Noob Question: Arc Gouging

[Hoopy Frood]

Greetings Everyone!

I'm a homesteader on a very tight budget. A friend gifted me a nice late-80s vintage Craftsman AC (240V) buzzbox. Obviously a tool with limitations, but it's in real nice shape. I do need to get some welding projects done, so I'm going to run with this guy.

My entire welding "experience" was a 20-course class I took some 18 months ago and never followed up on. A lot of the knowledge (limited though it was) evaporated from disuse in that time. However I think I've cleared the cobwebs on other forum recently; ready to get to work!

I'm collecting scrap for practice right now. I have a couple very basic newbie projects lined up, too. The first one I want to tackle is a pallet wrecking bar. I'm going to need to cut big notches in (likely) 1/4" mild steel plates for the prying ends.

Here's the question: in the hazy fog of my memory of that class, I recall one class on arc gouging. I've looked it up online and everything I find is "air (carbon) arc gouging" where a jet of pressurized air is used to clear the molten metal. But what I remember from that class is we just stuck a copper-clad graphite rod into the stinger of a SMAW machine and just started burning through scrap plates.

Am I remembering right? Is there a way to just use a stick and do rough cutting? Or have I been smoking too much in those 18 months and I'm plumb off my rocker?

I don't have the funds to get into a nicer cutting solution like oxy/acetylene or plasma. But it would be nice to have a cutting solution other than the cutting wheel on my 4 1/2" angle grinder - even if it's rough/heavy handed.

Thank you in advance for any wisdom you care to share!

 

[jsaw]

A carbon arc gouger will work , but it will leave a rough cut with lots of slag that will need to be ground smooth when you are done. So you will need the grinder anyway, personaly I would rather use a cut off wheel in a grinder.

 

[gearhead1]

I’ve used large welding rods and cranked the amps up to rough cut.

Have any flea markets? I’ve pieced together torch sets from flea markets.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

A carbon arc gouger will work , but it will leave a rough cut with lots of slag that will need to be ground smooth when you are done. So you will need the grinder anyway, personaly I would rather use a cut off wheel in a grinder.

Gotcha. Thanks for the information!

It's the "overcut" (I have no idea what the technical name is) you get with a circular blade; the curvature that forces you cut farther into one surface of flat stock to complete a cut on the other surface... That's what I'm trying to eliminate.

Rough edges are fine. I'll take the time to grind with the angle grinder and rotary grinder as needed. Personal style... Cutoff wheel work is far more picky (about cutting angle) in 1/4" flat stock then a gouging rod. I'd rather hog through the rough stuff with a gouging rod, then spend extra time cleaning up than being meticulous on the rough cut just to prevent shattering cutoff wheels (and dealing with the "overcut").

But that's just me. At least it sounds like I'm not off my rocker about stick gouging rods being a thing!

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I’ve used large welding rods and cranked the amps up to rough cut.

Have any flea markets? I’ve pieced together torch sets from flea markets.

Hehe! Hopefully I don't have to take that approach, but it's awesome to know it can work!

Normally I do not have access to flea markets. But now knowing that that tactic can work, I'll keep my eyes peeled. The setup will be worth it! So what if it takes a year or two to piece together

I may just have to adopt that approach right away!

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

No need for air arc. Just get some 6011 and turn the buzz box all the way up. Then do a in and out with the electrode in a sort of sawing motion. Then just dress your cut up with a grinder. It will surprise you how well it can work, when you get the hang of it.

 

[Bondo]

Gotcha. Thanks for the information!

It's the "overcut" (I have no idea what the technical name is) you get with a circular blade; the curvature that forces you cut farther into one surface of flat stock to complete a cut on the other surface... That's what I'm trying to eliminate.

Rough edges are fine. I'll take the time to grind with the angle grinder and rotary grinder as needed. Personal style... Cutoff wheel work is far more picky (about cutting angle) in 1/4" flat stock then a gouging rod. I'd rather hog through the rough stuff with a gouging rod, then spend extra time cleaning up than being meticulous on the rough cut just to prevent shattering cutoff wheels (and dealing with the "overcut").

But that's just me. At least it sounds like I'm not off my rocker about stick gouging rods being a thing!

Ayuh,.... On steel as thin as 1/4", the Kerft from arc gouging will be 1/2" or so,....
The kerft from a cut-off wheel would be 1/16" or 1/8" or 1/4" dependin' on yer choice of wheel,.....

