Noob needs advice - concrete flooring

[Matasickle]

My concrete is in decent shape (no huge cracks or deep pits).. but I do have spots that are worn away/have dimples.
Here is what I mean:

What do you guys recommend to fix this up?
Will concrete resurfacer do the trick?

Something along the lines of this:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

My ultimate goal is to put an epoxy floor covering after all is said and done..
I just need to get to that step..

 

[dcs Inc]

Nothing against quikrete as they make good products to fill fence posts. Your biggest hurdle is prep. the concrete needs to be either shot blasted or spiral ground to get to a solid substrate. If this floor was spiral ground you could then go directly to your epoxy covering. A good penetrating epoxy primer and then a 100% solids top coat at around 18-20 mils (not this 250 sq. ft. a gallon joke) you will have a floor that will last. gene

 

[Matasickle]

Sorry for my complete ignorance on the subject, but how would I know if it was spiral ground?

I am a firm believer in doing something right the first time.

 

[billfig]

Sorry for my complete ignorance on the subject, but how would I know if it was spiral ground?

I am a firm believer in doing something right the first time.

I think what he means is having your existing floor either shot-blasted or spiral ground which are 2 different methods of preparing it for an upgrade. And if you choose to have it spiral ground, then you would/could just apply an epoxy sealer and a finished top coat paint/stain. By doing it this way, you would not even get involved with patching/using a concrete filler.

 

[Matasickle]

I think what he means is having your existing floor either shot-blasted or spiral ground which are 2 different methods of preparing it for an upgrade. And if you choose to have it spiral ground, then you would/could just apply an epoxy sealer and a finished top coat paint/stain. By doing it this way, you would not even get involved with patching/using a concrete filler.

I like the way that sounds.
Is spiral grounding something I can do myself with the right [rental] tool?

Also, is there temperature limitations on when I should do this.
Its in the 20s in CT.

 

[billfig]

Will need to hear the more knowledgeable chime in, since I don't know?
I had used HD topcoat in a couple small areas due to salt/pitting 10+ yrs.ago which has held up fine but the other 90% has degraded..Got a great/thick floor but I never had it sealed or anything when we built 25yrs ago. I may get it done one day since my Valspar garage floor paint is now quite crappy as well.

 

[ConCretin]

I'm not disagreeing with the prior posts but shot blasting and epoxy will be quite expensive.

If you are looking for something diy you might consider a simple overlay with a product such as Ardex CD, which is a pre packaged material that is pretty easy to work with and often provides a decent color match.

Prep would consist of mechanical removal of any loose material with a wire brush. You'd want to wet down the surface for 12 hours or so then remove standing water before you apply the patch material.

We've used these products under some pretty demanding applications and they stand up surprisingly well.

 

[Matasickle]

I'm not disagreeing with the prior posts but shot blasting and epoxy will be quite expensive.

If you are looking for something diy you might consider a simple overlay with a product such as Ardex CD, which is a pre packaged material that is pretty easy to work with and often provides a decent color match.

Prep would consist of mechanical removal of any loose material with a wire brush. You'd want to wet down the surface for 12 hours or so then remove standing water before you apply the patch material.

We've used these products under some pretty demanding applications and they stand up surprisingly well.

Oh yes, I should have mentioned that I am on a really, really tight budget.
So the cheaper the solution the better.
I know cheap and quality usually doesn't belong in the same sentence.
But this garage will be for light duty work. Working on my supermoto and doing oil changes in the car.. So I don't need anything industrial strength (unless I can do it for a reasonable cost).

So, Ardex CD is a concrete fix?.. I can still epoxy over it afterwards?

 

[ConCretin]

So, Ardex CD is a concrete fix?.. I can still epoxy over it afterwards?

The CD stands for 'concrete dressing'. You mix it with water and apply with a trowel. It feathers out really well making it good for shallow repairs such as yours.

To be honest, I don't recall if it has a bonding agent mixed in. If not, you could add Acryl 60 to your mix water to improve adhesion.

I'll leave the question regarding epoxy to others. I suspect that if you want an epoxy floor, they might suggest a different approach.

Good luck with your repair.

 

[Matasickle]

The CD stands for 'concrete dressing'. You mix it with water and apply with a trowel. It feathers out really well making it good for shallow repairs such as yours.

To be honest, I don't recall if it has a bonding agent mixed in. If not, you could add Acryl 60 to your mix water to improve adhesion.

I'll leave the question regarding epoxy to others. I suspect that if you want an epoxy floor, they might suggest a different approach.

Good luck with your repair.

Thank you for all your knowledge!
Greatly appreciated.

 

[dcs Inc]

You know, I keep forgetting... "I want the cheapest"... attitude on this forum. blows me away guys will spend a fortune of time and effort to get the crappiest product and the quickest application and think they got over on ? someone. "Beat the system" "cut costs" "got one hell of a deal"

There are no short cuts. You get what you pay for. I applaud guys that do the study, apply it themselves and reap the rewards of personal satisfaction. the rest of the group that will take a crappy product, smear it around and pat themselves on the back for "saving" big money....sheesh.

