No more snap-on for me

[bsaint]

I'm sure no one cares but I'm sure many here have the same sentiment. I bought my last $164 1/4" ratchet. I don't see the value anymore. Maybe after covid prices will come down. I can't get 2 items lately without a $300 invoice. Unless it's so crazy exclusive and I absolutely have to have it (blue point vises for example) I'll prob get it in Hazet or Facom flavor. As for air I've been doing CP. And for electric I'm filling out my Makita and IR collection.

 

[Ricky Joe]

I'm sure no one cares but I'm sure many here have the same sentiment. I bought my last $164 ratchet. I don't see the value anymore. Maybe after covid prices will come down. I can't get 2 items lately without a $300 invoice. Unless it's so crazy exclusive and I absolutely have to have it (blue point vises for example) I'll prob get it in Hazet or Facom flavor. As for air I've been doing CP. And for electric I'm filling out my Makita and IR collection.

I have felt that way for thirty-five years and more. After the second time my tools got stolen I switched to other brands, and for the most part have been happier. What Snap-On I do have has either been bought second hand or been traded for. I still have my first purchase, a quarter inch drive set, and some random survivors from my youth, but, like you, find it hard to justify buying a Cadillac when a Ford will do.

 

[M6erfan]

I'm sure no one cares but I'm sure many here have the same sentiment. I bought my last $164 ratchet. I don't see the value anymore. Maybe after covid prices will come down. I can't get 2 items lately without a $300 invoice. Unless it's so crazy exclusive and I absolutely have to have it (blue point vises for example) I'll prob get it in Hazet or Facom flavor. As for air I've been doing CP. And for electric I'm filling out my Makita and IR collection.

Don't rule out KTC or Ko-ken. Both are still great value.

 

[Packard V8]

Snap-on retail has always been insane. I've got a big box full and 99% I picked up used over the past fifty years.

As much as it pains me to say it, if starting over, I'd go to Harbor Freight.

jack vines

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I still buy Snap-on. I snuck out today with a $127 bill left and that was with the purchase of a 1/4 long ratchet and a 6 inch pair of needle nose pliers and an $80 payment. Now does everything need to be Snap-on? Absolutely not but I do like nice tools. I absolutely would never buy their power tools though.

 

[shawhite]

I wonder how many of your guys feel you are over paid at your day job? Labor is not cheap in America especially quality trained labor. How man hours do you suppose goes into those tools you deem too expensive?

 

[vwpieces]

Only SO I have were gifts, found or free.
But if your wrenching for a living there is no Hazet truck to warranty a broken tool.
And with that said I own and use Hazet tools daily. In 25+ years I have only ever broke one Hazet tool. 3/8in drive 10mm deep socket and that was using it for an XZN head bolt removal. All I had in XZN at the time were some cal-van bit type tools that did not have a square drive. It was a tight space and 1/2in socket didn't fit, bit too short... Now have Hazet in the proper configs to do what I need.

 

[bsaint]

I wonder how many of your guys feel you are over paid at your day job? Labor is not cheap in America especially quality trained labor. How man hours do you suppose goes into those tools you deem too expensive?

I understand what you mean. I'm not saying they are necessarily overpriced because of 1) supply shortage and demand increase and 2) I don't know their margins. I just am saying for me I don't think they're worth it because of alternatives. At one point 90% of my toolbox was snapon, the other 10% Mac. All my hard line and basic tools are snapon. But in the past 5 years it's dropped to maybe 70-75%. There has to be a degree of overpriced because there are other American made Union made wrenches like Wright that don't command the same money for the same items.

 

[1982fxr]

What Blue Point vises are you liking op?

 

[bsaint]

Only SO I have were gifts, found or free.
But if your wrenching for a living there is no Hazet truck to warranty a broken tool.
And with that said I own and use Hazet tools daily. In 25+ years I have only ever broke one Hazet tool. 3/8in drive 10mm deep socket and that was using it for an XZN head bolt removal. All I had in XZN at the time were some cal-van bit type tools that did not have a square drive. It was a tight space and 1/2in socket didn't fit, bit too short... Now have Hazet in the proper configs to do what I need.

