To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

NM-B Wire Installation?

Beemer

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Messages
1,424
Location
Northeast
Can an NM-B (AWG 6 cu 3 w.AWG 10 ground) wire be installed on the bottoms of floor joists above the unfinished basement traversing the joist spaces?
Can the routing be at an angle (not perpendicular) to the joists so the contact points are greater than 16".
What is the fastening spacing requirement?
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

dave*99

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
4,282
Location
Coastal NJ
Can an NM-B (AWG 6 cu 3 w.AWG 10 ground) wire be installed on the bottoms of floor joists above the unfinished basement traversing the joist spaces?
Can the routing be at an angle (not perpendicular) to the joists so the contact points are greater than 16".
What is the fastening spacing requirement?
Edited in recognition of post 12.
I ran 6/3 Romex On the bottom of floor joists along the block foundation. It was neat and protected. Tucked it just above the block wall near the sill plate.
 
Last edited:

reader2580

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
14,571
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Do you not want to drill holes in the joists? That is what I have done in joists when wiring my house. I just make sure to stay the required distance from the edges of the joists.
 
OP
B

Beemer

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Messages
1,424
Location
Northeast
Do you not want to drill holes in the joists? That is what I have done in joists when wiring my house. I just make sure to stay the required distance from the edges of the joists.
That's a pretty stiff and long snake to be wrestling with for what may be an 80 foot run so that would be a pretty tough undertaking.
Some searches seem to indicate a relaxed requirement for heavy wires but I don't trust search results since the computers were put in charge, so the posting here.

I am also curious what method of splicing the three #6 wires, as well as the ground, would be good.
 
Last edited:
OP
B

Beemer

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Messages
1,424
Location
Northeast
no.

either drill holes thru the joists or run on top with rat runners.
What do you mean "run on top with rat runners"?
I am not understanding but do you mean run support boards at bottoms of joists and wire under those?

Is there a different requirement for heavy wires like the 6-3+ wires of interest?
 
Last edited:

dave*99

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
4,282
Location
Coastal NJ
Is there a different requirement for heavy wires like the 6-3+ wires of interest?
You could get more informed answers from the forum if you describe the whole project. Yes it can be spliced. But maybe there is a clean solution without splices.
What are you installing?
 
OP
B

Beemer

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Messages
1,424
Location
Northeast
You could get more informed answers from the forum if you describe the whole project. Yes it can be spliced. But maybe there is a clean solution without splices.
Retrofit upgrade wire from main panel in the existing basement (under floor above) to a secondary panel at an addition.
Splice is definitely needed for wire material on hand.

Curious about the code intention regarding protection from damage. In an unfinished space, it seems that running through joists or under joists both may be at risk of someone hanging something from the wire in an exposed condition.
Is there a different kind of damage of concern?
 
Last edited:

dave*99

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
4,282
Location
Coastal NJ
Retrofit upgrade wire from main panel in the existing basement to a secondary panel at an addition.
Splice is definitely needed for materials on hand.
3 splice options come to mind. Wire nuts, split bolts and Polaris connectors.
 
OP
B

Beemer

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Messages
1,424
Location
Northeast
3 splice options come to mind. Wire nuts, split bolts and Polaris connectors.
I looked a bit at Polaris connectors. Would that require three separate connectors, one for each power line, or four to include the ground?
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

wyliesdiesels

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
20,073
Location
Modesto, CA
What do you mean "run on top with rat runners"?
I am not understanding but do you mean run support boards at bottoms of joists and wire under those?

Is there a different requirement for heavy wires like the 6-3+ wires of interest?

"rat runners" aka running boards are strips of wood run along the top of joists that you staple the NM-b on top of. they go on top of the joist not underneath for small conductor cables smaller than what is listed below.

NEC code 334.15(c) allows cables larger than 2 #6 or 3 #8 to be ran on the underside of the joist
 
OP
B

Beemer

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Messages
1,424
Location
Northeast
"rat runners" aka running boards are strips of wood run along the top of joists that you staple the NM-b on top of. they go on top of the joist not underneath for small conductor cables smaller than what is listed below.

NEC code 334.15(c) allows cables larger than 2 #6 or 3 #8 to be ran on the underside of the joist
There is confusion in the "rat runners" description given but the Code reference section diagram shows what I understand.
The runners are shown on the bottoms of joists for the smaller wires only and that is what is applicable.

Thanks for the Code reference.
 
Last edited:

mm08822

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
6,051
Location
NJ
Since your cable is larger than 2 #6 or 3 #8 it can be run on the underside of the joists w/o runner boards or adjacent nailers. Must be secured at intervals no more than 4.5' and no more than 12" at box entries. I would go tighter than 4.5', maybe every other joist. It depends how well it follows the joist contour......could be every joist to be neat.
 
OP
B

Beemer

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Messages
1,424
Location
Northeast
Since your cable is larger than 2 #6 or 3 #8 it can be run on the underside of the joists w/o runner boards or adjacent nailers. Must be secured at intervals no more than 4.5' and no more than 12" at box entries. I would go tighter than 4.5', maybe every other joist. It depends how well it follows the joist contour......could be every joist to be neat.
Also helpful.
The last piece of that detail is whether the angle of the cable to the joists is restricted to 90 degrees.
Diagonal layout would economize on amount of cable and there is no question that the attachments can be smaller than 4.5 feet.
 

manwithtools

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
14,111
Location
Lebanon, TN
"rat runners" aka running boards are strips of wood run along the top of joists that you staple the NM-b on top of. they go on top of the joist not underneath for small conductor cables smaller than what is listed below.
Some terminology confusion here, OP is talking about wire being under "Floor" joists. "Rat Runners" as you pointed out go on top of joists, specifically "ceiling" joists. So one is under the floor and the other is above the ceiling. In anycase, it appears code has him covered in this application with no additional support structure required.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom