Nfpa

[Giraffe]

You can be an advocate of fire sprinklers and even plan to use them yourself and still be against mandatory fire sprinkler laws, just as easily as you can be an advocate of eating healthy and exercising while being against mandatory health and exercise laws.

The costs and benefits of residential fire sprinklers and the costs and benefits of mandatory residential fire sprinklers may seem similar at first glance, but they are different. The advantage that the NFPA has is that it has more data to suggest which technologies improve safety. The disadvantage that NFPA has is that it knows nothing specific about millions of individuals and their families’ priorities. I believe the NFPA would better serve the country if it spent more money and time educating the public on the benefits of residential sprinkler systems and less on advocating mandated sprinkler usage.

I think the issue of mandated codes is a very important, particularly for the types of people who visit this forum. We are most likely the types of people who will do projects that the typical person hires a professional to do and our lifestyles are more impacted by codes that dictate what our priorities must be within those projects.

 

[walrus]

Where I live in Maine, the only permits required are if what you are doing concerns the well or the septic, no electrical, no plumbing, no HVAC, no building.!!

Your town doesn't require a building permit over a certain dollar value? I doubt that. Also if your town doesn't require an electrical permit, the State does.

 

[Synergy]

Well, they should certainly be required to disclose they did all the work themselves without permits...and of course you should always hire a building inspector. "Safe" would be anything that follows along with the building code but might not follow it to the letter, or other standard/common practices used by experts.

Unfortunate that in todays society its usually the 1%'ers that screw it up for everyone else. Its those 1% DIY'ers that screw up and now the gov steps in to make rules to prevent it from happening again.

I believe the code process needs a lot of work, and it will only get worse before it gets better.

Violations at our office got me looking into NFPA 2009 code requirements on sprinkler systems in one and two-family dwellings. I think three states so far have adopted their 2009 code: PA, NH, and CA. I have no doubt that sprinkler systems will save money and lives, but I do not believe they should be mandatory.

Also, it is not mandatory codes that distinguish how well, as an example, LA can handle an earthquake relative to Haiti, but our wealth. Even without mandates, people have incentives to make their homes safer, and it is only wealth that will allow them to do so. This is an unfortunate irony, because stricter codes ultimately lead to less wealth building, not more.

Also, using the NFPA's own justification for mandating its suggested guidelines, I suggest that legislatures begin mandating that NFPA make their codebooks freely available. If the NFPA disagrees and claims that it would hurt their source of revenue, legislatures can use the NFPA's own arguments against them, stating that freely available code will lead to safer building construction. Since safety is the only motivation of the NFPA, they should not have a problem with that, right? Yeah, right.

Excellent points. As a fireman I have experience with residential (single - multi family) High Rise and commercial. Certain application of sprinklers being mandatory is just common sense, like high rise or a nursing home, etc. Residential sprinklers should be a developers or home owners decision. With my last agency we had a new housing development being built on the farthest border of our city. Our response time to the development was too long based on guidelines from NFPA and ISO. So the city told the developer to install residential sprinklers and he did. Do I agree with the city forcing the developer to install sprinklers? Hell No!

All who think building standards are a rip-off go to http://rfallenbrother.com/ Randy Carpenter and 2 other fire fighters went in and never came out. The contractor and the building owner installed an appliance that did not meet code. They spent the weekend in jail. Randy Carpenter, Jeff Common, and Chuck Hanners are in holes in the ground.

From the plaque honoring the actions of the three:
On November 25, 2002, Captain Randy Carpenter, Firefighter Jeff Common and Firefighter Chuck Hanners made the ultimate sacrifice while fighting a fire at the Farwest Truck and Auto Parts Store at 340 South Second Street in Coos Bay. They will be remembered always for living their lives with honor, courage, and a strong sense of duty to their family, friends and community. This Memorial was designed by Coos Bay Firefighters to honor the memory of our lost Brothers, and is dedicated to the sacrifices of all firefighters who have given their lives in the line of duty. The eleven trees surrounding the Memorial represent each of the eleven children who lost their Father that day.

And to the person who is against automatic fire sprinklers, when was the last time you laid a line into a burning building, with or without sprinklers?

http://www.homefiresprinkler.org/index.html A web site that explains some benefits of automatic fire sprinklers in the home.