Unless you have a Snapon truck coming warranty is hard too. It's a phone call. And SO doesn't frequent small shops like they used too or meet up with new customers in parking lots. They want dealerships. I love my small Hazet collection. I don't think I could break one. Also when I did have a tool truck coming everything warranted was a week out. Amazon is 2 days.

 

[bsaint]

What Blue Point vises are you liking op?

I've been dying to know who makes them. Maybe it's Indian. It's the BLPMV6. I saw one on ebay a year ago but didn't have the extra funds for it.

 

[KnurledNut]

I've been dying to know who makes them. Maybe it's Indian. It's the BLPMV6. I saw one on ebay a year ago but didn't have the extra funds for it.

Irimo.

Bench Vices - Vices & Clamps - Products

www.irimo.com

 

[shawhite]

Unless you have a Snapon truck coming warranty is hard too. It's a phone call. And SO doesn't frequent small shops like they used too or meet up with new customers in parking lots. They want dealerships. I love my small Hazet collection. I don't think I could break one. Also when I did have a tool truck coming everything warranted was a week out. Amazon is 2 days.

I guess everyone’s experience differs but I have never been denied a warranty from snap-on CS or a driver whether it was mine or a random driver I ran across. Sure drivers want dealerships because there are more techs there so more potential to make sales but my old driver will meet me anywhere. It’s all about relationships. Not sure why warranty with your driver is a week out if I break something my driver usually has it on his truck for same day repair or replacement sure there is always an oddball situation but those are uncommon in my experience. I personally buy American products whenever possible because I want my fellow Americans making a good wage to support their family instead of slaving away at Amazon delivering all your foreign goods for peanuts. I think Americans have gotten too comfortable with the current cheap disposable society.

 

[bsaint]

I guess everyone’s experience differs but I have never been denied a warranty from snap-on CS or a driver whether it was mine or a random driver I ran across. Sure drivers want dealerships because there are more techs there so more potential to make sales but my old driver will meet me anywhere. It’s all about relationships. Not sure why warranty with your driver is a week out if I break something my driver usually has it on his truck for same day repair or replacement sure there is always an oddball situation but those are uncommon in my experience. I personally buy American products whenever possible because I want my fellow Americans making a good wage to support their family instead of slaving away at Amazon delivering all your foreign goods for peanuts. I think Americans have gotten too comfortable with the current cheap disposable society.

My Wrights, Channellocks, some Lisle, Tekton screwdrivers, etc are all made in the states and delivered by Amazon.

 

[Neggy]

Yes, the SO guy deserves to make a living, so he has to profit $400 a day to pay himself, and his self employment taxes, Insurances, etc, plus there is the cost of say an 65K truck (or more) lease or purchase, plus operating costs, and lets say 100K in inventory he has on financing or paid for..... you have to sell a lot of stuff at high cost and high margins to stay in business.

That being said, and I like my SO ratchets, I'm not buying any more new off the truck, my last 1/4 inch was around $100 , it filled out my collection/needs and at my age the lifetime warranty doesn't mean as much as it did 40 years ago when I started buying stuff off tool trucks

I don't know how new techs can afford really good tools, I know what my tools would cost in current dollars/prices.. cripes I have $1200 worth of hand ratchets, forget the battery and air ones.

 

[bsaint]

Irimo.

Bench Vices - Vices & Clamps - Products

www.irimo.com

I don't think I can buy from them.

 

[bsaint]

Yes, the SO guy deserves to make a living, so he has to profit $400 a day to pay himself, and his self employment taxes, Insurances, etc, plus there is the cost of say an 65K truck (or more) lease or purchase, plus operating costs, and lets say 100K in inventory he has on financing or paid for..... you have to sell a lot of stuff at high cost and high margins to stay in business.

That being said, and I like my SO ratchets, but I'm not buying any more new off the truck, my last 1/4 inch was around $100 , it filled out my collection/needs and at my age the lifetime warranty doesn't mean as much as it did 40 years ago when I started buying stuff off tool trucks

I don't know how new techs can afford really good tools, I know what my tools would cost in current dollars/prices.. cripes I have $1200 worth of hand ratchets, forget the battery and air ones.

