No ground outlet

[FMC1959]

I am sure this has been discussed, but I did some searches and could not find my exact situation.

I have a very old house. I would say about a third of the outlets are 2 wire and no ground. In some instances, it is possible to run a ground to the outlet. Where it is not easy without ripping out the wall, can replacing the standard receptacle with a GFCI work? Would the GFCI cover all the safety needs that a ground does, and is it legal according to code? How would the GFCI be wired, just black to hot, white to neutral and leave the ground lug empty? GFCI's typically cover outlet downstream, in this case would it also cover downstream outlets with no ground?

 

[rlitman]

... can replacing the standard receptacle with a GFCI work? Would the GFCI cover all the safety needs that a ground does, and is it legal according to code? How would the GFCI be wired, just black to hot, white to neutral and leave the ground lug empty? GFCI's typically cover outlet downstream, in this case would it also cover downstream outlets with no ground?

Yes. Yes. Exactly. GFCIs only protect downstream outlets when those are wired via the "load" connections. If you do that, you can install standard grounded outlets on the downstream protected side, provided you place the stickers on them that state they are GFCI protected.

 

[cgrutt]

Im not an electrician but understand the GFCI will work without having a ground and will offer protection to downstream ungrounded outlets if wired properly. It won't provide a true ground path however so equipment plugged into those outlets will still not have a ground pathway if there's internal fault.

 

[FMC1959]

Im not an electrician but understand the GFCI will work without having a ground and will offer protection to downstream ungrounded outlets if wired properly. It won't provide a true ground path however so equipment plugged into those outlets will still not have a ground pathway if there's internal fault.

"however so equipment plugged into those outlets will still not have a ground pathway if there's internal fault." OK, so what does this mean regarding safety for people and the equipment.

 

[rlitman]

"however so equipment plugged into those outlets will still not have a ground pathway if there's internal fault." OK, so what does this mean regarding safety for people and the equipment.

Absolutely nothing. You're 100% safer with a GFCI protected ungrounded appliance than a grounded appliance without GFCI protection.

 

[cgrutt]

"however so equipment plugged into those outlets will still not have a ground pathway if there's internal fault." OK, so what does this mean regarding safety for people and the equipment.

People would likely be protected from severe shock. Equipment, esp sensitive electronics e.g. tvs, computers, cameras, alarms, etc may not be protected from electrical surges. Built in surge suppression etc may not work. All I was saying is installing a GFCI on ungrounded outlets doesn't provide a ground pathway.

 

[rlitman]

People would likely be protected from severe shock. Equipment, esp sensitive electronics e.g. tvs, computers, cameras, alarms, etc may not be protected from electrical surges. Built in surge suppression etc may not work. All I was saying is installing a GFCI on ungrounded outlets doesn't provide a ground pathway.

Right. 2/3 of a surge protector's ability would be cut off by removing the ground path (because you lose the L-G and N-G pathways, but you do still have the L-N path). It's not remotely a life safety issue, and if you have surge protection at the panel it probably doesn't even matter, but yes, without a good ground path, a surge strip doesn't work very well.

 

[cgrutt]

Right. 2/3 of a surge protector's ability would be cut off by removing the ground path (because you lose the L-G and N-G pathways, but you do still have the L-N path). It's not remotely a life safety issue, and if you have surge protection at the panel it probably doesn't even matter, but yes, without a good ground path, a surge strip doesn't work very well.

I never said it was a life safety issue and stated it would provide GFCI protection to downstream outlets.

 

[theoldwizard1]

It won't provide a true ground path however so equipment plugged into those outlets will still not have a ground pathway if there's internal fault.

First, the original purpose of the ground wire was so if the appliance shorted the hot to the case (think toaster) and you touched the case, YOU did not become the "path of least resistance" to ground !

Second, (at least in theory) a GFCI works by comparing the amount of CURRENT going through the "hot" lead and then returning on the neutral lead. It trips if they are different. So if a person provides a path to ground, then some current will not be on the return lead.

 

[FMC1959]

Thanks to all, I just wanted to be sure it would be safe.

 

[Wrench97]

In most normal outlets around your home how many 3 prong devices do you have plugged in?

 

[FMC1959]

In most normal outlets around your home how many 3 prong devices do you have plugged in?

At least a dozen, why? BTW, all my ungrounded outlets are 3 prong, just no ground wire connection.

 

[Wrench97]

If the device is not 3 prong don't worry about the ground it doesn't need or use one.
If you are using it for A/C window units or grounded computer equipment I would run a new wire with a ground or install a new outlet as older homes never have enough outlets per room normally.

 

[Meursault74]

Did you check if they were grounded through the metal conduit?