no neutral at switch

[gs8212]

I wired a circuit with a switch-controlled receptacle physically in the middle of the circuit between the breaker and the switch (why is a different story). See diagram below. Is this non-compliant with latest code since there is no neutral at the switch? Since there is no way to connect a neutral to a switch, I don't understand why code would require a neutral at the switch. I've seen this stated several place in the GJ, with one post stating that in a situation with the switch at the end of the circuit, you would just cap the neutral. What am I missing (limit yourself to only 5 things please ).

 

[Norcal]

Code requires a neutral because of occupancy sensors, long story, but it's simple to get a neutral at the switch, just use some 3-wire w/ ground NM cable instead of 2-wire, for the switch leg.

 

[scissorman]

I'm no electrician but a good buddy of mine is (35 years now) and the drawing you made is correct. A simple switch to turn on/off an item (recepticle in your case) will only be breaking the HOT wire. It is code however to have a ground wire on the switch which your drawing shows.

 

[Mustang51js]

I always ran a neutral to my switches anyways, but the reason is a lot of the new switches have a hookup for the neutral. Led dimmers and such

 

[gs8212]

Norcal - yea, I think I may have outsmarted myself. I'm running BX and didn't want to buy 25-ft of 14-3 for such a short run, but duh, walk to the end of the isle and buy it off the reel in the length I need. Don't know why I didn't think of that until now.

Norcal and Mustang51js - In this particular setup I installed receptacles on the ceiling to plug in 4ft LED fixtures, and needed to get them on a switch. So I won't be adding anything else fancy here. But lesson learned for the future; always run a neutral for possible future uses.

Thanks guys............

 

[n8n]

Code requires a neutral because of occupancy sensors, long story, but it's simple to get a neutral at the switch, just use some 3-wire w/ ground NM cable instead of 2-wire, for the switch leg.

That and if you want to later on drop a receptacle directly below the switch it's easy (ish; you'll probably run into box fill issues with a handy box for the switch, needs to be a 1900 box or double gang.)

 

[gs8212]

n8n - good point. Didn't think of keeping a neutral to allow for extending the circuit to a receptacle. This is what I like about the electrical work; it's got a lot of flexibility to it. Seems like there are always interesting design choices.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

How long ago did you wire it?

 

[LXCam]

Ok, this is the second time tonight this statement has been made. Would someone please site the code section that states this requirement. Thanks.

 

[Mustang51js]

From 2011 code, art 404. From what I read quick it only applies for 3 and 4 way switches, with some other exceptions also. So it also depends on what code your state is up to.

 

[Stuff]

Neutral not required if a new cable can be easily installed - unfinished attic above or basement below.

Also - your drawing has a code violation - the taped white wire should be the always hot and the solid black the switched wire.

 

[Stuff]

From 2011 NEC section 404.2:

(C) Switches Controlling Lighting Loads. Where switches
control lighting loads supplied by a grounded general purpose
branch circuit, the grounded circuit conductor for the controlled
lighting circuit shall be provided at the switch location.
Exception: The grounded circuit conductor shall be permitted
to be omitted from the switch enclosure where either
of the following conditions in (1) or (2) apply:

(1) Conductors for switches controlling lighting loads enter
the box through a raceway. The raceway shall have
suffıcient cross-sectional area to accommodate the extension
of the grounded circuit conductor of the lighting
circuit to the switch location whether or not the
conductors in the raceway are required to be increased
in size to comply with 310.15(B)(3)(a).

(2) Cable assemblies for switches controlling lighting
loads enter the box through a framing cavity that is
open at the top or bottom on the same floor level, or
through a wall, floor, or ceiling that is unfinished on
one side.

Informational Note: The provision for a (future) grounded
conductor is to complete a circuit path for electronic lighting
control devices.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I wired a circuit with a switch-controlled receptacle physically in the middle of the circuit between the breaker and the switch.

Code requires a neutral because of occupancy sensors, ...

Which code, what year and is that the version of the NEC being enforced where you live !

How long ago did you wire it?

EXACTLY !

Millions of switches have been installed in this fashion. Is it safe ? ABSOLUTELY ! Is it "future proof", no.

