Not your average which toolbox thread.

[Adam.C]

This may help, but only slightly.

The problem is that when you roll over uneven surfaces, its very likely the box will be supported by only 2 diagonal wheels. Boxes like Snap Ons have suspensions- springs on the casters compress to allow the opposite wheels take some load. But no matter what you do, your box is twisting. Over time, that can fatigue or permanently (plastically) yield your box. Pneumatic tires help a small amount.

A sheet of plywood or a 1/2" steel plate, while both a step in the right direction, won't stop the twisting. Angle iron as pictured above is better. But while angle iron is stiff in bending, the twisting I'm talking about is torsion (axial twisting) of the angle iron. And angle iron isn't good for twisting. An X frame instead of the rectangular picture frame would be better. As would thicker weaker material. For example- doug fir 4x4s might be just as stiff as 1-1/2 angle iron. (dunno, have to do the math).

A well made box is the best solution. Thickness of steel helps, but good welds, either lots of spot welds or continuous welds, really makes a big difference. And this is one of the things guys like about the truck boxes or Lista boxes.

My thinking is, the HF boxes are perfect for home shop guys who move their boxes infrequently. They offer plenty of storage and as ing as you can live with the drawer weight limits, you are good. But for pros on the move, they need a box designed to be rolled around. Where I work, they use Lista or SO KRL for this.

Another alternative is to use a roll cart, which many pro techs use. Their primary boxes are so big, they are just too heavy to move or there is no place else for them to be, so tools are transferred to roll carts and transported to the job. I think shade tree guys would benefit from this as well. Why not build your box into your work bench, or leave it on the back wall of the garage? Even if you only move your tool cart 10 feet, I think it's worth it.

 

[Bigplum]

I think its two problems , the twisting and the shock loading when being moved , every hard jolt is a hammer blow to the welds and rails when the box is fully loaded.

must be common enough problem though, the solution is the Pit Box or something similar

 

[Adam.C]

I think its two problems , the twisting and the shock loading when being moved , every hard jolt is a hammer blow to the welds and rails when the box is fully loaded.

Yes. You are 100% correct. Shock/impulse loading will really hurt these boxes.

I think sometimes there are adherents to box brands without a fuller understanding of why one box is actually better or how they differ. Quality of drawer runners, drawer load ratings, casters and gage thickness of the steel are all good indicators of suitability. But the stiffness of a box, I've never seen mentioned here, is very important for people looking to move boxes around like plant maintenance folks or the OP.

That will be governed by the bend radii, quality and number of welds and basic design.

May be if Linda from Lista is still around, she can provide some details on the torsional rigidity of her company's boxes. I suspect the OP woudl be happy with a Lista box. My belief is that they are quite heavy duty.

 

[Kracin]

This may help, but only slightly.

The problem is that when you roll over uneven surfaces, its very likely the box will be supported by only 2 diagonal wheels. Boxes like Snap Ons have suspensions- springs on the casters compress to allow the opposite wheels take some load. But no matter what you do, your box is twisting. Over time, that can fatigue or permanently (plastically) yield your box. Pneumatic tires help a small amount.

A sheet of plywood or a 1/2" steel plate, while both a step in the right direction, won't stop the twisting. Angle iron as pictured above is better. But while angle iron is stiff in bending, the twisting I'm talking about is torsion (axial twisting) of the angle iron. And angle iron isn't good for twisting. An X frame instead of the rectangular picture frame would be better. As would thicker weaker material. For example- doug fir 4x4s might be just as stiff as 1-1/2 angle iron. (dunno, have to do the math).

A well made box is the best solution. Thickness of steel helps, but good welds, either lots of spot welds or continuous welds, really makes a big difference. And this is one of the things guys like about the truck boxes or Lista boxes.

My thinking is, the HF boxes are perfect for home shop guys who move their boxes infrequently. They offer plenty of storage and as ing as you can live with the drawer weight limits, you are good. But for pros on the move, they need a box designed to be rolled around. Where I work, they use Lista or SO KRL for this.

