Nylog or Not

[NockOn]

Hey guys,

I'm getting ready to install my own heatpump in a week or so. I've been seeing a lot of people using Nylog Blue on the line fittings.

Do I really need to spend $30 on a bottle of the stuff for my one time installation or can I do without? Maybe there's an alternate I could find cheaper, I'm in Nova Scotia.

Thanks

 

[Phuckin' Jim]

I just used ester oil on the flares, and it worked fine.

 

[Jim greengo]

I just used ester oil on the flares, and it worked fine.

I put a little rector seal t plus2 on the nut side of flared fittings to lube them up a little,a little refrig oil should work the same.

 

[justinjoyal]

I like to use nylog on the backside of my flares and on service caps as well.

30$ for a single bottle is crazy though !

 

[Full Throttle]

Leak lock. Never had any luck with nylog

 

[Jackfre]

I go back to my experience as the Rep for Fujitsu in New England. If a piece of equipment was returned as defective and had ANY type of pipe dope or anything else warranty was refused. No discussion.

 

[Jim greengo]

I go back to my experience as the Rep for Fujitsu in New England. If a piece of equipment was returned as defective and had ANY type of pipe dope or anything else warranty was refused. No discussion.

That's why you put a little on back side of flare,it just lubes the flare nut,doesn't affect the system.
They should just make them sweat on fittings instead of flare.

 

[Phuckin' Jim]

I should have mentioned in my post above that I used the oil on the face of the flare as well as the backside and on the threads.
Absolutely NO pipe sealant or teflon tape whatsoever.
Flare fittings can be reliable if done properly.

 

[brewchief]

I go back to my experience as the Rep for Fujitsu in New England. If a piece of equipment was returned as defective and had ANY type of pipe dope or anything else warranty was refused. No discussion.

This what we were told by the Daikin reps during a training class as well.

I use a quality flare tool and a digital torque wrench and don't have any problems. I use a go-no go gauge on every flare to verify its size, sometimes I'll have to redo one but I've yet to have a problem with a proper flare that's been properly torqued.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Git]

I like to use nylog on the backside of my flares and on service caps as well.

30$ for a single bottle is crazy though !

As an amateur, that is what I did when I installed my Mr Slim. I saw some photos where the actual 'flare' of the copper line cracked when it was tightened down due to the rotational force from the nut. Can you not get the $13 bottle from Amazon?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008HOSQQQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[justinjoyal]

Leak lock. Never had any luck with nylog

Leak lock on service caps, maybe...

Never on lineset fittings/flares. That stuff flakes off and gets into the system. Big no-no.

Nylog on the other hand will do no harm.

https://www.refrigtech.com/wp-content/uploads/Product-Data-Sheet-NB.pdf

 

[alexb2000]

Nylog always. As mentioned above it isn't that much on Amazon ($13).

The torque value on the flair fittings isn't that much and you are crushing two copper surfaces together for a mechanical seal. I want to make sure I'm not losing the torque to the threads or to friction on the backside of the flair where the nut is turning.

Cheap insurance that saves a lot of potential hassles IMO.

 

[monkeyspanners]

Back before Nylog existed, a little refrigeration compressor oil did the job. Wouldn't put any oil on the flare face unless you have something compatible, but a little oil or grease on the back of the flare where the nut touches can help stop the pipe twisting.

 

[alexb2000]

Back before Nylog existed, a little refrigeration compressor oil did the job. Wouldn't put any oil on the flare face unless you have something compatible, but a little oil or grease on the back of the flare where the nut touches can help stop the pipe twisting.

Exactly. Nylog is just thickened refrigeration oil, a product I'm sure came from this old practice.

 

[chrispyny]

Re: Nylog or No

Definitely YES. i used it sparingly on the flares when i did both my fuji and pioneer install on the other. I have 5 seasons on the fuji, 4 on the pioneer. No leaks on either. As long as you cut and re-flare the factory flares, use the yellow jacket 410 flare tool, and a touch of nylog blue, you should have NO leaks for a long time.

