Noobs 4 post lift questions (leveling advice)

[PM-Performance]

I have been a lurker for awhile, just signed up so I can see pics and research more.

So I have a mere plebian 19.5x19.5 garage with a post in the middle that has ruined my enjoyment of having a garage. I have always wanted a lift and after MUCH deliberation I finally purchased and finished installing my 4 post lift.

After tinkering with this quite a bit today trying to level, I found out my garage has about a 2" slope from the house. So I thought ahead and got a lift with adjustable ladder racks thinking ahead of time that nothing is ever even.
So I think I finally got the runways level both front to back and side to side, but I am encountering a good bit of lean on the posts. I will describe this as positive caster). If I go up higher, I lose level front to back again which is driving me nuts!
My hunch is that the slop inside the posts to allow the rails in and the pitch change is causing things to be off, but looking for advice on anything I could be missing?
Admittingly, I do not have a good level, so I have been working with a 2' level, but my guess is the values would be similar regardless.

Is the only answer bolting the legs in? I was considering this after I had the car on it a few times to verify where I want everything, but Im not sure I want to yet.

PS: Yes I know I need to adjust my garage door rails and remove my garage door opener and move to a side mount. Steady purging of money in the next couple weeks.

 

[nmk_61802]

If I am reading your question correctly, the posts will always be unlevel. They will be perpendicular to the floor, unless you shim them. Otherwise the best you can do is move the ladders up and down to get the ramps close to level in all travel positions. It doesn't need to be perfect, as long a all of the locks engage close to the same time.

 

[Daedalus]

I'm in the same boat, with the same lift it looks like. I've been working around it, making sure it's where I want it. I will be bolting it down with threaded insert anchors once I'm pretty confident in its location, and using slotted shims to get vertical, then adjusting the stops and cable nuts on the 4 corners to get them level. I will be working 1 corner at a time and working the lift up and down between anchors to make sure the other corners are positioned correctly and nothing is rubbing/binding.

 

[PM-Performance]

If I am reading your question correctly, the posts will always be unlevel. They will be perpendicular to the floor, unless you shim them. Otherwise the best you can do is move the ladders up and down to get the ramps close to level in all travel positions. It doesn't need to be perfect, as long a all of the locks engage close to the same time.

So I was hoping that the adjustments of the ladder racks would have worked it out since its not a drastic slope and just an overall slope. I guess not though.
Yea they are decently close now, but I didnt want to put the car on it until I was 100% sure

I'm in the same boat, with the same lift it looks like. I've been working around it, making sure it's where I want it. I will be bolting it down with threaded insert anchors once I'm pretty confident in its location, and using slotted shims to get vertical, then adjusting the stops and cable nuts on the 4 corners to get them level. I will be working 1 corner at a time and working the lift up and down between anchors to make sure the other corners are positioned correctly and nothing is rubbing/binding.

Did yours come with shims? mine did not.
Are you currently using the lift as is with a car on it? No worries other than the unsettlingness of the rocking/swaying?

 

[Daedalus]

Mine came with some really thin shims, but I also have a set that came with my other lift that weren't needed. My lean isn't as bad as yours and I'm thinking it'll be close enough. I've had it up and down several times, but no car on it yet.

 

[PM-Performance]

Mine came with some really thin shims, but I also have a set that came with my other lift that weren't needed. My lean isn't as bad as yours and I'm thinking it'll be close enough. I've had it up and down several times, but no car on it yet.

Mine did not come with any shims, nor did it come with instructions and the instructions on their website appear to have been for some different iteration build. I kinda just winged the install by what made sense.
Maybe I will see if I can grab shims or see if the place I bought from can supply them.

 

[wssix99]

I found out my garage has about a 2" slope from the house.

This is normal and is required by code in some localities. Slopes of 1/8" to 1/4" per foot are common.

I have the same situation in my garage. I made a measured drawing of my lift feet and took it to a metal fabricator. The used a robotic plasma cutter and made perfect shims for me out of stock in varying thicknesses. I recall that I got some 1/16", 1/8", 1/4", 1/2", and 1" pieces and just stacked them up to get my legs perfectly level. Once I used the shims, leveling the lift was a cinch. (I also got some longer bolts and bolted through the shims to keep everything together.

