, there are some things that are easy for a talented homeowner to do on his or her own, but all you have to do is look at the welder outlet discussion that's going on right now to realize it isn't always so simple. The same thing goes for any trade.

 

[PassnThru]

But if permits were only $10, code books passed out for free like fishing regulations, and inspectors helpful to answer questions for dumb homeowners....wouldn't there be a TON less illegal/unsafe work being done in this country?

We have a winner. Or at least someone thinking like me when I started this thread.

As to the previous post about homeowner disclosure and inspections, unfortunately some of the biggest problems are easily concealed by drywall. Of course, given the current state of affairs, anyone can really do anything without an inspection as long as the neighbors don't rat them out. I have fixed a few things in my house that common sense told me wasn't right. I may have done a few things that wouldn't meet a very stringent code inspection. But I tried and I have a very vested interest in doing it right. As far as I know from talking to electricians what I have done did not need a permit. I'm not sure the codes are even enforceable after new construction. I would be willing to submit to endless inspections if the process was geared toward helping me rather than generating revenue for the municipality or guaranteeing work for electricians (which pay the city to work there which gets us back to the money thing). Of course, my initial post was about the keepers of the code and whether they should be allowed that privilege. But it's turned back to how the localities handle and enforce it. I'm not against code - it's a great idea. But I do think the whole process needs a little work.

 

[burleymike]

The problem is the special interests have corrupted the whole permit process. Today many parts of the electric code are simply designed to sell products that different electrical manufactures paid a lobbyist include in the code. Safety is not their main goal as it was supposed to be. Like almost everything else to do with the government the whole process has become corrupt.

For instance why does every room in a house have to have child resistant receptacles and AFCI breakers? Because the manufacturers knew that nobody would spend a lot more money on something that most people would not think necessary. We all grew up in houses that did not have child resistant outlets or AFCI breakers, how many of us died from electrocution? More of us died in car accidents and still do today. They needed to make their product that nobody wants to buy a requirement to force people to buy them. The heck with innovation and creating products that people want.

If you want to go buy a new $25 mercury vapor light yard light, you can't anymore. Mercury vapor fixtures and ballasts are now illegal to manufacture or import in the US. Why, because the NEMA (national electrical manufacturer association) went and lobbied congress to ban them in their energy bill (The Energy Policy Act of 2005.) Why would NEMA care if my electric bill is a few bucks more a year? If everybody has to replace every mercury vapor fixture that has a ballast problem with a metal halide or high pressure sodium fixture that costs more than 3 times the price of a mercury vapor fixture the NEMA companies stand to make a lot of money that required no new product development costs, just a few well paid lobbyists.

If I want to spend 10 bucks a year more on my electric bill that is supposed to be my choice. The NEMA companies don't care that I will have to shell out $100 for a HPS or MH fixture. They don't care that the replacement HPS or MH bulbs are more than twice the price of a MV bulb. They certainly don't care about my or my families safety either. When MH bulbs are at the end of their life cycle they commonly explode spraying hot glass all over. Not something you want illuminating the area your kids play. But it is for the good of their profit margin or uh the environment so they say.

Codes should solely be based on safety not trade protection, product sales, or any type of personal gain. Only independent professionals should be involved in the code writing process, nobody from unions, manufacturers, or any other special interest.

 

[Giraffe]

Thank you PassnThru and others for making me feel a little less alone in the world today; NFPA has been steaming me all weekend.

I believe the code process needs a lot of work, and it will only get worse before it gets better. Don’t forget we currently have both codes AND violations, even by licensed folks. I thought the codes and inspections were supposed to put an end to all of that.

Violations at our office got me looking into NFPA 2009 code requirements on sprinkler systems in one and two-family dwellings. I think three states so far have adopted their 2009 code: PA, NH, and CA. I have no doubt that sprinkler systems will save money and lives, but I do not believe they should be mandatory. I think their current literature states that the estimated cost of the system is $1.61 per covered square ft. of living space. They contend that this is a reasonable cost. Of course, they do not have to bear it.

Also, it is not mandatory codes that distinguish how well, as an example, LA can handle an earthquake relative to Haiti, but our wealth. Even without mandates, people have incentives to make their homes safer, and it is only wealth that will allow them to do so. This is an unfortunate irony, because stricter codes ultimately lead to less wealth building, not more.

Also, using the NFPA's own justification for mandating its suggested guidelines, I suggest that legislatures begin mandating that NFPA make their codebooks freely available. If the NFPA disagrees and claims that it would hurt their source of revenue, legislatures can use the NFPA's own arguments against them, stating that freely available code will lead to safer building construction. Since safety is the only motivation of the NFPA, they should not have a problem with that, right? Yeah, right.

 

[JBurgess]

I have no doubt that sprinkler systems will save money and lives, but I do not believe they should be mandatory.

I beleive residential sprinklers will save lives.