 

[Norcal]

From 2011 NEC section 404.2:

(C) Switches Controlling Lighting Loads. Where switches
control lighting loads supplied by a grounded general purpose
branch circuit, the grounded circuit conductor for the controlled
lighting circuit shall be provided at the switch location.
Exception: The grounded circuit conductor shall be permitted
to be omitted from the switch enclosure where either
of the following conditions in (1) or (2) apply:

(1) Conductors for switches controlling lighting loads enter
the box through a raceway. The raceway shall have
suffıcient cross-sectional area to accommodate the extension
of the grounded circuit conductor of the lighting
circuit to the switch location whether or not the
conductors in the raceway are required to be increased
in size to comply with 310.15(B)(3)(a).

(2) Cable assemblies for switches controlling lighting
loads enter the box through a framing cavity that is
open at the top or bottom on the same floor level, or
through a wall, floor, or ceiling that is unfinished on
one side.

Informational Note: The provision for a (future) grounded
conductor is to complete a circuit path for electronic lighting
control devices.

Which code, what year and is that the version of the NEC being enforced where you live

2011 NEC.

By adding the requirement for a neutral the statement that the NEC is not a design manual no longer applies, since the decision to have a neutral or not is a design choice.

 

[justsam]

As an early adopter of home automation many years ago, I have been frustrated by "switch legs" in the past. I say it is about time codes caught up with what has been taking place the last twenty years.

Sure there is a small incremental add, but I would not be happy to rerun romex just because it was attic accessible. Code is a minimum expectation.

 

[Wirepuller]

The NEC should not be a design manual. It's a standard of minimums for safe electrical installations.

 

[justsam]

From 2011 code, art 404. From what I read quick it only applies for 3 and 4 way switches, with some other exceptions also. So it also depends on what code your state is up to.

Are three or four way included or excluded?

Since there are some configurations used today that do not have a hot or neutral in them, must both be provided?

Will there be a 14/4 or 14/5' or just run multiple romex?

 

[Cmreschke]

Neutral required at 3 ways and 4 ways. Or ability to add one if needed. This can be accomplished as your wiring it with 3 conductor cable. Eg. 14/3 in and 14/3 out at a 4 way switch would give you 2 pairs for travelers (in and out) and a spliced neutral. No need for 4 wire or 5 wire or whatever else you thought you needed.

Also it still doesn't create a design issue, it prevents hack electricians from hooking current to the ground wire.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Maryland , where gs8212 lives, is on the 2014 NEC as of Jan 1.

They've eased up a bit on the requirements.

One of those exceptions is that the neutral does need to be in the switchbox if it controls a receptacle.

They've also excepted other than habitable rooms. Which should be good news to the garage and shop folks.

 

[Cmreschke]

Is the requirement for a ground a design issue? Imo electricity works without ground. It is just safer with a proper ground.

 

[Mustang51js]

Are three or four way included or excluded?

Since there are some configurations used today that do not have a hot or neutral in them, must both be provided?

Will there be a 14/4 or 14/5' or just run multiple romex?

Included. I rarely run a switch set up without a neutral so it's something I don't worry about. A lot of older houses are set up that way though

 

[alfredeneuman]

Is the requirement for a ground a design issue? Imo electricity works without ground. It is just safer with a proper ground.

Absolutely not! It's mandatory.
The Code Article Grounding and Bonding is the largest one in the NEC.

 

[Cmreschke]

That was my point neuman. When grounding was first adopted I wonder if electricians and handy persons said the same thing. That the code book was moving towards a design manual. Now a days grounding isn't thought of as design but safety. A neutral at a switch location is not a design issue but a safety issue.

 

[Beemer533]

How is a neutral at a switch a safety issue?

 

[Norcal]

That was my point neuman. When grounding was first adopted I wonder if electricians and handy persons said the same thing. That the code book was moving towards a design manual. Now a days grounding isn't thought of as design but safety. A neutral at a switch location is not a design issue but a safety issue.

How is a neutral at a switch a safety issue?

It is not a safety issue, is is a design issue.

 

[Cmreschke]

It is no different than requiring a grouns.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Really? How can u compare the 2? Despite being bonded at the main service panel, the grounding conductor and grounded conductor have different purposes!

 

[Norcal]

It is no different than requiring a grouns.

Yes it is, a grounding conductor is required to provide a fault clearing path, the neutral in the switch box is a "what if".