Gougin' is good for Thick steel, so long as ya got enough material to make up for the huge losses from the cuts,....
Say 1" thick, 'n up,....

 

[racingtadpole]

If the curvature of the grinder blade is an issue for you then you have two choices. You can either learn to use the grinder properly (at which point you will see there actually isn’t an issue) or you can drill a hole at the intersection and cut into that. Arc gouging has no real use outside of heavy industrial applications such as cutting teeth off Liebherr buckets you can drive a passenger car into..

Could just be that the only times I’ve seen it being used is replacing wear points on mining equipment

 

[Hoopy Frood]

If the curvature of the grinder blade is an issue for you then you have two choices. You can either learn to use the grinder properly (at which point you will see there actually isn’t an issue)...

Hmmm... that might be the issue. I just picked up an angle grinder and started using it. No one ever showed me how to actually use one.

IF you have the time an inclination, perhaps you can educate me?

Let's say I wanted to cut a 2"x1" slot in the middle of a 3"x3" plate (say 1/4" or 3/8" plate, if that makes any difference) to make a U-shape:
__ __
| | | |
| |_| |
|____|

[EDIT: sorry I can't make the diagram display correctly. Hopefully you get the idea.] I can't see how a 4 1/2" cutoff wheel could cut that 1" wide seat cut without also cutting into the legs, too. Am I missing something? That's an example of the kind of thing I was thinking gouging could help me with... though now it sounds like on 1/4" plate, gouging would be too rough to do a small cut like that?

It may be moot at this point, but a final question: all the gouging electrodes I can find are for DC. Is there such a thing as an AC gouging electrode? If not is there any chance a DC gouging electrode will work in a buzzbox?

Regardless it sounds like the high-current 6011 "gouge" might be the best way to go..

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone! This is very helpful stuff!

 

[freshintulsa]

Hello Hoopy Frood. First off, to arc gouge you will need a special electrode holder, such as this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005F48LES/?tag=atomicindus08-20

This allow the current AND the compressed air to flow through to the cutting electrode. Its primarily used for heavy industrial/pipe settings, though it is helpful for much more.

In your scenario, I would opt for a simple oxy/acetylene torch set up. With a good torch and multiple tips, you can do many operations. Heating, welding, cutting, removing material (scarfing/gouging) as well as countless other uses can be had with a simple torch.

As to you question regarding cutting a slot with the cut off wheel on an angle grinder, the cut you mentioned would be very difficult with a grinder. If I were to make that cut, I would either drill a 1" hole and cut the 2" length with the grinder, though even that takes skill/caution to not cut into the base metal past the slot. This is where a torch would come in handy (cut the whole slot with the torch!). You can also drill small holes in the corner and use a jig saw/air saw to cut from hole to hole.

There are so many little "tricks" that simply take years of experience to learn. Though, with such awesome forums as this you can just post up what you're trying to do and you'll get many options from professionals to weekend warriors that have done exactly what you are trying.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide to do and post pics of the completed project!

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Hello Hoopy Frood. First off, to arc gouge you will need a special electrode holder, such as this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005F48LES/?tag=atomicindus08-20

This allow the current AND the compressed air to flow through to the cutting electrode. Its primarily used for heavy industrial/pipe settings, though it is helpful for much more.

In your scenario, I would opt for a simple oxy/acetylene torch set up. With a good torch and multiple tips, you can do many operations. Heating, welding, cutting, removing material (scarfing/gouging) as well as countless other uses can be had with a simple torch.

As to you question regarding cutting a slot with the cut off wheel on an angle grinder, the cut you mentioned would be very difficult with a grinder. If I were to make that cut, I would either drill a 1" hole and cut the 2" length with the grinder, though even that takes skill/caution to not cut into the base metal past the slot. This is where a torch would come in handy (cut the whole slot with the torch!). You can also drill small holes in the corner and use a jig saw/air saw to cut from hole to hole.

There are so many little "tricks" that simply take years of experience to learn. Though, with such awesome forums as this you can just post up what you're trying to do and you'll get many options from professionals to weekend warriors that have done exactly what you are trying.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide to do and post pics of the completed project!

Thank you for the tips! Unfortunately my budget limitations prevent me from getting the right tools right away. I will try to piece them together over time of course!