I come on here and share my knowledge, I don't push **** on you. I do sell a brand and as far as I'm concerned it is one of the best out there but I don't shove it down your throats.

There's right ways to do things, I'm just trying to help. Off may soap box. gene

 

[Matasickle]

You know, I keep forgetting... "I want the cheapest"... attitude on this forum. blows me away guys will spend a fortune of time and effort to get the crappiest product and the quickest application and think they got over on ? someone. "Beat the system" "cut costs" "got one hell of a deal"

There are no short cuts. You get what you pay for. I applaud guys that do the study, apply it themselves and reap the rewards of personal satisfaction. the rest of the group that will take a crappy product, smear it around and pat themselves on the back for "saving" big money....sheesh.

I come on here and share my knowledge, I don't push **** on you. I do sell a brand and as far as I'm concerned it is one of the best out there but I don't shove it down your throats.

There's right ways to do things, I'm just trying to help. Off may soap box. gene

Expensive/cheap is relative.

About how much would it be to do it the way you mentioned?
(My garage is 18'x22')

I appreciate all comments/tips/critiques.

 

[ConCretin]

You know, I keep forgetting... "I want the cheapest"... attitude on this forum. blows me away guys will spend a fortune of time and effort to get the crappiest product and the quickest application and think they got over on ? someone. "Beat the system" "cut costs" "got one hell of a deal"

There are no short cuts. You get what you pay for. I applaud guys that do the study, apply it themselves and reap the rewards of personal satisfaction. the rest of the group that will take a crappy product, smear it around and pat themselves on the back for "saving" big money....sheesh.

I come on here and share my knowledge, I don't push **** on you. I do sell a brand and as far as I'm concerned it is one of the best out there but I don't shove it down your throats.

There's right ways to do things, I'm just trying to help. Off may soap box. gene

Wow. Take it easy friend. Maybe the guy doesn't want to take out a second mortgage to fix his delaminated garage floor. Shotblasting? Really??.

 

[Matasickle]

Yeah, my garage is not going to win any award.. I just want to make it cleaner and such.

Here is a crappy picture of what it looks like so far:

 

[ConCretin]

Metasickle, to get back on the subject of your post. If you have the bucks, a lot of them, then dcs presents a great alternative and you'll have a beautiful floor. My only word of caution would be this; if you aren't sure your floor has a good vapor barrier, don't install an epoxy floor system.

If you want a simple, inexpensive solution, the option I suggested would work fine.

 

[Matasickle]

Yes.. I am basically working on a college budget (maybe slightly better).
Def. don't have money to throw around.. plus I will be paying some wedding bills soon.

Also, I have no idea about vapor barrier.. not even sure what that is.

 

[ConCretin]

A vapor barrier is a membrane that blocks water vapor in the soil from moving through your slab. It is most typically a polyethylene sheet laid on the ground under a slab before it is placed.

If your slab doesn't have a vapor barrier, impermeable floor coverings, including epoxies are unlikely to adhere to the slab.

There are topical products that can be applied to the slab surface to block moisture and protect floor coverings but personally, I'm a bit skeptical of their effectiveness.

For what it's worth, cementitiuos products such as Ardex are less likely to be dislodged by water vapor because they breathe more than plastic like products such as epoxy.

 

[Matasickle]

I would hope that the condos I live in had a vapor barrier installed when they were built!

 

[Matasickle]

I am really eyeing the epoxy-coat product. $500 is up there.. but I've heard such good things.

 

[thegarageguy]

@dcs inc, you can explain the pitfalls of going cheap and fast till you are blue in the face, some people just hold cost in a much higher priority than quality.

@LLWillysfan, I wish you would refrain from giving opinions of what you have absolutely no clue about. I've been installing negative side vapor barriers for years without any problems. I've helped Companies R&D the systems before they where commercially available. They work! As far as Ardex or any other polymer modified cement, its always best to diamond grind prior. You may be able to get away from not having to on a surface that will only see foot traffic but in a garage, why cut corners? If you want to just flash patch the detiriorated areas, there are much better and cheaper products than Ardex CD. That product doesn't reach it's max compression strength until 28 days and is only 4000 lbs. That product is good for resurfacing sidewalks for broom finishes and it still needs to be sealed.

Matasickle, if your desired end result is an epoxy finish, then diamond grind the whole floor, get some patching material that is recommended or compatible with the epoxy you will use and coat your garage floor as desired. Epoxy coat, Legacy, whomever makes you feel better.

