Not disagreeing, but I'm curious what the reasons are. Why exactly 8" and why not angled head?
NWS or Knipex
- Thread starter tungas123456
- Start date
kctyphoon
Banned
8” gives the best combo of size vs leverage, IMHO, and belive me, ive tried experimenting. Its basically the sweet spot of having handles long enough that will maximize how much your hand will comfortably open and close. If you go bigger, say 10”, youll find you’ll wind up holding the handles in the same spot as an 8” pair. If you go smaller, youll find yourself holding the handles at the very edge, and having to use more strength to cut hard stuff cause you lost some leverage with the shorter handles.
With an angled head, i find 2 issues - depending which way you pick the pliers up, the head will be at different angles. If you hold them one way, the head will angle to the right, flip them over, to the left.. i feel like youre holding your hand/wrist at a very “unnatural” angle to do your work.. i mean, if your job is pulling nail out of wood all day - then the angle would probably help - but straight cutters seem a lot more natural to use. I’m sure not everyone will agree with me, but i bet you the majority do. Straight cutters will always be at the same angle as your wrist or arm, depending which direction you hold them.
To try to make that point a little easier to visualize - just think kitchen knife.. do you have to “think” about how to hold a knife to make a straight cut? No, of course not, cause the blade is straight. It just “makes sense” in your head. You already know how to hold it to keep the blade straight, cause you’ve been doing it every other “straight” item you’ve held. now take the same knife, and bend the blade slightly to the left or right past the handle. Now compensate for that slight angle trying to cut up your steak.. now your thinking about how to do something you never had to think about before - and youll need to spend enough time doing it that it becomes second nature..
With an angled head, i find 2 issues - depending which way you pick the pliers up, the head will be at different angles. If you hold them one way, the head will angle to the right, flip them over, to the left.. i feel like youre holding your hand/wrist at a very “unnatural” angle to do your work.. i mean, if your job is pulling nail out of wood all day - then the angle would probably help - but straight cutters seem a lot more natural to use. I’m sure not everyone will agree with me, but i bet you the majority do. Straight cutters will always be at the same angle as your wrist or arm, depending which direction you hold them.
To try to make that point a little easier to visualize - just think kitchen knife.. do you have to “think” about how to hold a knife to make a straight cut? No, of course not, cause the blade is straight. It just “makes sense” in your head. You already know how to hold it to keep the blade straight, cause you’ve been doing it every other “straight” item you’ve held. now take the same knife, and bend the blade slightly to the left or right past the handle. Now compensate for that slight angle trying to cut up your steak.. now your thinking about how to do something you never had to think about before - and youll need to spend enough time doing it that it becomes second nature..
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plinker
Well-known member
I agree 8" is the best all around for cutters. If you pair them with a set of 4-5" mini cutters, it'll do pretty much everything needed IMO.
kctyphoon
Banned
Here are a couple examples of the poor finish on some of the NWS pliers. The gritty looking stuff is actually a solid part of the surface finish, not grimy buildup or anything like that. You can also see unevenness near the cutting tips on the end cutters.
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Yea to be clear -whats he’s talking about is just the coating on the metal. Not the metal itself. The reason you dont get this on other pliers, is because other pliers dont have a coating like this. Its purely cosmetic. To make them perfect would be like finishing a finish coat. If it keeps them from getting rusty - IMO its absolutely worth it. I love my NWS stuff.
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Of course the problem is, if the coating isn't even, it can cause the pliers not to open and close smoothly, and it doesn't prevent rust in the areas it doesn't cover, and the protrusions in the coating cause it to flake off as it hits or rubs against things, then it's probably not the best rust prevention method for a pair of pliers.
Grip On is another company that comes to mind which gives their pliers an epoxy coating for rust prevention, and they do a much better job in my opinion.
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Morgo
Member
Idk how NWS is, I can tell you I have never met another mechanic who doesn't love knipex. And I think it says a lot that both the MAC and Snap On truck carry knipex instead of just carrying their own pliers. I love my knipex pliers, my cutters are great and anytime I have to grab a plier my knipex water pump pliers are always my go to.
kctyphoon
Banned
Right, but really, what area’s aren’t covered? The working edge of the tools? Consider many other well known pliers employ “use” as rust prevention..
I dont own 50 pliers from NWS, but every one i do have is great quality. The Irwin branded NWS lineman pliers feel like theres a damn ball bearing in the joint. The fact i dont like the bulky grips is just a personal choice.
jimmyin3D
Banned
PB Swiss all day , plus get the Wise Return Handle and Power Handle which is like a breaker bar for hex keys.