You're drilling solution is a good one! Of course I don't have any drill bit larger than 1/2", nor a drill with a 1/2" chuck, nor a drill press, nor a shop to work in...

Hehe... I'm really starting from the ground up!

I very much appreciate all of you and the whole GJ community for offering all your experience and wisdom to those of us just starting out!!

 

[Whiskeymike]

You're drilling solution is a good one! Of course I don't have any drill bit larger than 1/2", nor a drill with a 1/2" chuck, nor a drill press, nor a shop to work in...

Just use a cheap hole saw drill bit. Small shaft, big hole. Lubricate as you drill.

 

[bczygan]

Hand drill small holes at corners.

Hand held jigsaw sides.

Hand file corners square and rough sides smooth.

Bill

 

[speed bump]

Hmmm... that might be the issue. I just picked up an angle grinder and started using it. No one ever showed me how to actually use one.

IF you have the time an inclination, perhaps you can educate me?

Let's say I wanted to cut a 2"x1" slot in the middle of a 3"x3" plate (say 1/4" or 3/8" plate, if that makes any difference) to make a U-shape:
__ __
| | | |
| |_| |
|____|

[EDIT: sorry I can't make the diagram display correctly. Hopefully you get the idea.] I can't see how a 4 1/2" cutoff wheel could cut that 1" wide seat cut without also cutting into the legs, too. Am I missing something? That's an example of the kind of thing I was thinking gouging could help me with... though now it sounds like on 1/4" plate, gouging would be too rough to do a small cut like that?

It may be moot at this point, but a final question: all the gouging electrodes I can find are for DC. Is there such a thing as an AC gouging electrode? If not is there any chance a DC gouging electrode will work in a buzzbox?

Regardless it sounds like the high-current 6011 "gouge" might be the best way to go..

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone! This is very helpful stuff!

I save cutoff wheels as they get smaller for this kind of task. Cut from one side, then from the other as deep as you can. Knock out the piece and clean up with a grinding disc. Most practical metal fabrication isn't as pretty as the internet would have you believe.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Perfect. More great tips! Thank you so much, everyone!!

 

[PugetDude]

Many years ago when I was a homesteader on a very tight budget (aka a broke kid fresh out of college) I used to cut steel all the time with my Lincoln buzz box. I bought a 50# box of 5/32" 7018 welding rod at a thrift store that had gotten damp (shop didn't store the opened box in a rod oven) and just turned my welder up to 225Amps. As hefnerconstruction mentioned, you strike an arc, deliberately burn through, and then keep retracting/plunging the rod to keep the kerf open. You can actually follow a line with this technique, although it does leave a pretty wide kerf with lots of drippy slag on the edges- which you can knock off with the angle grinder.

As far a set of tanks, you can pick up a used cutting rig pretty cheap, I'd look into oxy/propane for cutting. Uses a common bbq tank and an oxygen bottle, most weld shops will sell you a propane cutting tip to fit the most common torches. Saves the cost of the acetylene bottle, and propane is cheap and readily available. You won't be able to weld with it, but it's great for heating and cutting.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Many years ago when I was a homesteader on a very tight budget (aka a broke kid fresh out of college) I used to cut steel all the time with my Lincoln buzz box. I bought a 50# box of 5/32" 7018 welding rod at a thrift store that had gotten damp (shop didn't store the opened box in a rod oven) and just turned my welder up to 225Amps. As hefnerconstruction mentioned, you strike an arc, deliberately burn through, and then keep retracting/plunging the rod to keep the kerf open. You can actually follow a line with this technique, although it does leave a pretty wide kerf with lots of drippy slag on the edges- which you can knock off with the angle grinder.

As far a set of tanks, you can pick up a used cutting rig pretty cheap, I'd look into oxy/propane for cutting. Uses a common bbq tank and an oxygen bottle, most weld shops will sell you a propane cutting tip to fit the most common torches. Saves the cost of the acetylene bottle, and propane is cheap and readily available. You won't be able to weld with it, but it's great for heating and cutting.

Awesome! I wish I had my scrap on hand right now so I could get started I'll be picking it up this week. Depending on what I get my hands on I'll finish up the pallet wrecking bar design. Then hopefully I'll get that put together if not this week, early next.

And thanks for the tips on the propane setup! I had not heard of that. My existing 120 gal propane tank is plumbed into a quick disconnect stub already (for outdoor cooking equipment). So maybe I'm halfway there!