Another alternative is to use a roll cart, which many pro techs use. Their primary boxes are so big, they are just too heavy to move or there is no place else for them to be, so tools are transferred to roll carts and transported to the job. I think shade tree guys would benefit from this as well. Why not build your box into your work bench, or leave it on the back wall of the garage? Even if you only move your tool cart 10 feet, I think it's worth it.

Theres 1/2x4 steel flatbar underneath to prevent twisting......

 

[sac02]

A lot of people are suggesting building a frame for the box (which still isn't a bad idea), but the frame will really only take the force off of the attachment points for the casters. If you look at the picture he attached, that's not actually where the box is failing initially. It's failing at the upper part of the box as the force is transferred through the wheels, to the box, to the drawers and tools, which are putting more force into the box when they bounce. Building a frame (while still a good idea to reinforce the bottom of the box) would not solve that particular issue, as a solid frame will still transfer the same load directly into the box.

In fact, depending on how the box is constructed, the frame MAY direct MORE load into the box, if the current caster/box bottom design is absorbing some impact force by flexing slightly - stiffening it COULD potentially be counter-productive.

What you really need is suspension of some sort. Pneumatic casters, suspended casters, frame with box mounted on elastomers, whatever. But some kind of suspension to dampen the impacts is the key.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Alright lets try this again. I'm going to buy a box and want to know whether or not you would go with (A)Snap-On or (B) Lista.

What are the other guys in your shop using?

I would think Snap On would get my vote in this case because of warranty support. I don't know that Snap On boxes are any better than Lista, but it's much easier to have a guy drive up to your door to warranty a box than to do it over the phone or via mail.

Like others have said, you need some type of suspension or give in your wheels on rough surfaces or all of the shock is transferred to the box.

 

[PugetDude]

The problem isn't the quality of the box, per se. It's metal fatigue caused by repetitive shock loading when the loaded box bounces over railroad tracks. It's tearing where the point loads are highest.

A HF box on a good solid welded steel rigid sub-base with a layer of shock absorbing material in between (plywood or high-durometer rubber) will outlast a tool truck box with standard casters in this situation. It's not the box that's the issue, it's the suspension underneath. Buy any box you want, then take the steps you need to adapt it for use in your unique work environment. Don't expect a box designed to roll infrequently on a smooth dealership floor to magically adapt to your requirements just because it's expensive.

Snap On, Lista,... doesn't matter- The presidential limo wasn't designed for the Baja 500...

 

[TonyCH]

What about 6 or 8 casters instead of 4? Ie. more support and less flex to the box structure.

 

[Kracin]

This may help, but only slightly.

The problem is that when you roll over uneven surfaces, its very likely the box will be supported by only 2 diagonal wheels. Boxes like Snap Ons have suspensions- springs on the casters compress to allow the opposite wheels take some load. But no matter what you do, your box is twisting. Over time, that can fatigue or permanently (plastically) yield your box. Pneumatic tires help a small amount.

A sheet of plywood or a 1/2" steel plate, while both a step in the right direction, won't stop the twisting. Angle iron as pictured above is better. But while angle iron is stiff in bending, the twisting I'm talking about is torsion (axial twisting) of the angle iron. And angle iron isn't good for twisting. An X frame instead of the rectangular picture frame would be better. As would thicker weaker material. For example- doug fir 4x4s might be just as stiff as 1-1/2 angle iron. (dunno, have to do the math).

A well made box is the best solution. Thickness of steel helps, but good welds, either lots of spot welds or continuous welds, really makes a big difference. And this is one of the things guys like about the truck boxes or Lista boxes.

My thinking is, the HF boxes are perfect for home shop guys who move their boxes infrequently. They offer plenty of storage and as ing as you can live with the drawer weight limits, you are good. But for pros on the move, they need a box designed to be rolled around. Where I work, they use Lista or SO KRL for this.

Another alternative is to use a roll cart, which many pro techs use. Their primary boxes are so big, they are just too heavy to move or there is no place else for them to be, so tools are transferred to roll carts and transported to the job. I think shade tree guys would benefit from this as well. Why not build your box into your work bench, or leave it on the back wall of the garage? Even if you only move your tool cart 10 feet, I think it's worth it.