Bills Tools
Well-known member
Here are a couple examples of the poor finish on some of the NWS pliers. The gritty looking stuff is actually a solid part of the surface finish, not grimy buildup or anything like that. You can also see unevenness near the cutting tips on the end cutters.
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I don’t think rebranded tools should represent a company as NWS. Only if the NWS branded tools had that finish. It is like comparing TEQ to Gearwrench. TEQ is rebranded Tools for advanced auto. All my knipex and NWS tools withstand whatever beatings they suffer through my work day. I don’t have chrome finishes on them just the black finish.
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Those areas with the rough finish inside the joints have spotty coverage. You can see it a little in the bottom pliers just to the left of the rough finish there's an area that's lighter colored where the coating doesn't complete cover.
I wish my Irwin branded NWS pliers felt like they had ball bearings in the joint. They don't though. They feel more like they have grit in the joint. which is why I've hardly ever used them. I've not yet been able to fix them.
That's an interesting point. I have a bunch of Irwin rebranded NWS and a few Felo rebranded NWS, and none are that impressive. But I also have a couple actual NWS branded pliers which happen to be pretty nice.
On the other hand, I have some Craftsman branded Knipex which are great.
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Bills Tools
Well-known member
I think Irwin should be to blame since they let it slip through quality control. There name is on it not NWS. Knipex cobra’s blemishes would show up easily. So the craftsman version of that tool should be flawless. Minus those blemishes how does the tool itself operate? Knipex makes nice tools also
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Hytekrednek
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2015
- Messages
- 373
Knipex!
Here are a couple examples of the poor finish on some of the NWS pliers. The gritty looking stuff is actually a solid part of the surface finish, not grimy buildup or anything like that. You can also see unevenness near the cutting tips on the end cutters.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using The Garage Journal mobile app
This is "normal" for the Fantastico type pliers as that part is hidden during coating. My chrome plated fantasticos have a similar issue where there's almost no plating there. All my others have excellent uniform plating. This is kind of like a BMW vs Mercedes discussion where one guy says the underside of the hood wasnt clearcoated. I have pliers by both and like both equally. I have a few NWS where the hinge was looser than I like and a Knipex where it was too tight - thats a fine line to balance. My only real Knipex complaint was a pair of bent tip needle nose that was garbage - tip alignment was terrible. NWS really shines here. I dont need any more pliers, but I wish NWS would expand their pliers offering instead of rebranding every tool known to man, and even wiring terminals
For what it's worth, I like my NWS pliers, so I'm not really complaining, but that's not a great analogy. It'd be a good analogy only if the normal mode of operation for a vehicle was to drive around half the time with the hood open. If that were the case, then I think one of the vehicles having a poor finish under the hood would be a valid complaint.
The fact that it's hidden during coating seems like a flimsy excuse. It's an oft exposed part of the pliers during normal operation, and more importantly a part that needs rust protection as much as every other part of the pliers. So if their coating process causes this regularly, I would argue they need a better coating process.
You can argue it's a quality issue that doesn't bother or seem important to you, but I don't think you can argue it isn't a quality issue.
Keep in mind, I'm not there one who originally brought this issue up, and it also doesn't bother me that much. I'm just someone who had couple pairs with this issue readily available to photograph.
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The NWS compound lever pliers are plated or coated when closed- so that area is hidden. Ideally they would plate / coat them open for even coverage. But they don't. They're pliers. The rest of their line doesn't have this issue because they don't have this design. I've had my chrome plated ones for years and they have zero corrosion even on the hidden area with minimal plating- corrosion is not really a valid concern. It's just that they're not cosmetically flawless. But they cut nails great, with little effort, which is my main concern. 8" Fantsticos take less effort than my 10" knipex cutters. And the plating has flaked from the NWS cutting edge. I consider this acceptable but some don't.
Knipex doesnt offer much of their catalog with plating as its as PITA on pliers and not necessary. As said, use keeps them from rusting.
it's like the 50 threads obsessing about paint on the inside of SK sockets here. We occasionally need to remind ourselves that these are tools and not artwork or jewlery. Function should be primary.
Knipex doesnt offer much of their catalog with plating as its as PITA on pliers and not necessary. As said, use keeps them from rusting.
it's like the 50 threads obsessing about paint on the inside of SK sockets here. We occasionally need to remind ourselves that these are tools and not artwork or jewlery. Function should be primary.