 

[sberry]

Cooking and heating equipment runs at a different pressure than a torch. Use a 20# or better bottle and a torch regulator.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Cooking and heating equipment runs at a different pressure than a torch. Use a 20# or better bottle and a torch regulator.

Ah... Go figure Thanks for the tips!

 

[PugetDude]

Awesome! I wish I had my scrap on hand right now so I could get started I'll be picking it up this week. Depending on what I get my hands on I'll finish up the pallet wrecking bar design. Then hopefully I'll get that put together if not this week, early next.

And thanks for the tips on the propane setup! I had not heard of that. My existing 120 gal propane tank is plumbed into a quick disconnect stub already (for outdoor cooking equipment). So maybe I'm halfway there!

I made a wrecking bar once with a piece of 1-1/2" pipe about 6"-8" long, welded a couple of pieces of 1" rebar about 6" long on each end, perpendicular to the pipe to form the "U". Then welded a 1" pipe handle about 4' long on the middle of the pipe at about a 45 degree angle to the rebar to use as a handle. It worked really well, the round pipe make a nice fulcrum to pull against, and it "rolls" the boards up and off...

Scrap pipe and rebar are sometimes easier to find than heavy plate.

Good luck. Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[MShaw]

If you are cutting with stick rods they will last longer if you soak them in water before using. Trick I learned more years ago than I care to mention.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I made a wrecking bar once with a piece of 1-1/2" pipe about 6"-8" long, welded a couple of pieces of 1" rebar about 6" long on each end, perpendicular to the pipe to form the "U". Then welded a 1" pipe handle about 4' long on the middle of the pipe at about a 45 degree angle to the rebar to use as a handle. It worked really well, the round pipe make a nice fulcrum to pull against, and it "rolls" the boards up and off...

Scrap pipe and rebar are sometimes easier to find than heavy plate.

Good luck. Keep us posted on your progress.

More great info, thank you! The designs I've been looking at online that I'm going try to emulate do indeed have a round pivot point; seems like a really good idea!

It will be interesting to see what scrap I can find!

 

[Hoopy Frood]

If you are cutting with stick rods they will last longer if you soak them in water before using. Trick I learned more years ago than I care to mention.

Wow! This is not something I've ever heard anyone mention. I'll have to do some experiments!

 

[jsaw]

You might pick up a cheap 3 inch cut off tool for mukng smaller cuts on smallet parts.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

You might pick up a cheap 3 inch cut off tool for mukng smaller cuts on smallet parts.

I do have a pneumatic 3" cutting wheel (and a plain old Dremmel with 1" wheels) for exactly that reason. It technically "runs" on my 17 gallon compressor, but not well for continuous cutting. It's just a cheap-o from Harbor Freight so I didn't even bother returning it. Even though it's not great, it does see some use for sure. I think I spent something like $15 on it, so I can't complain

 

[joe49]

The copper type rods you mention are Slice rods. Kind of out of the home shop category.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/items/?_nkw=slice+torch&_sacat=&_ex_kw=&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_sop=12&_fpos=&_fspt=1&_sadis=&LH_CAds=&rmvSB=true
Just below the Slice is a Airarc. Also not a cheap option as besides the unit cost their are consumables needed, and O2 source and compressed air.
As for you Airarc haters all you've done is show your lack of knowledge of the process and all it's uses.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

The copper type rods you mention are Slice rods. Kind of out of the home shop category.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/items/?_nkw=slice+torch&_sacat=&_ex_kw=&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_sop=12&_fpos=&_fspt=1&_sadis=&LH_CAds=&rmvSB=true
Just below the Slice is a Airarc. Also not a cheap option as besides the unit cost their are consumables needed, and O2 source and compressed air.
As for you Airarc haters all you've done is show your lack of knowledge of the process and all it's uses.

Wow! I knew it would cost a bit but I wasn't expecting that much! Definitely financially out-of-reach for me for now. I just gotta win that lottery so I can build a garage so I can have a home for all all the tools I (don't yet know) that I need!

 

[PugetDude]

As for you Airarc haters all you've done is show your lack of knowledge of the process and all it's uses.

joe49, went back and re-read this thread, didn't see any "air arc haters"; just a few helpful suggestions to a guy on a shoestring budget trying to cut some heavy steel. Not everyone works in a professional weld shop or has $20K+ in welding equipment in their garage...