I feel I should also add that the guys who are real serious will just cagebtheir box in 1 or 2x1/4 angle iron with a steel plate on top and bottom and x in back. The box takes little to no stress at any time and allows you to use whatever box you want without paying excessive prices for overbuilt boxes

 

[Jere]

My advice is simaliar, keep the box you have, make an angle iron dolly, and frame that encloses the whole box. Make a cross brace across the areas that have no drawers, triangulate the frame as much as possible. Use self tapping screws or tack welds to connect the frame to the box throughout, especially vertical corners.

If you need to straighten the corners on the box you have a auto body heel dolly with whatever hammer you have around should do the trick.

 

[Richard Cranium]

I own both equipto boxes and snap-on boxes. I don't drink the Kool-Aid. I would pick the Lista box in a heart beat. I also agree that it is not the box it is the suspension. Just my two cents worth. Rich

 

[demographic]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned making a frame for the box yet, maybe even with large diameter castors

 

[PugetDude]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned making a frame for the box yet, maybe even with large diameter castors

Now, that's a splendid idea, mate.....

 

[zkling]

If I could buy any box new, price not a factor, I'd go Lista hands down. With that said, a set of heavy sprung casters is going to really help.

 

[bobcatdan]

Another argument for SO would be the lifetime warranty the box has. I would discuss this with great lengths with a higher up SO rep to make sure there is not a wealse out point for them. Maybe adding ISO ride casters to a krl 722 if you want to keep the foot print smaller.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

My dad spent 37 years as a millwright in a papermill... really only 2 boxes there. Snappy's and Kennedy's. The boxes traveled inside & out, up and down..boxes would wear out like any others, but most if not all had exo-skeletons fabbed up around them.

6" Channel Frame...bolted into stock caster locations, vertical corners, 2" Square tubing..heavy top frame with provisions at corners for rigging, fork pockets welded under for forking em around.

Its a sight to see a KRL1022 Fully Loaded...slung up and Flying overhead on a 150T crane... My dad always had high end boxes, but never polished them. His exo-skeleton was tacked right to the box to keep the box stiffer..I think I'd cry if I had to tack weld onto my 722. His last box had a Kennedy base...Snap-On mid section, Kennedy intermediate on top and a Snappy side cab on one end and a home made locker on the other end to keep the BIG tools.

 

[carcajou]

My dad spent 37 years as a millwright in a papermill... really only 2 boxes there. Snappy's and Kennedy's. The boxes traveled inside & out, up and down..boxes would wear out like any others, but most if not all had exo-skeletons fabbed up around them.

6" Channel Frame...bolted into stock caster locations, vertical corners, 2" Square tubing..heavy top frame with provisions at corners for rigging, fork pockets welded under for forking em around.

Its a sight to see a KRL1022 Fully Loaded...slung up and Flying overhead on a 150T crane... My dad always had high end boxes, but never polished them. His exo-skeleton was tacked right to the box to keep the box stiffer..I think I'd cry if I had to tack weld onto my 722. His last box had a Kennedy base...Snap-On mid section, Kennedy intermediate on top and a Snappy side cab on one end and a home made locker on the other end to keep the BIG tools.

That's all well and fine BUT WE WANT PIC"S!

 

[Adam.C]

Making a base or even an exoskeleton that does not permit twisting isn't easy. Remember, these boxes can be easily over 1000 pounds. In normal operation, we expect that load to be carried over all 4 wheels. But when you are moving it, it is possible for the entire load to be carried by two diagonal wheels, which racks the whole box.

I would not expect toolboxes to fatigue. Fatigue is a very specific structural phenomenon that takes 10s of thousands of cycles at least. A very strong box may deform and flex elastically. A cheaper box made of second rate steel, which I would expect to get from China, would deform plastically (permanently). Repeated plastic deformations will locally work harden steel and cause cracking. My guess would be we would see this in the corners at the front of the box, tho internal failures in the corners would also be possible. If you are buying a box second hand, it might be worth inspecting these areas carefully.

