No ground

[rvr6000]

Wife and I just bought a house (weekend cabin) last week. House was built in 1950 so the other day I went through and swapped out all the outlets for new ones with a grounding plug. As I expected there was no grounding wire in any of these outlets.

I know the work around for this is to replace the first outlet on the circuit with a gfci outlet. So, a couple questions....

1. Would replacing the breakers with gfci breakers also work? Albeit they are a lot more expensive.

2. Other than going one outlet at a time is there an easier way to find out which one is the first on the circuit?

If I remember right I'm only looking at 4 or 5 circuits I need to do this on so it might be worth the couple extra bucks for the gfci breakers and be done with it.

 

[rockwithjason]

yes you can use the breakers in place of the gfci outlets. i know of no easier way to locate the first in line.

 

[Gooch]

common sense is your best friend. turn one circuit off, find all recep's. that are off, and then it's probably the one nearest the panel.

Breakers are fine, aslong as the neutral's arn't shared.

 

[sberry]

And you may not want all circuits cfci, refridge etc. Some of thm I bite the bullet and pull a new wire where I want a grounded circuit.

 

[theoldwizard1]

So you don't have a ground (and still won't even with a GFCI breaker). So what ?

Put a GFCI outlet in the bathroom and the kitchen and you are done. Don't forget the little sticker that says "No Ground"

 

[rvr6000]

sberry - funny you mention that. In the process of switching outlets I get to the one for the fridge. I open up the box and there are four wires all spliced together in there....one for the circuit, one for the fridge and two that were branched off for whatever else. No wire nuts...just electrical tape.

There was obvious discoloration from heat. I cut the wires back and wire nutted them up good and tight minus the wire for the fridge. I already cut a hole in the drywall and drilled a hole to the basement for the new circuit. Didn't have any wire up there so I'll finish that when I go back up next week.

 

[terpfords]

Check in the box where the wires comes into the connector, there could be a ground wire pulled but not landed on the outlet. Around that time they used to coil up the ground wire around the insulation right where it entered the box so when you tightened the fitting it grounded the box.

 

[matt151617]

Check in the box where the wires comes into the connector, there could be a ground wire pulled but not landed on the outlet. Around that time they used to coil up the ground wire around the insulation right where it entered the box so when you tightened the fitting it grounded the box.

If you have this, they make short pigtail with a ground screw already attached so you have a ground wire in the box. Easier than unwrapping the ground on both ends.

 

[Falcon67]

Correct me if wrong, but I think if you are on a two wire system with no ground wire, you should NOT put in outlets with the ground pin. I think you have to use the older style polarized no ground pin outlets. I sure would not put in a "grounded" outlet when there is no ground for it. I would put a GFCI upstream if required.

 

[nanofrog]

There wasn't a ground provision for outlet/switch boxes in the NEC in 1950 (didn't happen until late 1958).

Only reason I know, is I've run into this myself (house built in '59 had grounded boxes <ground wire screwed to the back of a metal box>, but not one built in '56 <no grounds to any 120V circuits>).

 

[BFBOB]

I'm not an electrician, but several I've talked to about just this issue have said it's a code violation to a) install a gronding outlet where there is no grounding conductor and b) add a separate ground wire to a 2-conductor circuit wired with romex, BX or the like. Exception to this would be if the wire is in conduit; then it's permissible to add a ground wire in the conduit, assuming there's room.
I've asked because my 1929 house was originally knob & tube, and still is, more than half.
Bear in mind, this could be LOCAL codes. The NEC is a minimum standard; local jurisdictions are free to adopt more stringent regulations. I've run across this more than once in my business, which involves low voltage wiring.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I'm not an electrician, but several I've talked to about just this issue have said it's a code violation to a) install a grounding outlet where there is no grounding conductor and b) add a separate ground wire to a 2-conductor circuit wired with romex, BX or the like. Exception to this would be if the wire is in conduit; then it's permissible to add a ground wire in the conduit, assuming there's room.

You are correct on both counts.

 

[rabidsquirrel]

It is not a violation to put in receptacles with a ground, provided up put a GFCI at the first receptacle and go off the load side downstream AND label the receptacles with the little "No equipment ground" sticker that comes in the GFCI box that nobody uses.

In reality few inspectors will look for that little sticker.

 

[rvr6000]

Thanks for the info everyone. There are no grounds hooked up in the main panel either so I doubt I will find anything behind the boxes. There are a couple circuits in the house I'm going to take out completely and rewire after I gut the basement so I may just get the GFCI breakers and replace the remaining three circuits out of pure laziness. Just for something to do tonight at work maybe I'll print up a bunch of little "no ground" stickers on the label maker.

 

[sberry]

The no ground stickers come with the gfci, I believe you may still be allowed to ground a single device with a home run back to the panel but ideal is certainly to run a new cable for circuits where you want grounded outlets, in a bedroom these days I am not sure what you would want to plug in that was 3 wire? Doesn't matter much but laundry, fridge, micro I really want a dedicated circuit anyway and not some daisy chain from 6 decades ago, running a new wire isn't a waste of time.