I am sorry for your loss, we all have lost brothers in the line of duty. I am against mandatory residential fire sprinklers for many reasons. The main reason is its my own property and I should have the liberty to choose the extra cost if I want. Which leads to another point, this is just more government control over your lives. Just like PG&E has started installing SmartMeters. I have pulled lots of hose into many buildings on fire, I prefer ones without sprinklers. This may sound sick and twisted, but I became a fireman to "fight fire". I enjoy going into burning building, get to the seat of the fire and put it out. My current dept is very aggressive and we save homes and limit the damage to the structure. I cant remember the last time my dept had a total loss on a structure fire.

 

[oleguy]

IMO sprinklers will most likely serve to good purpose but,when activated they run till they are turned off.hence you will save the structure but will loose most contence.then you will probably have to have them tested twice a year by a licenced inspector at2-3 hundred bucks each time to keep insurance good.SO no to mandatory sprinkler systems.

 

[ixlr8]

Your town doesn't require a building permit over a certain dollar value? I doubt that. Also if your town doesn't require an electrical permit, the State does.

I was just going by what our code enforcement officer told me. Does that mean I need to go see somebody in Augusta to get an electical permit??

 

[fyrlt1]

[/U]

This may sound sick and twisted, but I became a fireman to "fight fire". I enjoy going into burning building, get to the seat of the fire and put it out.





At the very least shortsighted and self aggrandizing. Sprinklers or anything else called for in NFPA are not addressed with your funfactor in mind but to provide enhanced life safety for the occupants. If such a system contains a fire and enables them to escape a burning structure prior to your arrival, then you do not have to expend resousces on search and rescue but can concentrate on firefighting. I hope prioritizing public safety above your thrillseeking is not viewed as intrusive.

(BTW, professionals these days refer to themselves as 'Firefighters", not 'firemen'. this distinguishes them from the guys that stoke the furnace on steam locomotives/ships.)

Many of the complaints I read here are 'local' in nature and are not attributable directly to NFPA, (such as who can and cannot perform certain tasks). A local jurisdiction can adopt 'standards' written by NFPA but then can enact local ordinances based on local needs/conditions that deal with how they enforce them.

The process NFPA uses for writing their standards is not perfect. I have witnessed it in action and there is a lot of room for improvement. Having industry 'insiders' involved is a double edged sword. I could go on at length about the changes I feel they could/should implement. But know this;
the standards they enact are, in large part, reactionary. They are based on the prior safety history of the industry that is addressed in the individual volumes. (For example, google: 'triangle factory fire', or 'cocoanut grove fire'.)This means that someone, somewhere, at some time may have paid a dear price to bring an issue to the forefront and cause it to be included in the NFPA standard. You may not like having to abide by it but Just be glad you are not serving as that example. Also know that every time you go to a restaurant, theater, sporting event, mall, office building, or workplace you are reaping the safety benefits of these standards.

 

[walrus]

I was just going by what our code enforcement officer told me. Does that mean I need to go see somebody in Augusta to get an electical permit??

You don't need to go see anyone, call the state electricians examining board or go on their website
http://www.maine.gov/pfr/professionallicensing/professions/electricians/staff.htm Let them tell you what to do

You may not have to do anything as they're apt to blow you off. There are only 4 or 5 inspectors for the whole state and they sometimes just say go ahead and do it
If your code enforcement officer said no problems with no permit, I guess thats the rule in your town. Technically I doubt he's right but so be it

 

[Lu47Dan]

Hmmm......
Sprinklers for the home. I can see where sprinklers in a single family home within city limits where a public water system feeds the home could be a good thing, BUT there are a lot of homes that are on wells. When the power goes out the pump shuts down and the sprinklers stop working. I was talking to one of the Local Volunteer Firemen here and they want a power disconnect switch on the out side of the house here. When they roll up then they can shut off the power to the house to make it safer for them. It would shut down the pump making the sprinklers inoperable. Most home well pumps top out at 7-1/2 to 10 gpm, making the maximum number of heads 3 to 4 , if I the 2-1/2 gpm per head figure that I remember is correct.

The U.S. has gotten over run with codes, some are good, some are shaky, and some are just plain stupid.
I work as a pipefitter and I am a Medical Gases certifiied Brazer, I am required to keep up my certs and attend classes every so often to be current on the code. I agree that the Medical gas codes are a good thing, but sprinkler for single family homes are just going too far. Commercial, Residential Rentals, Schools and Government buildings sprinkler systems are different from your home.
JMTC, Dan