89MustangGX
Well-known member
Only thing I really noticed on the new SK website is no more Steals & Deals. That auction though -- been a long time since I've been to one, but 20% buyers premium on top of 10% sales tax hurts!
now is your chance for cheap SK tools
- Thread starter laser3kw
- Start date
are you suprised ? the people have spoken and thus a harbor freight was put on every corner
Finance Guy
Well-known member
This has nothing to do with Harbor Freight ... SK and Armstrong did not compete with Harbor Freight. Proto and Williams, with whom they did compete, have not suffered the same fate.
I believe this has far more to do with the changing nature of the industrial tool business, caused primarily by the offshoring of their customers which has resulted in a diminished market. The most effective way to compete now is to: 1) get bigger (consolidate), which provides better access to capital; and 2) develop an overseas footprint ... taken together, both measures would seem to provide better access to large multinational industrial companies.
Thanks for this post. I agree 100%
bsaint
Well-known member
If they are moving to PA then they would def close the plant and auction it all off. Too expensive to re allocate.
neophyte
Well-known member
Harbor Freight used to carry SK a couple decades or so ago from what I recall, but later stopped before the Facom breakup and bankruptcy.
Williams has both a US line and an Import line, and is basically Snap-On’s semi discount “Industrial” line, and discount “Imported” line.
Proto is Stanley’s high end “aerospace” line, judging by how Proto is usually listed in Industrial Supply Catalogs, with Facom tools being sold as Proto, for the higher end, more ergonomic or advanced feature versions.
SK mostly seemed to be a quality industrial tool brand, with nice shiny chrome, and a few advanced designs.
Ideal seems to have a broad distribution network, and Armstrong got killed off, which presumably should have opened up market opportunities for the SK tools.
I sort of wonder if Ideal saw the Stanley purchase of the Craftsman brand, and Stanley mentioning US production of the tools, as a potential market they couldn’t compete in.
neophyte
Well-known member
In PA, residential and commercial property is taxed at the same rate if it is in the same county, with the taxes based on property value.
In Illinois, property tax rates can significantly vary depending on whether the property is classed as commercial or residential.
Greatstar is really "ChinaStar"
I think the whole shebang is part of the "Made in China 2025" initative, buy up whatever is left of American tool manufacturers so they have less to complete with. China loves those suckers that buy at Harbor Freight. Their BFF's.
I think the whole shebang is part of the "Made in China 2025" initative, buy up whatever is left of American tool manufacturers so they have less to complete with. China loves those suckers that buy at Harbor Freight. Their BFF's.
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CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
I was bitter the moment they announced they were packing up. It hurts even more when you realize Illinois has such a rich and powerful history. We, as a state, were somebody once. Now we are fading into the background. I'm not even talking about the body politic here either. The state is just drying up demographically. Sad.
Getting bigger by consolidation means brands get canceled. There isn’t reason to produce 5 brands of sockets if you can sell the same number with 2 brands. SK is popular here but the average tool buying consumer has never heard of them.
bob15
Well-known member
You're kinda off on part of this.
Williams has been owned by Snap On for decades, and in the case of JH Williams, they went bankrupt in 1988. Snap On bought the trademarks, names and assets of JH Williams in 1993; so yes, they did suffer the same fate on SK (just 30-odd years earlier).
Proto has been owned by Stanley for decades. With Proto, they had mother-company Stanley to "fall back on" in hard times. But they, Proto-Stanley, also in turn destroyed the Blackhawk name (which suffered the same fate as JH Williams).
jsackin
Well-known member
Good luck, Can't think of any better home for this stuff!
Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
So I own another orphan brand.
reader2580
Well-known member
You might want to give SK some time before declaring them an orphan brand.
So... you're saying HF killed Williams 30-odd years ago??
Williams/Proto examples are examples of #1 (consolidation) in his post. In the same way, there are a a bunch of US car manufacturers who have failed or been consolidated into bigger brands. It's how a market works.There are lots of reasons why companies fail, and most of them don't have as much to do with the boogey-man as much as companies doing old things when the world required new things, the rise of the DIY-er (which accelerated with YouTube, etc.), a changing market, evolution of customers, and many, many other things.
I think all this hand-wringing of SK is kinda silly at this point. By this time next year we'll have a pretty good idea what the deal is, and I don't get all the forecasting and assumptions.