I just had my boiler replaced in september. The guys doing the work complimented me on my mini split installs and also claimed the practice of using the yellow jacket tool, and a touch of nylog, and you will never have leaks. It’s the practice they follow and almost never perform go backs on installs they’ve done.

Using nylog is the process i leaned here before i did my installs. It is common practice here and elsewhere on the net.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I go back to my experience as the Rep for Fujitsu in New England. If a piece of equipment was returned as defective and had ANY type of pipe dope or anything else warranty was refused. No discussion.

X2. That applies to a LOT of manufacturers. Anyone who can't make a proper flare won't get a better seal from using any liquid fixits anyway.

Tommy

 

[chrispyny]

That’s why i used the yellow jacket flare tool. It makes it elementary and super correct and easy. I understand manufacturers requirements.

Lets be honest, we use nylog blue as an insurance policy. Not as a leak stop. No one wants to deal with leaking refrigerant and poor seals. Nylog just insures there won’t be leaks and aids in torquing the flare nuts down without galling the copper tubing, potentially introducing stress, which leads to cracks. It’s thick, and acts as both a lubricant and a sealer for any super tiny leaks which may be present.

Lastly, good luck to any manufacturer who can prove i used nylog blue on my flares. First, it’s a refrigerant, second it’s clear, third it’s easily cleaned with any mild degreaser, like rubbing alcohol for example. That’s a scare tactic and another potential avenue for manufacturers to void warranty claims.

Denying claims can be legitimate, like for those who have literally ZERO hvac experience, or hvac ‘hacks’ who do what ever they have to when trying to stop a customers leak on the fly or on the cheap. When they attempt to return units or try to claim warranties when they shouldn’t even own a screw driver let alone hvac tooling, i get it. I can imagine the things manufacturers have seen when legitimately denying a claim.
Proving nylog blue was used on a flare fitting let alone blaming the nylog blue as the reason for failure is a far fetch. It HAS its merits. I stand by it.

 

[bzinsky]

When I diy installed 20 lg mini splits...that’s 4 flare connections on each unit. I used nylog on most of them. I flared the lines myself using for sure the correct flare tool. After using nylog and using a good amount of torque (former usaf hydraulics and we torqued everything, i went a little beyond what I thought might be torque spec), about 30 of the 80 connections had extremely small leaks. Those just needed a lot of torque. The nylog seemed to do nothing other than lube up the nut to make it easier to tighten down.

 

[jjrbus]

This what we were told by the Daikin reps during a training class as well.

I use a quality flare tool and a digital torque wrench and don't have any problems. I use a go-no go gauge on every flare to verify its size, sometimes I'll have to redo one but I've yet to have a problem with a proper flare that's been properly torqued.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Oh my! Doing something the way it should be done and then admitting it in public.

When I did my Daikins there was a Daikin University video that showed to use a small amount of Nylog on the rear of the flare, so I did.

 

[Terry D]

I should have mentioned in my post above that I used the oil on the face of the flare as well as the backside and on the threads.
Absolutely NO pipe sealant or teflon tape whatsoever.
Flare fittings can be reliable if done properly.

You should not put anything on the flare nut threads. They do not seal anything. The flare surfaces do the sealing. By lubricating the threads can give you a inaccurate torque reading by tightening to tight and causing a leak.

 

[bonneyman]

X2. That applies to a LOT of manufacturers. Anyone who can't make a proper flare won't get a better seal from using any liquid fixits anyway.

Tommy

Definitely! Flare making is an art and a science. Took me years to get consistent, uniform flares.
For the OP: I bought a bottle of Nylog when it first came out. Never used it. Hell, I still have it.

 

[Phuckin' Jim]

I use the oil as a lubricant rather than a sealant on the threads, but I can appreciate the concerns about over tightening. I generally go to the lower end of the torque range when I use oil on the threads.
Anyone who is concerned about over tightening the fittings should avoid using any oil on the threads.

 

[Jackfre]

That's why you put a little on back side of flare,it just lubes the flare nut,doesn't affect the system.
They should just make them sweat on fittings instead of flare.