FWIW I've worked in steel fab shops that regularly welded plate up to 4" thick, 100% X-ray quality welds..., we'd back-gouge the root pass with an air-arc before laying down multiple passes with 3/8" wire using submerged arc in a rotary positioner...with iron powder to speed up deposition rates.

Guess I should have suggested he use these processes for a cheap wrecking bar to knock pallets apart...

 

[jsaw]

I have some of the carbon sticks that I put in my electrode holder and use it to heat metal instead of using a torch.
You can also use a small carbon stick to heat metal to join it using everdur rods . The guy that told me about it said that it was a low temperature process to join galvanized roofing without burning the galvanizing off.

Google carbon arc welding. Probably obsolete in todays world, but sometimes if you are on a limited budget, you do what you gotta do to get stuff done.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I have some of the carbon sticks that I put in my electrode holder and use it to heat metal instead of using a torch.
You can also use a small carbon stick to heat metal to join it using everdur rods . The guy that told me about it said that it was a low temperature process to join galvanized roofing without burning the galvanizing off.

Google carbon arc welding. Probably obsolete in todays world, but sometimes if you are on a limited budget, you do what you gotta do to get stuff done.

Again more things I was not aware of - thank you for sharing! More to add to the research pile

Going to do my first scrap runs at a couple places tomorrow. Wish me luck!

 

[joe49]

joe49, went back and re-read this thread, didn't see any "air arc haters"; just a few helpful suggestions to a guy on a shoestring budget trying to cut some heavy steel. Not everyone works in a professional weld shop or has $20K+ in welding equipment in their garage...

FWIW I've worked in steel fab shops that regularly welded plate up to 4" thick, 100% X-ray quality welds..., we'd back-gouge the root pass with an air-arc before laying down multiple passes with 3/8" wire using submerged arc in a rotary positioner...with iron powder to speed up deposition rates.

Guess I should have suggested he use these processes for a cheap wrecking bar to knock pallets apart...

My post includes past and future haters. Since you've re-skimmed the thread, you could go back to posts 2 and 8 and have a look. FWIW watching a machine weld and it producing sound welds isn't very impressive. Impress us with tales of being the guy who get's sent to do the field repairs of some of those welds. In undesirable conditions, doing out of position gouging and welding or my favorite doing it while below the weldment and little rain, sleet, or snow is a real plus.
OP as several have said the over amped rods will be your cheapest way likely.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

My post includes past and future haters.
...
OP as several have said the over amped rods will be your cheapest way likely.

Yes, indeed! I've had more than one person recommend the soaking, too. That should definitely be enough to get me started Thanks!

 

[Lelandwelds]

Here's the question: in the hazy fog of my memory of that class, I recall one class on arc gouging. I've looked it up online and everything I find is "air (carbon) arc gouging" where a jet of pressurized air is used to clear the molten metal. But what I remember from that class is we just stuck a copper-clad graphite rod into the stinger of a SMAW machine and just started burning through scrap plates.

Am I remembering right? Is there a way to just use a stick and do rough cutting? Or have I been smoking too much in those 18 months and I'm plumb off my rocker?
:

There are three types of gouging rods:

1: air carbon arc (blow arc) electricity melts. Shop air blows it away. It will fry your buzz box from exceeding duty cycle. Great for hard facing. Noisy.
2. Airless gouging rods. The coating makesa gas and your hand makes a sawing motion. Made by UTP, Eutectic, etc. Kinda slow and expensive..
3. Burning bars (like in Thunderbolt and Lightfoot used to break into the bank vault. Or, was that the antiaircraft gun?) Uses 60 psi oxygen and welder or battery to ignite. Will vaporize concrete. (Slice is a mini version.) Noxious fumes.
4. No idea where underwater torches fit in (maybe #3?)

Usually used for hard and heavy metals. Borrow a torch or a grinder.

Mild steel is a bit soft for a pry bar. I would start with something with a little more carbon content.

Have you thought of just plunking down some cash? Stanley mfg bars from $5 to $30. Pry bars are a pretty mature product design. Is there a hardware store still in business in your hood? Home Depot even stocks some good ones.

 

[ratdoggy]

No need for air arc. Just get some 6011 and turn the buzz box all the way up. Then do a in and out with the electrode in a sort of sawing motion. Then just dress your cut up with a grinder. It will surprise you how well it can work, when you get the hang of it.

