No Control Joints in Garage Floor

[49thparallel]

Help! My contractor neglected to put control joints in our large 3 car garage floor. It's a large monolithic pour and I'm getting some hairline cracks in various places. The house is almost one year old and I'm concerned about the future of this floor. The contractor has accepted responsibility for the mistake and has offered to do whatever I want to make it right. I'm just not sure what that is. He indicated that it wouldn't hurt to saw cut some joints but I don't know if that would just make the problem worse. I'm guessing that these are shrinkage cracks and that making cuts at this point probably won't have much effect since that's usually done very soon after the pour to control where the cracks occur due to tensile stress. I'm considering having them put epoxy on the floor and the contractor mentioned that they use a water soluble product (Quikcrete I think) but I'm leaning toward Duraltex, which is 100 percent solids. I would appreciate any well informed advice on how to proceed.

 

[Highlux]

If a concrete man forgets control joints....he isnt a concrete man.

Id have it torn out and replaced. Who knows how deep it is? rebar in there? what else did he neglect?

Have hime hire a pro this time. You are lucky he willing to work with you.
Make him eat his mistake.

 

[kd3pc]

I would cut control joints at least, as to the cracks you already have - is it surface scaling or a true crack? Scaling is nigh impossible to "fix". I don't think he neglected them....

I would get as much money back from this contractor and find one who knows his trade. I would certainly not waste money on epoxy until you understand the "why" of these things happening.

Water soluble and epoxy are seldom used in the same breath as decent floor coverings.

You may want to read the many epoxy floor posts here, or contact one of the several vendors who post here, to help you get the best floor covering you can.

 

[radrush]

IMO, tearing it out is just way way overboard.

Slabs crack for a variety of reasons: lack of properly placed control joints, poor soil subgrade, improper finishing, and lack of proper curing.

Sika makes a "crack healer" product called Sikadur 55 SLV. It's the kind of product used on slabs with lots of hairline cracks (also known as non-dynamic cracks). It's super low viscosity, thinner than water, and gets in, fills up, and seals all these small cracks and basically glues everything back together.

If you don't have any cracks larger than "hairline" then you probably don't need to saw in any joints at this late stage.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

I would cut control joints at least, as to the cracks you already have - is it surface scaling or a true crack? Scaling is nigh impossible to "fix". I don't think he neglected them....

I would get as much money back from this contractor and find one who knows his trade. I would certainly not waste money on epoxy until you understand the "why" of these things happening.

Water soluble and epoxy are seldom used in the same breath as decent floor coverings.

You may want to read the many epoxy floor posts here, or contact one of the several vendors who post here, to help you get the best floor covering you can.

10-4!

Your best bet is to prime this floor with a crack bridging primer prior to coating with your choice of solids epoxy coatings.

Our offering is linked below, there are others available in the marketplace.
Link:
http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/fl...5.html?zenid=302bd2b132ee81cafa6ca5e878788400

 

[shaun oriold1]

If a concrete man forgets control joints....he isnt a concrete man.

Id have it torn out and replaced. Who knows how deep it is? rebar in there? what else did he neglect?

Have hime hire a pro this time. You are lucky he willing to work with you.
Make him eat his mistake.

This is possibly the worst, most ridiculous advice! I'm sure the CG on the job expected the concrete guys to do it, and the concrete guys thought the CG would do it! I'm sure it was an honest mistake, and he regrets it now. Hell being soo close to the holidays, that might have played into the neglect. It was probably just a screw up. He admitted it, and is willing to make it right. You dont need to make him eat the mistake. He learned the hard way, and wont do it again I'm sure.

Be prepared for a lot of dust! and cut them in now. Hope for the best, and coat with epoxy when the weather gets better, and the cracks have formed.

Why would you rip it out! Thats making a mountain out of a molehill!