My 2 cents....Peace

 

[ConCretin]

@LLWillysfan, I wish you would refrain from giving opinions of what you have absolutely no clue about. I've been installing negative side vapor barriers for years without any problems. I've helped Companies R&D the systems before they where commercially available. They work! As far as Ardex or any other polymer modified cement, its always best to diamond grind prior. You may be able to get away from not having to on a surface that will only see foot traffic but in a garage, why cut corners? If you want to just flash patch the detiriorated areas, there are much better and cheaper products than Ardex CD. That product doesn't reach it's max compression strength until 28 days and is only 4000 lbs. That product is good for resurfacing sidewalks for broom finishes and it still needs to be sealed

My company has done millions of dollars in surface rehabilitation of bridge decks, parking garages, etc. Your tiresome personal attacks notwithstanding, I offered the OP perfectly reasonable advice based on his criteria.

He has a delaminated slab he wants to repair without spending a lot of money. He doesn't need to shot blast or diamond grind to get adhesion. We put heavy truck traffic on bridge decks within hours of patching with far less surface prep.

Ardex and other cementitious products cost far less than the options you would propose without any worry of under slab or topically applied vapor barriers. They would reach a serviceable compressive strength that exceeds the substrate in a few days.

I made clear that there were methods and products that would give him a better looking floor but it is pretty clear he doesn't want to dump a bunch of money.

It's too bad you can't just offer an opinion on here without all the drama.

 

[thegarageguy]

Not personally attacking you, just stating the fact that you do not know much about water proofing primers. You said you are skeptical of them. Sure he can patch with the product you suggested but he will still need to seal it for it to last. Read the technical data sheet of the product you suggested.

We use plenty of cementitious products, Ardex being one of them. What's the use of putting a "breathable" cementitious product if he wants to epoxy it anyway? And if there is a moisture issue, there is no other way to apply an epoxy system unless he waterproofs it first. There are breathable epoxy systems but they are water based, very thin and I wouldn't recommend them for a garage.

Concrete repair products have their place, especially for seamless flooring contractors as myself but they do not eliminate the need for a correct flooring system.

P.S. Don't be so dismissive of our methods and or systems. Yes, diamond grinding and shot blasting concrete is the correct preparation process for a resinous system according to icri.org

 

[ConCretin]

I'm not dismissive of your products or methods at all. Quite the opposite, I'm sure the work you do is top of the line including the surface applied vapor barriers. They are also quite expensive. Just the shot blasting would cost many times more than the Ardex.

Given the cost, I think it is unlikely that the OP was going call you or someone like you. He was going to go down to the builders supply and buy something to put down on his floor. I don't see him pulling off a topical vapor barrier and epoxy based repair. I think he'd be happier with a simpler, less expensive approach.

If he has the bucks for an epoxy floor in the future, he can address his surface issues at that time including the delaminated surface and the Ardex.

Obviously a surface repair with a product like Ardex is not in the same league with a professionally applied epoxy system. I was just suggesting an economical fix in response the the OP's question.

 

[Matasickle]

Let's throw a monkey wrench in this heated thread..
How about some VersaRoll PVC Flooring?
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...=4&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

 

[ConCretin]

I'm gonna wait for GarageGuy to respond and then say the opposite. Just kidding.....I'm just kidding!

Sorry for all the drama Matasickle. Hopefully you found some valuable information in there somewhere. Me and GarageGuy have these little debates sometimes but he does know his stuff.

 

[Matasickle]

I'm gonna wait for GarageGuy to respond and then say the opposite. Just kidding.....I'm just kidding!

I will still probably use the Ardex CD before I lay down the PVC.

 

[thegarageguy]

GarageGuy does know his stuff.

I wish I can say the same for LLWillysfan...............JUST KIDDING AS WELL!

Seriously, I appreciate his experience and contribution to this site.

Now, as far as pvc roll out flooring....don't waste your money

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

I can hear the theme song to the Walton's....
"good night John Boy".

 

[Matasickle]

I wish I can say the same for LLWillysfan...............JUST KIDDING AS WELL!

Seriously, I appreciate his experience and contribution to this site.

Now, as far as pvc roll out flooring....don't waste your money

That bad, eh?

Well, I've changed my mind enough times already.. maybe I can just save up some more pennies (hold out on a flooring for a bit) and get the MotoFloor kit from Costco.

It looks like just the tiles/edge pieces will run me close to $1,200.00

What has to be done if I am laying that down?

 

[Chez]

Hey how about just using a really good hard ceramic or porcelain tile ?? with maybe an epoxy grout ??

 

[Matasickle]

Hey how about just using a really good hard ceramic or porcelain tile ?? with maybe an epoxy grout ??

Yep.. would love to do that.
It would be really good practice for when I redo the kitchen.
What constitutes a "really good hard ceramic or porcelain" tile?
I'd like to stay in the $1/sq ft area for tile.

How would this be? The price looks very right!
http://www.builddirect.com/Porcelain-Tile/-Fenice/ProductDisplay_6933_p1_10078080.aspx

EDIT: well it would be an awesome deal if the shipping wasn''t $770

 

[Matasickle]

http://www.lowes.com/pd_239474-4760...celain+tile&Ns=p_product_price|0&facetInfo=12

Is this worth it? 8mm thick?
I have a 10% off lowes coupon.