Jim, this is okay for the guy who can do it correctly. I had a customer who did a lot of Fujitsu’s and he was driving me crazy complaining of issues with evaporators. He insisted on silver soldering. I had suspicions they were plugging the 1/4” line set. I was begging him to flare, but not only no, hell no. Now, I was only the sales rep, but back in a previous life I was a welder on nukes, power houses, refineries, etc. I have screwed up some of the best equipment, but I did pay attention. Anyway, my customer left and went to Mitsubishi. I regretted the loss of business and seeing him all the time. A yr or so late I was at a trade show and ran into the customer. I asked how he was doing with Mitsubishi? “Great, best move I ever made.” Later I ran into the Mitsubishi rep, whom I knew well. “Hey, how are you doing with Alan.” “He’s driving me crazy. Please, take him back.”
Jim,. There are plenty of DIY’ers here and I am sure you know what you are doing on this, but how about running through the process you use on these line-sets. Public service and all

 

[Jim greengo]

Jim, this is okay for the guy who can do it correctly. I had a customer who did a lot of Fujitsu’s and he was driving me crazy complaining of issues with evaporators. He insisted on silver soldering. I had suspicions they were plugging the 1/4” line set. I was begging him to flare, but not only no, hell no. Now, I was only the sales rep, but back in a previous life I was a welder on nukes, power houses, refineries, etc. I have screwed up some of the best equipment, but I did pay attention. Anyway, my customer left and went to Mitsubishi. I regretted the loss of business and seeing him all the time. A yr or so late I was at a trade show and ran into the customer. I asked how he was doing with Mitsubishi? “Great, best move I ever made.” Later I ran into the Mitsubishi rep, whom I knew well. “Hey, how are you doing with Alan.” “He’s driving me crazy. Please, take him back.”
Jim,. There are plenty of DIY’ers here and I am sure you know what you are doing on this, but how about running through the process you use on these line-sets. Public service and all

I dont do many flares any more,but I have a few differant size flaring tools that chuck.into my cordless when I need them.
As far as soldering linesets I've used stay brite8 for around 30 years now,I've never had a problem plugging lines with it.
Although I usually pull the piston out if I'm soldering liquid line on to a fitting on a coil on a regular forced air system.
I like the staybrite over regular stick solder,its easier on the copper and a few other advantages.
But everybody has their preferred way of doing things.

 

[PWC Repair]

The guys around here commonly use a bit of vacuum pump oil. No goop of any kind.................at least, the ones that know what they're doing.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

They should just make them sweat on fittings instead of flare.

Except that you can't sweat 410a systems like minisplits...

Tommy

 

[Jim greengo]

Except that you can't sweat 410a systems like minisplits...

Tommy

If they put the right fittings on them you could.

 

[PWC Repair]

If they put the right fittings on them you could.

But only if you use the correct solder alloy AND flow low pressure nitrogen the whole time. Otherwise it leaves black soot which flecks off inside the lines and ruins the electronic expansion valves.

 

[Jim greengo]

But only if you use the correct solder alloy AND flow low pressure nitrogen the whole time. Otherwise it leaves black soot which flecks off inside the lines and ruins the electronic expansion valves.

I've never had a problem with stay brite 8 on r22 or 410a systems.
And you dont have to run nitrogen through it while you do it.

 

[justinjoyal]

I've never had a problem with stay brite 8 on r22 or 410a systems.
And you dont have to run nitrogen through it while you do it.

Why not ?

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Deleted

 

[LS6 Tommy]

If they put the right fittings on them you could.

I've never had a problem with stay brite 8 on r22 or 410a systems.
And you dont have to run nitrogen through it while you do it.

Why not ?

They won't. NO manufacturer of minisplits even allows brazed or sweat comnnections.


R22 is an exception for sweating joints. Not using nitrogen is nothing more than an invitaion for lot of contaminants.