Shaun

 

[Highlux]

This is possibly the worst, most ridiculous advice! I'm sure the CG on the job expected the concrete guys to do it, and the concrete guys thought the CG would do it! I'm sure it was an honest mistake, and he regrets it now. Hell being soo close to the holidays, that might have played into the neglect. It was probably just a screw up. He admitted it, and is willing to make it right. You dont need to make him eat the mistake. He learned the hard way, and wont do it again I'm sure.

Be prepared for a lot of dust! and cut them in now. Hope for the best, and coat with epoxy when the weather gets better, and the cracks have fo
Why would you rip it out! Thats making a mountain out of a molehill!

Shaun

Maybe because he paid for a properly poured floor? Not a damn thing wrong with getting what you paid for. Exactley what you pay for. If the concrete guy "honestly" forgot the control joints? Did he forget rebar? Who knows...he was obviously a hack. That would be like me forgeting to mortar down a few tiles....they will be ok....pfft.

I'd make em tear every bit of it out.

Just because you settle for half *** work and sympathize with hack job doesnt mean others have to.

 

[Orionrising]

lots of lazy concrete guys out there who don't cut the slab at the right time or at all.

 

[ConCretin]

The only purpose of control joints is to induce a crack where it won't be seen i.e. in the bottom of the joint. They are irrelevant from a structural or durability standpoint.

The omission of control joints only means you have random cracks that aren't aesthetically pleasing. That is not to say that you aren't within your rights to ask for repairs or some other consideration.

The problem is that that random cracks are just about impossible to repair. Saw cutting joints now won't hurt but the slab has probably shrunk all it going to and they won't help with the existing cracks.

I don't think this rises to the level that would justify removal and replacement. You can get random cracks with control joints too. I suspect you've probably already paid the guy all or most of his money and I doubt he'e agree to do it without legal action, which is rarely worth the trouble.

I don't think he owes you a high end epoxy floor but I'd definitely ask him to kick in a few bucks.

 

[49thparallel]

Thanks very much for your replies. I have several fairly small cracks but the surface does look rough and has some various spots of scaling about the size of a quarter and some gouges on the surface. One scaling spot is next to one of the hairline cracks. I'm hesitant to even park my truck on it. According to the concrete subcontractor, it was very cold when they poured the slab and had to keep blankets on the concrete for five days so it wouldn't freeze. They probably shouldn't have even poured it. The thought of trying to demo my entire three car garage slab in our new home and re-pour makes me sick. My plan is to put a 100% solid epoxy coating over the floor if it can be sufficiently repaired and prepped first. I'm still torn, however, on whether to saw cut control joints since it's been almost a year since the initial pour and the concrete is already cracked. Also, if I do have the joints cut at this late stage, how deep should they go? I'm getting alot of differing opinions on this. It's a 4" slab and some say 1/4" of the depth (or 1") is adequate and others have recommended cutting all the way through the slab or at least several inches.

 

[jvitez]

No one cuts control joints in residential concrete slabs around here, and we have large weather extremes from -30C to +30C yearly. Our big issue is spalling due to freeze/thaw cycles.

Our house is 7 years old. Large concrete garage slab was poured in the dead of winter. Ground was heated for a couple of days with kerosene heaters, hoarding and insulation put up, slab installed with rebar, heated for days thereafter, and some type of sealant was sprayed on top. I've only noticed a few irregular cracks. They are full thickness as efflorescence comes through these cracks during heavy rains, but nothing has shifted.

Whatever sealant he sprayed made the floor really slippery when wet, but it toned down after a few years. So all in all, I'm happy with my no-saw-cut floor.

Maybe you spend a few bucks and hire a structural engineer to give you a stamped professional opinion. If it's just cosmetic then the fix is much simpler.

 

[Thumper68]

I live in Northern MN and my slab has no control joints in it, but then again it is heated so no freeze thaw cycles.

I would get a few bucks from him, have the floor ground and apply the epoxy.

 

[Chaz]

There's two types of concrete.
Concrete that has cracked,
and concrete that hasn't cracked yet.
Cut control joints generally work better than trowel grooved.