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Speculation, assumptions, "what if" scenarios regarding the tool industry has been an integral (and fun) part of GJ forums since the beginning of time. If you want hard cold facts then I'd step aside.
bob15
Well-known member
No, I didn't say that. Nor did off-shoring kill JH Williams or Armstrong in the 80's (or even Bonney for that matter).So... you're saying HF killed Williams 30-odd years ago??
vssjim
ALLIANCE MEMBER
They are consolidating at the Shop Vac plant they bought earlier, but what concern is highest to me is the rolls of wire that are used to make things like sockerts. If they are really going to make things here why are they selling steel needed to amke tools when the supply chain is way too tight to give that type of material up.
vssjim
ALLIANCE MEMBER
It is sad as it is another company from Illinois leaving as the companies I have seen gone from once mighty industrial states is long and sad. I am sixty two now and everything has changed from the US as a youth and not for the better.
scooby074
Well-known member
I got a bad feeling looking at this auction that its going to be the end of US manufacture for SK. I hope it isnt, I like what SK I have, but considering their new owner , and the fact they are giving up and selling off a running factory, complete with inventory and materials, I think they are going to be importing their products from China/Taiwan.
You've got a strange definition of fun. All I see here is a bunch of group-self-flagellation.
Because they don't know their going to use that spec of steel, if their not moving thr tooling and are going all new then new designs are completely probably
Look up "Made in China 2025". I think that involves buying up whatever is left of US industry so there is less to complete with.
Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
Old worn out, labour intensive machinery getting sold as scrape. It should have been scraped and replaced long ago. If it had been , we wouldn't be moaning about the loss of another brand. Not all management are smart, their greatest abilities are getting along with the higher ups.
Those "rolls of wire" are called rod.
Those "rolls of wire" are called rod.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
If they didnt take the socket paint, we know they are doomed...
reader2580
Well-known member
The issue many small USA manufacturing companies face is their profit margins are so thin trying to compete with imports that they cannot afford to buy new equipment. If you're selling a fairly low volume the newer equipment is unlikely to save enough to pay for itself. Chinese factories were able to start with all new equipment. I have read posts in the past that a lot of the equipment Snap-On uses is old and Snap-On certainly makes a good profit.
My employer manufactures a non-food product that has to get to consumers within hours of production. It can't be produced overseas, or even in another state to be timely. The industry is declining and sales of the product are expected to cease in 15 to 20 years. The industry is barely profitable these days. Our production equipment is basically at the end of its expected lifespan, but the company doesn't have enough profit to purchase new equipment. The company has invested money to replace some of the controls and motors to extend the life of the equipment, but the purchasing guy is constantly scrounging places like EBay for old PLCs and other parts to keep things running. We have a spare production line if the main line goes down, but the old line has not been upgraded. New equipment would cut production costs, but the new equipment would cost about two year's worth of revenue to buy. That kind of money can't be justified in a dying market.
reader2580
Well-known member
I'm sure some of the stuff cost more to ship than it is worth.
It is very common for chain retail stores to liquidate their inventory instead of moving that inventory to a nearby store that is still open. They must have run the numbers and found that the labor and trucking to move the inventory cost more than just liquidating it. Walmart opened a new store here about a mile from their old store which was closing. They liquidated a lot of the inventory at the old store rather than move it the mile down the street to the new place. Granted, some of what they liquidated was out of season or slow moving, but they liquidated product they still carried in the new store too.
Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
I once asked the maintenance engineer how come Chinese strand was cheaper than ours, we both used Chinese rod? He said their stranders work 3x faster. Our strander was maybe 30 years old and very well kept up.
"Made in China 2025" is about bringing high-tech industry to China. Chinese workers don't want the low wage jobs that come with cranking out wrenches and pliers. They want to produce high-end products with fatter profit margins. Why compete with India when you can become more like South Korea or Japan?
Made in China 2025 - Wikipedia
| Industry sector | Description |
|---|---|
| Information Technology | AI, IoT, smart appliances |
| Robotics | AI, machine learning |
| Green energy and green vehicles | energy efficiency, electric vehicles |
| Aerospace equipment | |
| Ocean engineering and high tech ships | |
| Railway equipment | |
| Power equipment | |
| New materials | |
| Medicine and medical devices | |
| Agriculture machinery |