I do not beleive they will save money. Ask State Farm, last time I checked they charge a surchage of 10% for residential sprinklers.

 

[tdkkart]

But if permits were only $10, code books passed out for free like fishing regulations, and inspectors helpful to answer questions for dumb homeowners....wouldn't there be a TON less illegal/unsafe work being done in this country?

It's not all about the money, at least not the permit money, I have no problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is homeowners being held to more stringent standards and rules than the contractors, to the point of the rules making it impossible for even the knowledgable homeowner to do their own work.

A couple of examples:
#1. A few years ago a friend embarked on building a lean-to style horse shed, basically 1/2 of a pole barn. She went to a couple local building supply stores and spec'd out material package prices. She let them spec the lumber based on common practice used by contrators in the area.
Off to get a permit, which required a full set of drawings, nothing special just a basic line drawing showing the design and lumber sizes. No problem, got them from the building suppliers.
The building department inspectors then checked over the drawings before issuing the permit. When she returned to get the permit they had made a "few" alterations to her drawings.
A FEW?? basically everything on her drawings had been upsized from standard. 6x6 and 8X8 posts instead of standard 4x6 posts, 2x4 roof and wall purlins changed to 2x6, 2x6 rafters replaced by 2x10. 24" footing pads under the posts instead of 18".
All these changes increased the cost of the building by a full 50%. The building supply guys threw a fit, one of them even called the inspector and said "WTF"?? "Because I said so." It was obscene, there has never been another pole building built this way before or since, but this one is for no good reason.
She sucked it up and built it anyway because she needed a building for her horses. There has since been an identical permitted building built 1 mile away that was built to standard specs.

#2. A friend and coworker is a state licensed electrician who has 20+ years experience working for a local residential/commercial union contractor.
On more than one occasion the county building department has tried to deny him working on his and friend's homes because he is not an electrical contractor licensed with the city/county.
Ahem, "*******, my state electrical license trumps your city/county license, and here is the law that says so."

#3. April 2009 we had a tornado pass very near our place, did a bunch of damage to roofs etc. I had a local well known contractor come fix things up.
I asked about inspections, he said flat out that he'd pull the permits, but the work probably wouldn't be inspected because the inspector wouldn't bother to drive out here, and he knew his work anyway. Sure enough, after the work was done the county sent me signed off permits, the inspector was never here.

These are just 3 examples of the MANY times that I have seen this **** pulled in this county. I have had more than one contractor friend tell me that they can basically do what they want and often do not even get inspected, yet the homeowners can't get permitted to do squat themselves.

And they wonder why people don't like to pull permits??

 

[Giraffe]

I beleive residential sprinklers will save lives.

I do not believe they will save money. Ask State Farm, last time I checked they charge a surchage of 10% for residential sprinklers.

Thanks JBurgess for getting me to think a little more about that, I spoke too quickly. MAYBE not even lives will be saved in a final accounting considering the additional premium on new home ownership. People will have an additional incentive to get the most out of existing homes built to lesser standards.

 

[fireguy]

All who think building standards are a rip-off go to http://rfallenbrother.com/ Randy Carpenter and 2 other fire fighters went in and never came out. The contractor and the building owner installed an appliance that did not meet code. They spent the weekend in jail. Randy Carpenter, Jeff Common, and Chuck Hanners are in holes in the ground.

From the plaque honoring the actions of the three:
On November 25, 2002, Captain Randy Carpenter, Firefighter Jeff Common and Firefighter Chuck Hanners made the ultimate sacrifice while fighting a fire at the Farwest Truck and Auto Parts Store at 340 South Second Street in Coos Bay. They will be remembered always for living their lives with honor, courage, and a strong sense of duty to their family, friends and community. This Memorial was designed by Coos Bay Firefighters to honor the memory of our lost Brothers, and is dedicated to the sacrifices of all firefighters who have given their lives in the line of duty. The eleven trees surrounding the Memorial represent each of the eleven children who lost their Father that day.

And to the person who is against automatic fire sprinklers, when was the last time you laid a line into a burning building, with or without sprinklers?

http://www.homefiresprinkler.org/index.html A web site that explains some benefits of automatic fire sprinklers in the home.

 

[BioHazard]

All who think building standards are a rip-off go to http://rfallenbrother.com/ Randy Carpenter and 2 other fire fighters went in and never came out. The contractor and the building owner installed an appliance that did not meet code. They spent the weekend in jail. Randy Carpenter, Jeff Common, and Chuck Hanners are in holes in the ground.

Building codes stop fires the same way laws stop people from smoking pot.

 

[tdkkart]

All who think building standards are a rip-off go to http://rfallenbrother.com/ Randy Carpenter and 2 other fire fighters went in and never came out. The contractor and the building owner installed an appliance that did not meet code. They spent the weekend in jail. Randy Carpenter, Jeff Common, and Chuck Hanners are in holes in the ground.