 

[PM-Performance]

This is normal and is required by code in some localities. Slopes of 1/8" to 1/4" per foot are common.

I have the same situation in my garage. I made a measured drawing of my lift feet and took it to a metal fabricator. The used a robotic plasma cutter and made perfect shims for me out of stock in varying thicknesses. I recall that I got some 1/16", 1/8", 1/4", 1/2", and 1" pieces and just stacked them up to get my legs perfectly level. Once I used the shims, leveling the lift was a cinch. (I also got some longer bolts and bolted through the shims to keep everything together.

Thanks. Sounds like bolting down is going to be neccessary
Did you put a car on it prior to having it shimmed? trying to determine if this thing is safe to use. I have a miriad of mods pending that I was waiting to assemble the lift to do

 

[wssix99]

No, I knew my floor was off and planned to shim from the start. Columns of any type are only safe when they are perpendicular to the load. So, putting a car on the lift without plumb columns would definitely not be safe.

There are some folks who use hard rubber mats and other things as shims. You could do something like that as a temporary measure if you want to put steel underneath as a long term solution.

You don't 'need' to bolt the lift. You could weld plates to the bottom of your feet, etc. However, if you are getting everything level and plumb, the lift is going to move slightly on you and will fall off over time. Bolting keeps it from moving.

Since you don't need to bolt, you can also go with large screws or alternate anchors if your concern is removing the lift. Please share your concerns and we can give other ideas.

 

[66Caprice]

If the legs of you're lift are not standing horizontal within a reasonable few degrees of each other, you're legs will want to walk when you run it up and down. Try to get something to help bring the legs close to the same height then level them with one another. I found some hard plastic jackstand pads at Tractor supply when I installed my lift 7 years ago. Something like this. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/buyers-products-rubber-outrigger-pad-18-x-18-x-2-in. There are several companies out there making them. Mine were only half inch thick and only needed 2. No I do not have my lift bolted down.

 

[Viper98912]

Slightly shim the bottom of the plates under the post

 

[Beemer]

In new construction we always use a bed of non-shrink grout under steel leveling plates prior to placing the columns.
Tough now that your columns are in place though.

 

[kbuhagiar]

In new construction we always use a bed of non-shrink grout under steel leveling plates prior to placing the columns.
Tough now that your columns are in place though.

OPs lift appears to have the provisions for optional casters, in which case he could lift the columns and move the lift to allow for the grout, no?

OP - Did the lift come with casters?

 

[PM-Performance]

No, I knew my floor was off and planned to shim from the start. Columns of any type are only safe when they are perpendicular to the load. So, putting a car on the lift without plumb columns would definitely not be safe.

There are some folks who use hard rubber mats and other things as shims. You could do something like that as a temporary measure if you want to put steel underneath as a long term solution.

You don't 'need' to bolt the lift. You could weld plates to the bottom of your feet, etc. However, if you are getting everything level and plumb, the lift is going to move slightly on you and will fall off over time. Bolting keeps it from moving.

Since you don't need to bolt, you can also go with large screws or alternate anchors if your concern is removing the lift. Please share your concerns and we can give other ideas.

So i just measured with a magnetic level I have that I used for pinion angle adjustments. If its correct, in reality its only a 2-3* difference on those columns. Still as much a worry?
My issue right now is I am already over $3k in, and have another $3k in mods sitting to get done, plus another $2k planned in getting the garage door situated to now be in fear I can't even use this thing.

If the legs of you're lift are not standing horizontal within a reasonable few degrees of each other, you're legs will want to walk when you run it up and down. Try to get something to help bring the legs close to the same height then level them with one another. I found some hard plastic jackstand pads at Tractor supply when I installed my lift 7 years ago. Something like this. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/buyers-products-rubber-outrigger-pad-18-x-18-x-2-in. There are several companies out there making them. Mine were only half inch thick and only needed 2. No I do not have my lift bolted down.