Tommy

 

[Bills Tools]

I use vacuum pump oil, never have leaks on flares or hose gaskets. Nylon destroys my hose gaskets. I used it a few years back. Never thought it did anything special. I prefer a thread lock to prevent vibration leaks down the road.


Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Jim greengo]

They won't. NO manufacturer of minisplits even allows brazed or sweat comnnections.


R22 is an exception for sweating joints. Not using nitrogen is nothing more than an invitaion for lot of contaminants.


Tommy

Pressure test with nitrogen after your done with the stay brite,and use your vacuum pump to clear out anything that's in there.
They use flared fittings because they're geared towards home owner installs and people that dont know how to use a torch.

 

[Git]

Pressure test with nitrogen after your done with the stay brite,and use your vacuum pump to clear out anything that's in there.
They use flared fittings because they're geared towards home owner installs and people that dont know how to use a torch.

Top - nitrogen was used to prevent copper oxide from forming inside the line which happens when copper is exposed to oxygen in the air. Bottom is without. The newer refrigerants can act like a solvent and dissolve the copper oxide from the walls and it then gets into the system...

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Pressure test with nitrogen after your done with the stay brite,and use your vacuum pump to clear out anything that's in there.
They use flared fittings because they're geared towards home owner installs and people that dont know how to use a torch.

When any factory training starts allowing staybrite on 410A systems, I'll change my tune. The only people that say it's OK is the people who make it. The equipment manufacturers all say to braze while purging nitrogen.

No disrespect, but I suggest you refresh your memory on what a vacuum pump can and can't do. It can remove moisture vapor, but thats about it. Definitely not solids.

Minisplit manufacturers are not geared towards homeowner installs, a homeowner isn't even legally allowed to work on the refrigerant side of the system.

Tommy

 

[PWC Repair]

The equipment manufacturers all say to braze while purging nitrogen.

No disrespect, but I suggest you refresh your memory on what a vacuum pump can and can't do. It can remove moisture vapor, but thats about it. Definitely not solids.

Minisplit manufacturers are not geared towards homeowner installs, a homeowner isn't even legally allowed to work on the refrigerant side of the system.

Tommy

This is correct for sure! I worked behind the counter for 18 years and spoke directly to multiple factory reps. The reps even had training sessions in our store to MAKE SURE the installers are doing things correctly.
I assure you.....if you ARE NOT purging with nitrogen while brazing in a system with an electronic TXV, you WILL be going back and fixing it. The mechanical TXV's would tolerate the debris floating through where it would find it's way into the filter drier. The ELECTRONIC ones in the mini splits and the 18+ SEER equipment have the tiniest holes that will plug up.

 

[Jim greengo]

Top - nitrogen was used to prevent copper oxide from forming inside the line which happens when copper is exposed to oxygen in the air. Bottom is without. The newer refrigerants can act like a solvent and dissolve the copper oxide from the walls and it then gets into the system...

Mapp gas and staybrite8 dont get the copper hot enough to cause a problem like accet and stick silver solder do.

 

[Jim greengo]

This is correct for sure! I worked behind the counter for 18 years and spoke directly to multiple factory reps. The reps even had training sessions in our store to MAKE SURE the installers are doing things correctly.
I assure you.....if you ARE NOT purging with nitrogen while brazing in a system with an electronic TXV, you WILL be going back and fixing it. The mechanical TXV's would tolerate the debris floating through where it would find it's way into the filter drier. The ELECTRONIC ones in the mini splits and the 18+ SEER equipment have the tiniest holes that will plug up.

I dont braze systems I use staybrite 8,I've cut open plenty of copper that was put together with staybrite over the years to show students what a good joint looks like back when I taught plumbing.
No black oxidation inside of the tubing or fittings after using staybrite 8 with no nitrogen running through it.
Houses get plumbed everyday using staybrite8 without problems.
I use stick silver solder on any water service splices/repairs made underground,you can see the difference between it and staybrite joints,the difference is night and day with the black crud around the stick solder joints.

 

[Terry D]

I have read about staybrite #8. Looks like it is pretty much like sweating copper. Does it hold up like silver solder brazing?