Nothings tough enough...

[TNToy]

I'd love to do racedeck or one of the tougher two-part epoxies in the two-car with attached house I just moved into.

Problem is... fairly heavy fabrication will be ocurring in here. Sliding 21' sticks of 'cage tubing over to the bender, dropping wrenches, excessive grinding/welding/plasma cutter burns... they'll all ruin even an industrial epoxy floor in short order.

So that means something everyone mentions ocasionally on here. Something like this whenever someone mentions welding: "I'd polish and seal the floor if I we're you". Here's the problem: I've read the top 12 pages of posts in the Floor forum, and they stop there. No more details or elaboration. Just "polish the floor" I know what I need now, thanks very much. A polished floor like a Lowes/H.D. store has, with some sort of sealer on it to prevent fluids from soaking in.

And not the kind of sealer that sits on top & looks like **** when it de-laminates in 3 months of heavy use. I need something that penetrates down into the floor instead of sitting on top of it, so I can't drag a 4 ft. tall 50-pound jackstand across it and scrape it off the cement.

Please, a little help over here? If anyone has done something similar, or even knows what to recommend as far as the polishing process or what sealers might be appropraite for my use... throw a drowning man a rope over here.

 

[PAToyota]

What? You want us to give away all the secrets?

Polish typically means something like this: yesitsconcrete.com

For sealer, you want a penetrating sealer: http://www.concretesealants.com/Poly_Top_Seal_CS-20.htm

Although, usually with polishing no sealer is used.

 

[TNToy]

Thanks. Appreciate it.

No sealer, eh? The only thing I want to accomplish with the sealer is to have a floor where 10W-30 / ATF / Coolant can be left sitting overnight and simply mopped up. I suppose if the polishing process closes all the pores in the concrete it could accomplish that, but I'd still be nervous about being able to leave oil sitting for 48 hours before I noticed it and cleaned it up.

Has anyone on the forum polished their floor? Almost everyone on G.J. seems to do an epoxy floor... I know pretty much nothing about the process involved in polishing concrete. Any actual experiences would be appreciated greatly.

Time to go check out the links you provided, PAT.

 

[vinculum]

I'm kinda in the same boat - looking for the same product.
The epoxies look nice when new, but to spend that much time and
money and hope it holds up in 5 years is too much of a gamble.
I'd rather use a penetrating sealer that will block the absorbtion of
oils & liquids and not cost a furtune (I have 2400 sq ft). I've been
looking into vseal.com's industra 117 & ashfordformula.com, but I just don't have a fuzzy feeling about anything yet. I think that will hold me out until a better solution comes along. I also consider doing part of my floor in a VCT tile or racedeck where I park my prostreet car, and keep the real "work" area is sealer.. we'll see... hopefully we'll see more thoughts posted in this thread!

ScoTT

 

[TNToy]

We'll see... hopefully we'll see more thoughts posted in this thread!

ScoTT

Honestly, I've kinda given up on that. The problem with getting this kind of information on this board is simply that no one's apparently done it.

I've seen over a dozen posts similar to this one, and each one of them has a recommendation to polish the floor from the other memebers... but that's it. You'll find dozens of "this is my epoxy floor install" threads loaded down with pictures, but I've done a lot of searching, and I think I can confidently say that there isn't a single one on polishing - unless it's prep work for an epoxy install.

 

[vinculum]

Yeah i know its frustrating at times.

Vseal's website seys their product, Industra 117, will develop a shine over time with use. I would assume you can accelerate this with some mechanical scrubbing. Also its hard to find a solution that you dont have to use an acid wash to apply. Industra 117 is made to use on power trowelled floors, which would save me a ton of time and aggravation.

Regardless, keep us posted on your decision and results. I need to get something together in short order, as cold weather is appoaching!

 

[vinculum]

Wow, those are beautiful looking floors for just being polished. Too bad its soooo expensive. Maybe I can put sandpaper on my tires and do the same thing.. hehehe...

 

[PAToyota]

We are finding that the prices are coming down. Polishing has been used in the commercial arena and fetches the high prices, but some are starting to do it on a smaller scale. I haven't really looked into whether it is something you could possibly do yourself with a rental sander/polisher setup.

I went the epoxy route years ago when I poured my slab, but wish that I hadn't. Now that it is done, it is too much trouble to tear up even though it really looks like ****. It has yellowed, there are burn marks from welding even though I use welding blankets, there are chips out of it from various abuse, etc. At some point I'll likely remove it and polish things.

 

[Winmon]

With an 8-12 step process, heavy duty polishing machines equipped with progressively finer grits of diamond-impregnated disks are used to grind down surfaces to the desired degree of shine and smoothness

And I thought there was a lot of work to do an epoxy floor!
I can see why polishing can cost $5/sq ft. Those floors do look nice....

You should give a call to a big fab shop (like Foose, [email protected] or Troy Trepanier, Rad Rides by Troy/ 815.468.2590 / [email protected] ) and see what they do with their shop floors.

 

[Kingham]

The only real solution to an Epoxy floor when doing heavy manufacturing is to use a Quartz aggregate broadcast into an 100% epoxy product.

It is fairly expensive running $4/sq for product only.. but the stuff is very durable.

I would do multiple coats/layers of the broadcast and build it up so it will take the abuse.

 

[chaingang]

I don't know squat about floors or concrete finishing but couldn't you use some kinda wax or sealer like a comercial cleaner uses when refinshing industrial tile? Not sure what type of tile it is but you find it in hospitals, grocery stores, older schools and offices. We have it at work in the breakroom and front office and they have someone come in every so often to strip it down then re-wax it. I think it is called burnishing. Come to think of it when I was a kid they used to strip the school floors and gymnasium wood floor and re-coat it every so often. I remember we had to stay off the gym floor for a day when they did it. I thought it was a wax product. I will have to call our cleaning service company and see if I can get an answer.
I don't want to put epoxy down if it won't hold up to heavy fabrication work.