Thanks, i will look into this. So the other concern is bringing the front up more, what affect that will have on getting an already problematic car on the lift.
See above on my comments about my magnetic level telling me I am 2-3* out, so curious if this is as much of a concern as the bubble level showed.

OPs lift appears to have the provisions for optional casters, in which case he could lift the columns and move the lift to allow for the grout, no?

OP - Did the lift come with casters?

Yes it came with casters, so any shimming or leveling can technically be a smidge easier since I can lift them. It does want to walk on me a little on the casters, but not sure how round the caster wheels are either.

 

[finn]

In new construction we always use a bed of non-shrink grout under steel leveling plates prior to placing the columns.
Tough now that your columns are in place though.

Should be able to lift the columns if he has the caster kit many four post lifts are shipped with.

Personally, I would shim the posts with plywood (which I used since my floor was level except by the floor drain, or cut some thick steel plates. Once the steel plates are fit under the lift post base plates, drill holes through the base and into the steel shim plates. Tap the shim plates and use a short bolt to act as a locator for the shim.

My plywood shim doesn’t move, nor do my posts skate, so I doubt if there’s an issue. I fairness, I don’t cycle my lift very often, though.

 

[Daedalus]

See above on my comments about my magnetic level telling me I am 2-3* out, so curious if this is as much of a concern as the bubble level showed.

The problem I see is the distances between the posts at the bottom will be shorter than the distances between the posts at the top. So when you raise the lift the moving parts could pull the posts inward toward each other. Not saying it will fail, but it might bend the baseplate relative to the post, or at the very least the load will not be evenly distributed across the entirety of each baseplate area, and will be concentrated along their inner edges (i.e., the posts will tip toward each other). Might scar up the floor some, and seems to me the lift would be more prone to walking with repeated lifts.

 

[Beemer]

OPs lift appears to have the provisions for optional casters, in which case he could lift the columns and move the lift to allow for the grout, no?

Should be able to lift the columns if he has the caster kit many four post lifts are shipped with.

Personally, I would shim the posts with plywood (which I used since my floor was level except by the floor drain, or cut some thick steel plates. Once the steel plates are fit under the lift post base plates, drill holes through the base and into the steel shim plates. Tap the shim plates and use a short bolt to act as a locator for the shim.

My plywood shim doesn’t move, nor do my posts skate, so I doubt if there’s an issue. I fairness, I don’t cycle my lift very often, though.

OP - Did the lift come with casters

Plywood rots easily, no? Concrete is great at transmitting moisture and dampness so I'd be wary of that as a long term solution.

As for steel shims, wouldn't that create less than full bearing on the column bases with voids aside the shim edges?

There are flowable grouts that might be worth researching to see if they might be appropriate for whatever spaces might be beneath the columns after he plumbed up the posts. There is probably a minimum thickness though.

 

[Glemon]

I don't know about the level issue, but what exactly are you doing to raise the garage door and rails? I raised mine about 18" and all I did was cut and rerun the rails with a cut in the middle of the curve and an extension put in, a sidewinder GDO and a little more tension in the springs.

If you are going with a lot greater lift maybe you need to re-engineer things, but it looks like a single garage door, so probably not that much weight involved. Anyway, if you do it yourself should be mostly just the cost of the Jackshaft opener, about $500

 

[finn]

Plywood rots easily, no? Concrete is great at transmitting moisture and dampness so I'd be wary of that as a long term solution.

As for steel shims, wouldn't that create less than full bearing on the column bases with voids aside the shim edges?

There are flowable grouts that might be worth researching to see if they might be appropriate for whatever spaces might be beneath the columns after he plumbed up the posts. There is probably a minimum thickness though.

PT plywood probably rots….in 75 years or so.

The only issue I have with flowable grout is that eliminates portability, which is one of the desirable features of a four post lift. I have two four posters, and, although I don’t move them frequently, I do move them, depending on what I am working on. I would opt for a steel plate over grout if I was the least afraid of plywood rotting in the distant future. My floors are pretty dry, since the building has radiant floor heat, so rotting is unlikely. The sill plates rest on the concrete slab, and they haven’t rotted. The building is maybe twenty years old. My boyhood home garage was built in the late fifties with non treated sill plates and is still fine, as best I can tell.