Cuts pretty well actually....But it's not "clean" when you're done.
But if it's what you have it works

 

[ratdoggy]

BTW i see you mentioned an air 3" cutting tool... Buy an electric one at Harbor freight. They work pretty well and when it's burnt out you toss it I think $15 or so
With some flapper wheels,grinding wheel and cut off wheels you'd be good

 

[Lelandwelds]

I have some of the carbon sticks that I put in my electrode holder and use it to heat metal instead of using a torch.
You can also use a small carbon stick to heat metal to join it using everdur rods . The guy that told me about it said that it was a low temperature process to join galvanized roofing without burning the galvanizing off.

Google carbon arc welding. Probably obsolete in todays world, but sometimes if you are on a limited budget, you do what you gotta do to get stuff done.

Wow. Blast from the past. There were three I think:

1. One used a large diameter rod of about half inch. It heated metals up to soldering point. Special torch. Something still like it is used on an industrial scale to produce tons of high purity steel alloys.

2. Another used two carbon rods in the same holder but no ground clamp. You touched the rods together and the trigger moved them apart with the arc jumping the gap. I have only seen it done to temper steels. Special torch.

3. Atomic hydrogen was like #2 but used a hydrogen shielding gas and a special torch. It gave a fan shaped arc that was perfect for satellite overlays on cutters or valve seats. Lots of excess heat on operator but perfect thin deposits on base metal. Replaced by powder sprayed processes.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

There are three types of gouging rods:

1: air carbon arc (blow arc) electricity melts. Shop air blows it away. It will fry your buzz box from exceeding duty cycle. Great for hard facing. Noisy.
2. Airless gouging rods. The coating makesa gas and your hand makes a sawing motion. Made by UTP, Eutectic, etc. Kinda slow and expensive..
3. Burning bars (like in Thunderbolt and Lightfoot used to break into the bank vault. Or, was that the antiaircraft gun?) Uses 60 psi oxygen and welder or battery to ignite. Will vaporize concrete. (Slice is a mini version.) Noxious fumes.
4. No idea where underwater torches fit in (maybe #3?)

Usually used for hard and heavy metals. Borrow a torch or a grinder.

Mild steel is a bit soft for a pry bar. I would start with something with a little more carbon content.

Have you thought of just plunking down some cash? Stanley mfg bars from $5 to $30. Pry bars are a pretty mature product design. Is there a hardware store still in business in your hood? Home Depot even stocks some good ones.

Thanks for the rundown on the rods! Very helpful! I'm set on the grinding front (I think). I have frequently been "that guy" that borrows things from friends. Of course they're very nice about it, but I REALLY try to limit that to when I'm really facing a challenge. They've put years (even decades) into their shops... so I try to be careful about imposing when I'm not even a couple years into my homesteading efforts.

I'm trying to avoid spending cash except when I need to (long story). For instance I am spending money on getting my welding setup going because it should pay big dividends going forward, not only in terms of getting projects completed, but in becoming more self-reliant, too.

Building a prybar is not so much about saving the money (I know I can get a NICE, purpose-build, pallet wrecking bar for $40-$80)... but it's an excuse to actually START welding (including sourcing/storing materials and designing). And it's an opportunity to start welding without touching something critical like my exhaust or suspension systems

But thank you for the information and thoughts! Good stuff!

 

[PugetDude]

My post includes past and future haters. Since you've re-skimmed the thread, you could go back to posts 2 and 8 and have a look. FWIW watching a machine weld and it producing sound welds isn't very impressive. Impress us with tales of being the guy who get's sent to do the field repairs of some of those welds. In undesirable conditions, doing out of position gouging and welding or my favorite doing it while below the weldment and little rain, sleet, or snow is a real plus.
OP as several have said the over amped rods will be your cheapest way likely.

Re-read both posts, while not waxing poetic about the merits of the process, neither strike me as being written by "air arc haters" . I'm not trying to impress anyone, didn't even realize this was a contest, but you're clearly the winner for the biggest chip on their shoulder... . I'm Just trying to help a guy cut up some steel on the cheap... where's my participation trophy, dammit?

 

[joe49]

Couldn't help myself, you did ask.

 

[PugetDude]

Couldn't help myself, you did ask.

Nice trophy! Especially like the pedestal, bet you made it yourself- welded out-of position under the bridge, in the freezing rain...