Yes I have a business to business relationship with my Matco guy. He said he needs 60k - 100k in the field owed to him at a time to keep cash flow coming. And the investment. I get you're paying a premium. Like I said I'm not saying it's over priced per say.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

I wonder how many of your guys feel you are over paid at your day job? Labor is not cheap in America especially quality trained labor. How man hours do you suppose goes into those tools you deem too expensive?

I dunno about American labor not being cheap. I'm skilled trades in manufacturing and shops everywhere pay their people very poorly. In fact, they rely heavily on contract/temp help or operators. It's one of the major reasons we, as a trade, cannot recruit and have something like a 5:1 retiree to new hire ratio and it is getting worse. I buy USA-made as often as possible but the prices for the most part have certainly exceeded a normal blue-collar wage.

 

[dnschmidt]

Don't do it!! I have a shitload of SNA stock. If you're attitude spreads my investment will crater. Now, I completely agree with you but keep your opinions to yourself dammit.

 

[Mr_B]

for air, snapon been dead for years, kuani, astro, aircat offer some podium air tools for 5th of snapon pricing .
Snapon pretty weak in battery tools and elec diag these days too, few exceptional gems but way too many overpriced but below par products .

 

[dstblj52]

for air, snapon been dead for years, kuani, astro, aircat offer some podium air tools for 5th of snapon pricing .
Snapon pretty weak in battery tools and elec diag these days too, few exceptional gems but way too many overpriced but below par products .

For electric realistically it's either Milwaukee or Mac/Dewalt as logical options

 

[Ricky Joe]

When you buy Snap-On, you pay for the tool, the truck, the insurance, the groceries, the house, the utilities, taking his wife out to dinner, the deadbeats that beat him out, the carrying costs, gas and maintenance; in short, a lot of money that is not represented by the value of the tool. Craftsman is actually a better value because all of that is spread out in the profit of everything from appliances to lawn mowers. Harbor Freight has a closer margin.

 

[tarbellb]

I guess everyone’s experience differs but I have never been denied a warranty from snap-on CS or a driver whether it was mine or a random driver I ran across. Sure drivers want dealerships because there are more techs there so more potential to make sales but my old driver will meet me anywhere. It’s all about relationships. Not sure why warranty with your driver is a week out if I break something my driver usually has it on his truck for same day repair or replacement sure there is always an oddball situation but those are uncommon in my experience. I personally buy American products whenever possible because I want my fellow Americans making a good wage to support their family instead of slaving away at Amazon delivering all your foreign goods for peanuts. I think Americans have gotten too comfortable with the current cheap disposable society.

So I have to have a special relationship to take full advantage of a product I paid for?

Guess I better start baking cookies and bringing beers when i go out shopping

 

[2ndGearRubber]

The air tools and electrics always had poor value to me. Most of my stuff isn't snap on as I don't feel the cost outweighs the increased performance. Now, on some things I feel it does. I'm happy to pay for wobble+ extensions, specialty sockets, and play the shell game with scan tools. My boxes are all snap on. My electrics are M12, my air tools are IR/Astro/CP/SPair.

IDK how one could actually fill a box with snap on, the price is just too high IMO to actually get a usable tool collection off the ground quickly. You wouldn't have the cash flow due to being undertooled. Thus you couldn't make money by being efficient due to lack of tools. Thus your tool growth would take longer. Of course, most people I see just refuse to properly invest for the mechanic trade, and thus suffer.

 

[Jweebothee]

I still buy Snap-on. I snuck out today with a $127 bill left and that was with the purchase of a 1/4 long ratchet and a 6 inch pair of needle nose pliers and an $80 payment. Now does everything need to be Snap-on? Absolutely not but I do like nice tools. I absolutely would never buy their power tools though.