I'd let it be. It IS going to crack somewhere whether the slab has joints or not.

I wish my contractor hadn't cut joints at all. They chip and collect an amazing amount of dirt.

 

[ozyborn]

My slab, 25x35, is poured inside my garage. Foundation was first. Just that black cushion along the outside edge. N control joints. That was 12 years ago. Garage is heated now. No cracks.

Then again is is about 6" think with layers of rebar. Can not complain. I did not pay for concrete.

 

[kj_mustang]

No saw cuts in mine and I was the one who told the contractor to not do them. I have a wood expansion joint that divides the building in half and that is all.

 

[MrMark]

I wouldn't let any "control joints" be cut in my concrete either. They just make a hell of a mess as noted above. From what I have seen, they are just insurance for the concrete man against minor shrinkage cracking immediately after the pour. They certainly are far from standard for a residential small garage as some would lead you to believe in this thread.

 

[k1rodeoboater]

FWIW I'm living in a house now that was built in 09...there are control joints cut into the garage but that hasn't stopped it from cracking....or keeping the slab from having settled funny.

Glad I'm not the owner...this house was built like ****, looks nice but is falling apart way faster than it should be.

 

[ontcanuck]

I poured a 22 X 30 slab 30 yrs. ago without control joint and no cracks period with extreme cold temperatures here in Canada. We poured a hanging slab 9" in the middle and 24`on the outside. preparation was crushed stone and very heavy 4 ft. X 4 ft. rebar from a local gravel pit. Maybe overdone but the concrete guy guaranteed there would never be any cracks and he was right. The 2 story barn style garage was built on top of the slab.

 

[bullnerd]

No joints in mine either. I told them I didnt want any.

I have a couple very small surface cracks from improper drying but I am fine with that and expected it. I got the cheapest job I could. Its a working garage.

My niebors mega Morton building is about 30yrs old, no cracks and no joints.

 

[bazzateer]

My 30x20 was poured in two sections with just expansion 'material' around the edge. No control cuts. It's not common practice over here on smaller slabs.

 

[Rickochet]

My 32'X32' garage has no control cuts either. It was poured in 2006 and all I have is one very thin, tight crack. I don't recall ever seeing a concrete floor that doesn't have some sort of cracks. If he springs for an epoxy kit, I'd think you'd be wise to go with that. Let us know how you come out!

 

[Daniel Dudley]

Once it cracks, that is your control joint. If the base is sufficiently solid, and does not settle or heave, your floor will be fine. If it settles or heaves, control joints won't help.

 

[jimgerken]

Hopefully you have rebar (NOT mesh, which IMHO is useless and usually mis-applied). If you do have at least 3/8" (preferably 1/2") rebar on a 2 foot grid, the slab is going to stay together wherever it cracks. Do you know, or remember, or have any pictures of the prep before pouring? Was there rebar installed? the rebar should be placed 1/4 to 1/3 of the slab depth up from the bottom of the slab, so that requires "chairs" or other little spacers.
I have no experience with Epoxy, but have read many times that prep is everything, and the general concensus is that an acid etch is the minimum to get it to stay on. But in the end, it is a surface coating and will come off, and be subject to certain solvents and will not stand heat or sparks from metalworking, etc. These facts led me to Ashford Formula instead of Epoxy.

 

[Brad Beam]

No saw cuts in mine and I was the one who told the contractor to not do them. I have a wood expansion joint that divides the building in half and that is all.

Sorry for the hijacking, but what finish is on your floor Mustang?

 

[WanderingSol07]

I have a 22' x 24' garage floor w/o cracks or joints. Just the black expansion stuff between the floor and the block walls. It is unheated, but insulated space so the temps don't swing a lot, but it will get to 32 or below at floor level when cold outside. This floor is now 30 years old.

 

[kj_mustang]

Brad,
It was a cure and seal product put down after the concrete was troweled.