 

[TNToy]

The only real solution to an Epoxy floor when doing heavy manufacturing is to use a Quartz aggregate broadcast into an 100% epoxy product. It is fairly expensive running $4/sq for product only.. but the stuff is very durable.

Let me clarify:

1) I'm sure I DONT want an epoxy floor. Ever done a floor polished smooth like a Lowes or Sams Club store? That's what I'm pretty sure I'm after....

2) $4/square is way out of my budget. I'm in a 20X25 garage, and there's no way I'm spending $2K on thefloor. I'm going to be hard pressed to justify $1 per square for a floor that we won't live on for more than five years with my wife. If I were building my dream shop like your customers, it'd be different.

Like I said, I don't care if it looks good. I want:

1) Something that's impervious to fluid spills.
2) Something that'll hold up well when a 20-pound steel scrap falls on the floor. If a polished floor alone won't resist fluid spills, then I need to find some sort of sealer that penetrates down into the concrete, rather than clear-coating it...

Whatcha got? There HAS to be some sort of way to rent an industrial abrasive polisher and grind this thing down like a superstore's floor.

 

[PAToyota]

The only real solution to an Epoxy floor when doing heavy manufacturing is to use a Quartz aggregate broadcast into an 100% epoxy product.

Hmm... Never saw the quartz aggregate broadcast into epoxy. I've used it many times broadcast into the top of the concrete before it is trowelled...

 

[Kingham]

Let me clarify:

1) I'm sure I DONT want an epoxy floor. Ever done a floor polished smooth like a Lowes or Sams Club store? That's what I'm pretty sure I'm after....

2) $4/square is way out of my budget. I'm in a 20X25 garage, and there's no way I'm spending $2K on thefloor. I'm going to be hard pressed to justify $1 per square for a floor that we won't live on for more than five years with my wife. If I were building my dream shop like your customers, it'd be different.

Like I said, I don't care if it looks good. I want:

1) Something that's impervious to fluid spills.
2) Something that'll hold up well when a 20-pound steel scrap falls on the floor. If a polished floor alone won't resist fluid spills, then I need to find some sort of sealer that penetrates down into the concrete, rather than clear-coating it...

Whatcha got? There HAS to be some sort of way to rent an industrial abrasive polisher and grind this thing down like a superstore's floor.

Yep... go to a contractor rental store. they have floor grinders and polishers. Run approximately $65 to $120 per day.. you will need to buy the stones that go in them... they have few grit choices.

Problem is with a floor that has not been spec'ed in the plans to having a polished finish it may be too rough to get exactly smooth.. and when you do get is smoothed down after 4 days of polishing..It still will soak up oil etc.

there are quite a few concrete sealer on the market that you can choose from that will seal the floor. I like the products called Sonneborne #25. if you cant find that you local big box or paint store will have something that will work.

 

[TNToy]

Thanks for the help. Gotta go give this slab a good, hard look and see how smooth it really is. If it's got much of anything in the way of irregularities, you're probably right about it being a bit too much work to polish.

I'm glad to hear that there are alternatives to a clear-coat as far as sealing the concrete. At least, that there's something out there tougher than Thompsons water-seal.

Would you recommend doing a muratic acid etching on a floor that's going to be polished? If it'll make the degreasing process easier, I might go through with it since I've already got the acid. If you have to thoroughly degrease the floor BEFORE you etch it, I suppose there's really not much point then, is there?

 

[toms73novass]

The only real solution to an Epoxy floor when doing heavy manufacturing is to use a Quartz aggregate broadcast into an 100% epoxy product.

It is fairly expensive running $4/sq for product only.. but the stuff is very durable.

I would do multiple coats/layers of the broadcast and build it up so it will take the abuse.

Ken,
How long have you been using the quartz system? Have you seen one of these floors say after 5 years in a garage that fab is done?

What is the final top coat in this system and does it get damaged, stopping at the quartz layer.

Lastly is the durapoxy trowled on, then quartz broadcasted, then more durapoxy and more quartz, then topcoat?

Thanks
Tom

 

[Kingham]

Ken,
How long have you been using the quartz system? Have you seen one of these floors say after 5 years in a garage that fab is done?

What is the final top coat in this system and does it get damaged, stopping at the quartz layer.

Lastly is the durapoxy trowled on, then quartz broadcasted, then more durapoxy and more quartz, then topcoat?

Thanks
Tom

I've been installing the broadcast quartz floors for 3 years now.. so I haven't seen any of mine older than that. My supplier has be in business for over 30 years and have some of these floors in manufacturing plants that are in great shape for the 20 + years in use.

the top coat can be either think or thin depending on personal preference. we use the same durapoxy as a top coat to make it smooth and/or we just topcoat with polyureathane if you like a more sandstone rough finish.

yep you can still damage the top coat.. but a most anything will stop at the quartz except an Ice pick driven by a sledge. anything can be damaged give the right destructive testing...right.

finally.. durapoxy is think so we pour a 6" ribbon across the floor after cutting in and squeege the durapoxy to spead it out and back roll with a 18" 3/8" nap roller to smooth it out. Then broadcast quarts.

Repeat at least once ( we've do 6 coats of quartz before to build it up) to even it out.

and then clear coat to taste one to two coats etc....

These floors are tough and will last longer than any other rolled on epoxy floor system.

of course the trowelled down quartz floors are super tough. but were talking a lot of $ per square and needing a really good applicator by the name of juan or Jose (or john or Joe) so to get an even coat.

 

[toms73novass]

thanks for the explination !!