I haven’t been on snappy’s truck in a month haha, since my hours changed to 7:30-4:30, hmmmmm now that I think about it, it’s probably a good thing haha, just wondering what black or blue hard handle tools he has haha, maybe I’ll stick around the shop tomorrow until he shows up

 

[PoorUB]

When you buy Snap-On, you pay for the tool, the truck, the insurance, the groceries, the house, the utilities, taking his wife out to dinner, the deadbeats that beat him out, the carrying costs, gas and maintenance; in short, a lot of money that is not represented by the value of the tool. Craftsman is actually a better value because all of that is spread out in the profit of everything from appliances to lawn mowers. Harbor Freight has a closer margin.

Pretty much the same that you pay for in any business, groceries and nights out with the wife included. It is called payroll. Amazon has trucks, but probably few deadbeat customers. Your local tool store has accounts they can't collect and a huge store and warehouse the SO driver does not have. It is all the same in the end.

 

[pvanderlugt]

I wonder how many of your guys feel you are over paid at your day job? Labor is not cheap in America especially quality trained labor. How man hours do you suppose goes into those tools you deem too expensive?

Labor in Germany and Japan in not cheap either, and those tools need to be shipped 3000 miles to get here…and then compete with SO…. shipping ain’t cheap anymore….probably all comes down to efficiently , ,“ how many man hours does it take to make a wrench/socket? “I have seen some footage on “how it’s made“ from inside the SnapOn factory, looks like pretty ancient production techniques and technology to me…..

 

[Mallen]

I'm sure no one cares but I'm sure many here have the same sentiment. I bought my last $164 1/4" ratchet. I don't see the value anymore. Maybe after covid prices will come down. I can't get 2 items lately without a $300 invoice. Unless it's so crazy exclusive and I absolutely have to have it (blue point vises for example) I'll prob get it in Hazet or Facom flavor. As for air I've been doing CP. And for electric I'm filling out my Makita and IR collection.

If you need the service of the tool truck that's one thing, but if you just want quality tools,there are entry of options. Williams ratchets share rebuild kits with Snap-On which makes them essentially the same. Honestly, at 130 dollars for a Snap-On 3/8" ratchet I don't see how it makes sense even with the tool truck level of service. A Williams ratchet costs about 30 bucks. Keep a spare in your bottom drawer and your still 60 bucks ahead. (Or I guess if your clever, call them up and have them send a rebuild kit or two and keep those in the bottom drawer)

 

[Mallen]

When you buy Snap-On, you pay for the tool, the truck, the insurance, the groceries, the house, the utilities, taking his wife out to dinner, the deadbeats that beat him out, the carrying costs, gas and maintenance; in short, a lot of money that is not represented by the value of the tool. Craftsman is actually a better value because all of that is spread out in the profit of everything from appliances to lawn mowers. Harbor Freight has a closer margin.

Just take his wife out to dinner yourself and cut out the middleman.

I don't take a position on whether the tools are overpriced. There is more than just the quality of the tool and I've always had great service from Snap-On. Overpriced is honestly just a matter of opinion. Anything is worth what Simone is willing to pay. What I wonder though is how the numbers work out when you can buy a Williams wrench that I understand shares the same internals with a Snap-On for a quarter of the price. I would think that the number where it would make sense would be somewhere around two e the price. At four times the price I might as well keep a spare set of critical tools. At twice the price I have to decide whether it's worth it he space to store those spared because it works out to the same cost either way.

 

[Mikeske]

With over 45 years of wrenching I never got into buying any one brand of tools. When I was preparing to separate from he Air Force in 1983 I had saved up $3.500.00. so my tool budget was set at that price. I knew I need a really good set of basic hand tools as I was a vehicle mechanic and preparing to go into the Air Force Reserves as a aircraft mechanic.

I got bids from Snap-on, Matco trucks and then from Grainger for Bonney tools, the Mac dealer refused to give me a bid for the basic mechanics set. Well Bonney won out as they also included a roller and top toolbox (just a cheap Waterloo combo set but something I could secure my tools). The Bonney set was with basic set was $3,100. Even then $2,100.00 for the nice toolbox from Snap-on was to much for me as I was a young guy with a family to support and there was no way I would allow myself to go into debt to finance a toolbox.