Would it have been different if it was a fire caused by a 4 year old playing with a lighter, or if they had been killed by a drunk driver on the way to a fire??
Every FireFighter, LEO, EMS member, factory worker etc knows what they could be getting into every time we go to work. People make mistakes even when they know the rules. Laws cannot prevent that.

You can enact laws that restrict every single movement made in a person's life and it still will not prevent honest mistakes or outright stupidity. Enacting laws that prevent or restrict knowledgeable people from doing what they want or need are wrong. Outright prevention of doing work on their own property even with proper supervision is wrong.

 

[ddawg16]

... On the other hand, I think in your own home you should be able to do whatever you want without a permit, so long as it's safe.

I agree.....'except'.....how is someone else going to know it's safe?

In another thread Porsche is telling us how a home owner was his own GC...and did a crappy job....a perfect example of the DIY'er doing what he wanted without a permit....

The local citites adopt the codes for several reasons....it's not like they have the time, money or resources to develope their own codes....and can you imangine being an electrical contractor working from city to city trying to keep up with all the codes?

As for the board members being connected to the large corporations.....I see it as good and bad....one would assume you want the board members to be somewhat 'educated' in the industry......that would be like haveing decision makers in the FAA who have never flown an airplane or much less worked on one.....would you want your local plumber making those kind of decisions?

No doubt we can find issues with each group....but overall I think we have a pretty decent system....hey....my house has not fallen down from an earthquake or burned down from bad electrical....

I'll take the codes....

 

[D.J.]

In reference to the NFPA 704 square on its points (not really a diamond), 4 is the highest hazard and 1 is the least hazard! The white box contains any special instructions like the no water symbol or a special hazard unique to the location like magnesium enclosed that reacts violently with water application, ect. Also stop by your local fire station or your local EMA (emergency management agency) for a copy of the ERG (emergency response guidebook).


"And to the person who is against automatic fire sprinklers, when was the last time you laid a line into a burning building, with or without sprinklers?"

Amen on that one! God Bless our fallen brothers!

And to the guy about the 4 year old with the lighter they (lighters) should be locked up instead of unloaded guns. And the 4 yoa doesn't know any better, but the contractor does!
________
Demerol rehab advice

 

[JBurgess]

I am not against residential fire sprinklers, I am against them being required.

As often implemented the offsets to builders, diminish the benifits.

examples of offsets:

2. Infrastructure Offsets:
a. Increased Density: Department of Housing and Community Development (HCD)/Office of the State Fire Marshal should strongly consider moving the setback requirement for R-3’s to 3-feet (as allowed via Uniform Building Code (UBC)) as opposed to the new
5-foot as allowed under the IRC. In addition, the OSFM (and HCD) may wish to develop a suggested “unit per-acre” increase to promote GB and recognize sprinkler installations.
(See Phase II Code change Recommendations)
b. Hydrant Spacing (See Phase II Code change Recommendation)
c. Fire Apparatus Access Roadways (See Phase II Code change Recommendation)
d. Narrower streets
e. Longer cul-d-sacs and/or reduced turnaround radius
Note: For 2-4, SFM should develop list of acceptable specs for use by the League of California Cities, California State Association of Counties and local jurisdictions.

From:

http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/pdf/firemarshal/taskforcefinalreport.pdf

I do want all are first responders to be safe and come home uninjured.

 

[BioHazard]

I agree.....'except'.....how is someone else going to know it's safe?

Safe is just common sense. You can do a lot of things that are unsafe and not break any laws but still end up in jail. It's called negligence. Not having to get a permit doesn't mean you can still do the job if you have no idea how. Just like nothing stops people from doing that now.

How is someone else going to know it's safe? They're not. Ever. No matter how many codes they come up with.

It's kind of like how people freak out and think we need more gun laws every time there is a shooting. They don't realize it's already illegal to shoot someone, therefore, more laws would have no effect.

 

[ixlr8]

When I lived in Taxachusetts I wanted to replace a leaky dishwasher. I was told I needed a licensed plumber/contractor to install the DW and he needed to pull two permits, one for electrical, one for plumbing. My town wouldn't let me pull the permit, it had to be the contractor. It was $95 for the 2 permits and the labor quote was $350 to get permits and install the DW. That added up to more than the DW cost!! I washed my dishes by hand from then on.
Where I live in Maine, the only permits required are if what you are doing concerns the well or the septic, no electrical, no plumbing, no HVAC, no building. My house was build by the original owner with his dad in 1980. I have found electrical connections buried in the wall and ceilings that are not in a box. I had a water leak, frozen pipe burst, pulled down some sheetrock and found that there was no water/vapor barrier between foundation and sill plate. Sill plate is KD lumber.. needless to say much of it is rotting and needs to be replaced.
Following code is a good idea, but it has it's limits when the govm'nt gets involved and sticks out their greedy hands!!