Nivekdodge
Well-known member
A freind wants to build without. I know you guys have done the math to compare the costs down the road?? Is there a thread already?
Kevin
Kevin
No insulation vs
- Thread starter Nivekdodge
- Start date
Cost down the road of what, heating the building?
Very location and building dependent..
racecougar
Well-known member
Climate, size, desired temps, sun exposure, windows/doors, and so much more play a role. Run a Manual J.
dcg9381
Well-known member
Build without initially or build without forever?
Is he planning on heating and cooling? I installed "some" insulation - but less than recommendations for our geography. I could have doubled the insulation, but the cost of doing that outweighs the reduction in energy costs for a very long time. And it's even more offset if you don't heat/cool all the time...
Some insulation will be necessary in most areas to sustain heat/cool settings.. But I guess you can always throw a lot of power at it.
Shiftless
Well-known member
The cost of electricity and other sources of energy vary wildly across our country. There might be some place where insulation vs. energy cost has such a long payback time that it’s not worth it. But I’ll bet that is a very rare case.
Pay for the insulation!!
Pay for the insulation!!
Steve W.
Well-known member
You pay for insulation ONCE.
You pay for heating and cooling FOREVER.
It's easy math from there.
.
You pay for heating and cooling FOREVER.
It's easy math from there.
.
fitter30
Well-known member
Can you imagine after having a garage for a year the pain in the rear it would be to insulate.You pay for insulation ONCE.
You pay for heating and cooling FOREVER.
It's easy math from there.
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Steve W.
Well-known member
It was bad enough to insulate while I was still building it.
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a lot depends on what he is planning on building, what it's planed use is, how big, etc
Try googling insulation ROI.
dcg9381
Well-known member
The problem with this is that most are "assumptive" about it being residential or full time heating/cooling.
The math is vastly different if you're heating cooling the shop 1-2 days a week for 5 hours/day.
For us it was easy to do "one pass" with spray foam and then frame out. If I really wanted to, I'd go back in with bat insulation and achieve a decent R value. Might we worth it to have the building supplier do the "insulation blanket" over no insulation at all.. Depends on what the use case and goal are I guess... And a shop in CA can be a lot more "uninsulated" than one in Alaska or S. Texas.
Wrench97
Well-known member
Built what out of what, where? The answer will be different for 2 car detached garage out of cinder block in Eastern Maryland with no HVAC vs a pole barn workshop to used year round in Erie.
ericm
Well-known member
Keep in mind that insulation will be done and paid for once while electricity and gas prices will only go up in the future.
Crazyjake8493
Well-known member
Unless the building will have no heating or cooling system installed, insulation is always worth the cost. Actually, proper air sealing first, and then insulation. 100% worth it.
nadogail
Well-known member
It Depends on the location and use of the structure.
Mine was up and in use before removing every single thing for spray foam. I will be doing the floors before I move back into the shop.
I realize this thread is a waste of bandwidth, but in my metal building it was 10°F hotter inside than outside in the heat of the summer and no amount of heat would make it reasonable in the winter. No insulation is worse than no building, IMO.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
It's not just about ROI, it's also about comfort. Sometimes with no insulation, you just won't be able to heat or cool the space period. Additionally, even if you can physically heat/cool the air, the space will still "feel" cold or hot due to excessive IR radiation (or lack of it).
Everything emits IR, and your body feels that. A friend of mine has a low-roof long barn with no insulation. It's got big doors and plenty of ventilation. Even with the barn doors wide open and a strong breeze, it's deeply unpleasant to be in that building in the summer due to the roof heat. It's actually more pleasant to be outside in direct sunlight, then to be in that building sitting under the 130°F roof.
Likewise in the winter, even if the air in the space is warm, if all the walls are cold, any bits of bare skin you have will still feel cool because there's no IR warming it.
I can't imagine having a space I want to heat and not have it insulated! If varmits are an issue, do something to keep them out, or make the place unfavorable for them. You won't have snakes in the insulation if you don't have mice.
I don't have mice or snakes in my shop, but I have traps and poison out for mice so no snakes either.
As for the roof blowing off, I realize you can't build for extreme conditions, but build to accepted standards and you shouldn't have issues with wind storms unless you get that once in a lifetime storm. People have buildings all over and rarely have issues like this.
I had to laugh at a buddy that built a shop. Before the walls got sealed up he dumped mice pellets in each stud bay, then sheeted the walls. A bit extreme, but no mice in the walls either!
I don't have mice or snakes in my shop, but I have traps and poison out for mice so no snakes either.
As for the roof blowing off, I realize you can't build for extreme conditions, but build to accepted standards and you shouldn't have issues with wind storms unless you get that once in a lifetime storm. People have buildings all over and rarely have issues like this.
I had to laugh at a buddy that built a shop. Before the walls got sealed up he dumped mice pellets in each stud bay, then sheeted the walls. A bit extreme, but no mice in the walls either!
The exterior walls in my garage were open 2x4. In the winter, it was usually ambient temps or just a few degrees warmer. Walking/working in a garage that is 20° is not fun. I spent <$500 and insulated with Rockwool. Made a huge difference, around 20-30° above ambient temps. Turn a heater on and the garage is cozy to work in now. The unintended reduction in noise was also nice. I could hear the garage door open/close on the opposite side of the house, since insulating, I can barely hear it.
All that to say, insulation is worth it.
All that to say, insulation is worth it.
ripperd
Well-known member
Even if you don't heat or cool it, it makes a huge difference in the temperature swings it will experience. It just is significantly more comfortable.
It also is more helpful to prevent rusting of tools, vehicles, etc if you don't have everything getting cold at night and staying cold while the air temperature and humidity skyrocket during the day, condensing on the colder metal.
It also is more helpful to prevent rusting of tools, vehicles, etc if you don't have everything getting cold at night and staying cold while the air temperature and humidity skyrocket during the day, condensing on the colder metal.
bwringer
Well-known member
If they're building a house, even the pioneers went to considerable trouble to keep heat in and drafts out in the winter, and to provide for airflow in the summer...
Assuming the "friend" is building a doghouse, then the poor hound will either roast to death or freeze to death in extreme weather. Even chicken coops ought to have an insulated refuge for the birds.
If we assume this mystery structure is a gazebo, picnic shelter, or carport, then I guess going without insulation is kinda standard.
Storage sheds are also routinely built without insulation, but if there's ever a chance it might be pressed into service as a workspace, or used to store things that are at all sensitive to temperature extremes, then insulating during construction is easiest and cheapest.
Or maybe we're meant to assume it's a garage, given the title of this website. Perhaps a detached garage. If the structure's ONLY use EVER will be to park a car out of the weather, then going without insulation is at least a step better than leaving the car in the direct sun and snow all year. But I'd still insulate it to increase future versatility.
A farm equipment shed might not need insulation, but many of these have an insulated workshop at one end. Even without HVAC, insulation will make the space a far more usable by humans on hot or cold days.
logical
Well-known member
I'm in SE Michigan. I've had both insulated and insulated. I have heat but no A/C. The difference in both summer and winter, even without heat and/or A/C running, is significant, especially summer with Southern walls and doors. I would never build a garage without 2x6 walls and insulation if I planned to spend any time there.