The years go by and yes later I could afford a lot better but for some reason I never bought anything off the trucks but did hit pawn shops back before the internet was anything and picked up slowly all the common sizes of Snap-on ratchets as I thought they do make the best ratchets. After 30+ years my 1/2" drive Snap-on ratchet finally had to have a rebuild kit. I contact Snap-on with the request for rebuild kit and they sent me the kit with no fuss.

Being that I ended up being a cash and carry vehicle for ten years and a aviation mechanic for over 30 years I just used tools that did the job and for me if a tool works and stands up to my abuse with little to no fuss I am content. Snap-on just a option to me and yes they make fine products but 60-120% more then another brand sorry I can not see the return on the investment.

 

[Ricky Joe]

Pretty much the same that you pay for in any business, groceries and nights out with the wife included. It is called payroll. Amazon has trucks, but probably few deadbeat customers. Your local tool store has accounts they can't collect and a huge store and warehouse the SO driver does not have. It is all the same in the end.

Somewhat. I think the diversification of Sears spreads the risk out where Snap-On is specialized to a single product. But , yes, Harbor Freight has high overhead also. Labor, rent, insurance, etc. So, I agree, it probably washes out.

 

[FMB4]

Was slowly gathering up a set of SO back in the '80s. Had fairly complete set of S drivers, SAE sockets (3/8 1/2) and a large selection of combo wrenches. Keep them in my apartment while waiting to buy a SO roll around. Went to work one day and noticed that the coworker kid had called in sick that day. Came home to find my place broken into and my SO tools gone (except for the S drivers which were at work). Kid knew what I was buying off the SO truck. Also knew that I took them home. A neighbor had seen a guy acting odd near the front door of my apt. His description matched that of the kid's father. Turned out that the kid was a semi suspect in another burglary of coworker. I was stupid and had no insurance. Ended up slowly paying off the SO guy for tools that I no long had.

Anyway, after that I just couldn't afford SO again.

Edit: I think about the above almost every time a grab one of my old SO screwdrivers.


P.S. Please make sure that you have renter's or homeowner insurance.

 

[Ricky Joe]

Was slowly gathering up a set of SO back in the '80s. Had fairly complete set of S drivers, SAE sockets (3/8 1/2) and a large selection of combo wrenches. Keep them in my apartment while waiting to buy a SO roll around. Went to work one day and noticed that the coworker kid had called in sick that day. Came home to find my place broken into and my SO tools gone (except for the S drivers which were at work). Kid knew what I was buying off the SO truck. Also knew that I took them home. A neighbor had seen a guy acting odd near the front door of my apt. His description matched that of the kid's father. Turned out that the kid was a semi suspect in another burglary of coworker. I was stupid and had no insurance. Ended up slowly paying off the SO guy for tools that I no long had.

Anyway, after that I just couldn't afford SO again.

P.S. Please make sure that you have renter's or homeowner insurance.

I had always heard that a thief wouldn’t steal tools because they don’t want to work!

I had mine stolen twice, once in about 1983 when I was on a road call and the truck got broken into, all tools stolen that I had with me, from the motel parking lot. Second time garage broken into, customer’s car loaded up and stolen and wrecked. Tow truck driver probably got them. Broke me of buying tools for strangers!

 

[Ton ton]

Sorry to hear about your stolen tools experience.

 

[Ricky Joe]

Sorry to hear about your stolen tools experience.

Everybody’s got to eat. Some can make it and some gotta take it.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

If you need the service of the tool truck that's one thing, but if you just want quality tools,there are entry of options. Williams ratchets share rebuild kits with Snap-On which makes them essentially the same. Honestly, at 130 dollars for a Snap-On 3/8" ratchet I don't see how it makes sense even with the tool truck level of service. A Williams ratchet costs about 30 bucks. Keep a spare in your bottom drawer and your still 60 bucks ahead. (Or I guess if your clever, call them up and have them send a rebuild kit or two and keep those in the bottom drawer)

They're not the same though.

You're comparing the 30yo design with 30 teeth to the modern dual80 ratchets. Williams ain't selling you a USA made 18" long flex head ratchet with 80 teeth.