 

[PM-Performance]

I don't know about the level issue, but what exactly are you doing to raise the garage door and rails? I raised mine about 18" and all I did was cut and rerun the rails with a cut in the middle of the curve and an extension put in, a sidewinder GDO and a little more tension in the springs.

If you are going with a lot greater lift maybe you need to re-engineer things, but it looks like a single garage door, so probably not that much weight involved. Anyway, if you do it yourself should be mostly just the cost of the Jackshaft opener, about $500

I was paying someone to do it all as I have no experience in this arena. I would have thought just raising the rails 18" ish was adeuate, but they want to replace the rails completely.
I can provide my own opener, which I have found in the $400-500 range vs their $1200 for the same opener, but they want $200-300 labor to install the opener, plus almost $1k for the parts and labor on the rails.

 

[AffableCurmudgeon]

I was paying someone to do it all as I have no experience in this arena. I would have thought just raising the rails 18" ish was adeuate, but they want to replace the rails completely.
I can provide my own opener, which I have found in the $400-500 range vs their $1200 for the same opener, but they want $200-300 labor to install the opener, plus almost $1k for the parts and labor on the rails.

If you don't have experience with garage door springs, you are doing the right thing by hiring someone to do it for you. Those things are dangerous. I also opted for a professional to raise my door.

Not sure where you are but here, I paid about $1800 a few months ago for the Lift Master jackshaft opener, tracks, springs and labor.

Nice lift BTW. I have the same one. You will enjoy it.

 

[Glemon]

Yeah, I forgot to mention I have newer springs with a tensioner you just put a power drill to it to change the tension through a work gear drive mechanism. If you don't have that your comfort level with DIY spring work may be understandably lower (but it still can be done with some ingenuity and common sense)

s far as running the rails, that part is pretty simple, you can see how it is done by looking at the rails (is that the right word?) There is a plate and low profile bolts to join the parts together and I hang from 90 degree perforated steel pieces like this https://www.acehardware.com/departments/hardware/angles-braces-and-brackets/metal-angles/5622451

 

[Beemer]

PT plywood probably rots….in 75 years or so.

I used to think that until a plywood supplier clued me in.
The PT treatment only goes into the first lamination due to the glue so he advised that there was no reason to use it.

Regarding sill plates, they should always be PT for moisture protection. Our code requires it.

 

[Mikes61]

I was paying someone to do it all as I have no experience in this arena. I would have thought just raising the rails 18" ish was adeuate, but they want to replace the rails completely.
I can provide my own opener, which I have found in the $400-500 range vs their $1200 for the same opener, but they want $200-300 labor to install the opener, plus almost $1k for the parts and labor on the rails.

Look on EBay for a Genie side mount opener. There was a guy selling them for $325 plus $50ish in shipping charges. They don’t have a battery backup but who cares? I bought 3 of them and installed them myself after watching a couple hours of videos on YouTube. It was very easy.

 

[Mikes61]

My buddy and I put together and installed my lift. The first couple times raising it I only went up a couple feet high, then got increasingly higher. I did the same when I put a car on it for the first time. I keep the top car as low as possible.

 

[finn]

I used to think that until a plywood supplier clued me in.
The PT treatment only goes into the first lamination due to the glue so he advised that there was no reason to use it.

Regarding sill plates, they should always be PT for moisture protection. Our code requires it.

Code requires it now, but didn’t in the past, so there are millions of buildings out there with white wood sills.

The 3/4” pt plywood floor in my shed shows no sign of rot, and it’s getting towards thirty years old, and maybe three inches above dirt (no gravel). I wouldn’t lose sleep over a plywood shim, even untreated (actually, I don’t lose sleep over it).

 

[PM-Performance]

Look on EBay for a Genie side mount opener. There was a guy selling them for $325 plus $50ish in shipping charges. They don’t have a battery backup but who cares? I bought 3 of them and installed them myself after watching a couple hours of videos on YouTube. It was very easy.