The chief structural problem with all toolboxes is they have open fronts where the drawers are. The structure around the drawers can parallelogram. Angle iron all around the opening may not improve things too much, depending on how the verticals are attached to the horizontal members. Each corner is being spread apart or pushed in.

The answer in my mind is to buy a good quality box. I have a kennedy roll cab. Interestingly, it has no reinforcement for the casters. They simply bolt to a thin sheet metal floor. One of the first things I did was to float in some aluminum angles front to back, internally, to pick up the caster bolts. There was enough room under the bottom drawer for 2" angle.

 

[Kracin]

adam. you seem stuck on thinking that all the people that build frames around their boxes and use them for 10-20 years or more while constantly moving them around, just haven't done that or something...

people build frames around boxes that get moved a lot, and that solves mostly all issues with boxes wearing out from moving constantly (a lot of the guys will weld the frame to the box as well).

last guy who came and left where i work, was a pipefitter for 30 years, came to work where i work only because he was bored in between jobs. the box he has was the same box, but much older that we all run (the craftsman). except his was in a full exoskeleton with about twice "full load" weight of the box advertisement, due to there being a large wrench rack welded to the back of it, half inch plate on top. and 1/4 angle at every corner. along with home made heavy side boxes on both sides, all drawers completely loaded up. this thing was a damn beast, and everything worked perfectly, no sticky drawers, nothin. rolled everywhere in the plant fine, didn't have any part of the box itself falling apart. pretty amazing to say the least.

 

[wild cowboy]

this one weighs 811 lbs - strong enough for ya?

www.strong-hold.com/Products/1054/12-Drawer_Mobile_Mechanics_Cart

 

[crewchief888]

Alright lets try this again. I'm going to buy a box and want to know whether or not you would go with (A)Snap-On or (B) Lista.

take your pick, it's your money, but i'd guess ANY box will eventually do the same thing.

i've damaged/destroyed every box i've bad in a service truck in the past 30 years.
kennedy, matco, mac, SO, & CM.

rolling over RR tracks, you need a sturdy bottom frame, and either suspension casters, or air filled tires.

i understand the reluctance of having air filled tires, a commercial tire place could foam fill them for you for a few $$ each.
no flats, and with a bit of cushion.

 

[scarney1988]

May I ask the OP a question?

If so, what do your co-workers use? Maybe emulate what is already a known solution in your work environment (assuming there are others who move their boxes).

Is a stationary box with a tool cart a possibility??

Given the choice between snap on and lista I would go with what ever offers the drawer configuration and load capacity you need. In the end, I would not spend big money on a box if I wasn't sure would be destroyed in short order.

Maybe some sort of "movable bridge" can be made to accommodate a traditional box???

 

[AlexNGreen]

May I ask the OP a question?

If so, what do your co-workers use? Maybe emulate what is already a known solution in your work environment (assuming there are others who move their boxes).

Is a stationary box with a tool cart a possibility??

Given the choice between snap on and lista I would go with what ever offers the drawer configuration and load capacity you need. In the end, I would not spend big money on a box if I wasn't sure would be destroyed in short order.

Maybe some sort of "movable bridge" can be made to accommodate a traditional box???

My coworkers use a combination of stuff. Everything from harbor freight to snap on is used. Some put pneumatic tires on some don't. I don't think it's the suspension the box needs but the quality of the box as my current box tore at an obvious weak spot. I'm leaning towards Snap-On with sprung wheels but I still need to call a Lista distributor and get a price.

 

[scarney1988]

Sounds like you have an idea of what you want.

Good luck.

Take some pictures of what you end up going with.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

This is the time of the year that all the racing equipment auctions take place. Hundreds of racers bring their stuff (probably including pit boxes) and auction it off. Find one in your area and take it in.

 

[nationalminer84]

I work in an industrial environment where the company still provides all the tools so we have no choice. Most of the old boxes are protos or Williams with the skeletons made for them. The company has started buying strong hold though and I am impressed. Very HD no frills but so nice.


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