 

[pl_silverado]

Yes, the SO guy deserves to make a living, so he has to profit $400 a day to pay himself, and his self employment taxes, Insurances, etc, plus there is the cost of say an 65K truck (or more) lease or purchase, plus operating costs, and lets say 100K in inventory he has on financing or paid for..... you have to sell a lot of stuff at high cost and high margins to stay in business.

That being said, and I like my SO ratchets, I'm not buying any more new off the truck, my last 1/4 inch was around $100 , it filled out my collection/needs and at my age the lifetime warranty doesn't mean as much as it did 40 years ago when I started buying stuff off tool trucks

I don't know how new techs can afford really good tools, I know what my tools would cost in current dollars/prices.. cripes I have $1200 worth of hand ratchets, forget the battery and air ones.

Your numbers are low. When i was a dealer 10 years ago, cost of a truck was $120k+, $100k in inventory is a bare bones truck, I carried on average $250k. Its an expensive business to be in. Theres easier ways to make money working 4 days a week with a whole hell of a lot less debt and overhead. But I did enjoy it.

 

[M635_Guy]

I wonder how many of your guys feel you are over paid at your day job? Labor is not cheap in America especially quality trained labor. How man hours do you suppose goes into those tools you deem too expensive?

I'm sorry, but that's a stupid arguement. Ultimately this discussion boils down to whether the product is worth the money to the market they're going after. Anyone supporting the workers of Snap On should only do it with money left over supporting themselves and preparing for their own retirement. Given that so many employers put the burden of supplying the tools on the worker, it's pretty crazy to start out buying SO/Mac/etc. tools and box. That money does a lot more for a lot more people put in retirement or improving their living conditions, not chasing a romantic ideal, especially when I have to think the 5-year fallout of the profession is pretty high.

For the most part, SO makes premium/luxury tools. Yes, they have outstanding quality. But between a box and tools I'm guessing a new tech spends double-digit thousands each of the first couple years on tools that could probably be had for $5K all-in with fine-quality brands. Once you're up and running, have made some money, are committed to the profession, have saved some $$ for retirement and a rainy day, I can totally see beginning to acquire SO. I really enjoy the SO stuff I have, but almost all of them were a gift to myself in one form or another.

 

[Ign]

I've never understood how anyone buys a box off the truck. The margins on boxes have to be HUGE.

I've worked in a sheetmetal shop. We didn't build Snappy boxes but we built numerous cabinets with dual doors around the shop. Bending up a box and slapping some paint on it does not justify the retail pricing, even after quality slides and casters and lid struts (if applicable)

Consider a new roller can pretty easily hit $10k off the truck if you're taking 54"+ and/or Epiq-level. Add an upper or a hutch with side cabinet and you're at $20k without trying too hard.

Now, consider everything else you could buy with --- I'll use the high end of $20k to demonstrate my point.

How 'bout a new vertical mill? Granted not a perfect example because AFAIK you can't get a US-made mill today....but even a Taiwanese Bridgeport variable speed head was $16k before COVID (I simply haven't shopped post-COVID). A mill must have literally 500 more moving pieces than a box, and a great many of them are built within a few tenths tolerance.

Don't like my example of machine tools? How 'bout the ATV/UTV market, even post-COVID? How much ATV can you get for $20k, even new off the dealer floor? A lot more than a box bent up with casters bolted on the bottom. And again, consider all the moving parts in an ATV: engine (again, many tight tolerances), steering, brakes, electrical and on and on.

I really like Snappy boxes, but not at retail.

 

[dlwilson]

I've been an amateur wrench for 40 years, starting off with Craftsman and whatever the auto parts store had. I always felt like Snap-on was what real mechanics used, so I slowly built up a set of ratchets, sockets, and wrenches from garage and estate sales, and from eBay. I was using what the pros use, and it's nice having the feel of SO in your hand, but practically speaking I don't think it turns bolts any better. I don't have access to a tool truck, so as I've broken or lost some of the SO stuff I can't get it replaced. I've been buying Tekton instead, and it works just fine. I guess my point is that I've used SO, it's nice, but since I don't need the benefit of the tool truck I am just fine with a lesser brand. I guess I should change my avatar picture!