I am looking on ebay. Cheapest model with WIFI happens to be with backup and was $429.

Yeah, I forgot to mention I have newer springs with a tensioner you just put a power drill to it to change the tension through a work gear drive mechanism. If you don't have that your comfort level with DIY spring work may be understandably lower (but it still can be done with some ingenuity and common sense)

s far as running the rails, that part is pretty simple, you can see how it is done by looking at the rails (is that the right word?) There is a plate and low profile bolts to join the parts together and I hang from 90 degree perforated steel pieces like this https://www.acehardware.com/departments/hardware/angles-braces-and-brackets/metal-angles/5622451

This link does not go anywhere. I could probably screw around with it and figure it out to do myself, but I am probably 6 projects deep and some things i rather just pay someone so I can get to the ones I know how to do.



Further update about my initial problem:

I called Atlas today and advised I am 2 to maybe 3* out, and their response was this is not an issue. They stated this is common with the "portable" style lifts and once you get the weight of a car on them, the posts tend to self level themselves out. They just advised to make sure the runways are level and on the locks properly along with the cables and the rest will work itself out in the wash.

 

[Mikes61]

I am looking on ebay. Cheapest model with WIFI happens to be with backup and was $429.

This link does not go anywhere. I could probably screw around with it and figure it out to do myself, but I am probably 6 projects deep and some things i rather just pay someone so I can get to the ones I know how to do.



Further update about my initial problem:

I called Atlas today and advised I am 2 to maybe 3* out, and their response was this is not an issue. They stated this is common with the "portable" style lifts and once you get the weight of a car on them, the posts tend to self level themselves out. They just advised to make sure the runways are level and on the locks properly along with the cables and the rest will work itself out in the wash.

I don’t do the WiFi ones, my WiFi won’t reach my garage.

 

[PM-Performance]

I don’t do the WiFi ones, my WiFi won’t reach my garage.

My logic is if I am going to have to spend the money, get wifi now.
I have on more than one occasion left my garage doors open over night. Figured that is an easy failsafe.

 

[Stick-man]

Just use metal shim and anchor them to the concrete. You need to check level after you tighten the anchor bolts, so they are perfectly level when it is operation.

 

[rsanter]

Personally I see three ways to handle this.

Bolt it to the floor and level it.

Grind the floor flat/level in the area where the posts sit.

Or I would shim the posts with washers or blocks till I was happy with the results.
Once happy I would so some measuring and then I would get some steel or aluminum plate and have them milled to a wedge.
Use the factory bolt holes to bolt the wedge to the bottom of the post.
I would also get some high durometer rubber and glue them to the bottom of the plate to accommodate any unevenness in the floor.
If you plan to use wheels to move this lift outside some times then you could remove the shims when takes outside

 

[Byrdnyrd]

PM,
I had a similar situation when I installed my lift. My solution was thick rubber pads under 2 of the posts.

buy a Horse Stall Mat At Tractor supply or your local ( you dont have your location in your signature) farm supply store. Cut a couple squares about 1” larger than your post bases and “Bobs your Uncle” get the posts close to PLUMB ( not level) as reasonable using the pads. Use your wheels to raise the legs and place the pads.

I did not bolt my lift down, I like having the ability to move the lift on the wheels. I have had an F350 Super Duty on my lift many times with any issue.

If you do the calculations you’ll be surprised how little force is on those legs. That Corvette prolly weighs less than 4000 lbs. My 9000lb Bendpak at maximum load equates to less than 20PSI.

mi dos centavos

cheers,
BN

PS A Man with Corvette should own a decent Level!!

 

[Stick-man]

I just finished my install. My shop floor was out of level.
Front drivers was my high spot so no shim
Front pass needed 1 5/8"
Rear driver needed 9/16"
Rear pass needed 1 1/4

I used a combination of steel plates I had laying around. I used 1", 1/2", 1/4", ect. Now I will plumb the posts with them tight and do my final level on the cables and then safety ladders.