Objective comparison of Snap-on?

[djcrunkmix]

Is there any objective comparison done on Snap-on tools vs. lets say - Craftsman?

I've been searching all over the net and couldn't find why people are so crazy over Snap-on tools. I don't know if there is an objective way of measuring "quality" but one can do metrology on say machining tolerances, surface finish, tensile strength test, fatigue test, hardness test, corrosion and wear testing, etc etc...

What the hell is so good about them, can some one explain? Kindly enlighten. I am open to listening and learning

 

[Danglerb]

Almost certainly everybody from Harbor Freight to Hazet do some level of "real" testing, and the chances of that kind of information reaching the general public is pretty much ZERO for a bunch of reasons. I don't think would be all that valuable anyway as different people use and abuse their tools different ways.

For example Snapon is known to have bit sockets that are very hard and wear very slowly vs Hazet, which are "tougher" but more likely to show wear sooner.

One of the reasons mechanics like Snapon is that Snapon caters to mechanics, and warrants tools for life so they see problem tools and make improvements.

 

[outlander800]

These threads are ridiclous, round and round we go. Go buy some and your questions will be answered.

 

[diesel research]

Why do you prefer cman over harbor freight? It surely is more than sheer strength/function, because in quite a few cases the HF may outperform.

Other human emotion factors are at play, like customer service, politics (COO), convenience, variety of tool selection, warranty, what your family/friends used to use, or even an attempt to maintain some sort of image with potential boss or customer or peers.

Now that you have thought about why you like craftsman more than some of these other brands, you have the answer to your own question.

 

[bart1]

There are some German magazines that test and publish results that have been postEd here. If we weren't so litigious and scared of losing advertising dollars here, we could do the same.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

Is there any objective comparison done on Snap-on tools vs. lets say - Craftsman?

I've been searching all over the net and couldn't find why people are so crazy over Snap-on tools. I don't know if there is an objective way of measuring "quality" but one can do metrology on say machining tolerances, surface finish, tensile strength test, fatigue test, hardness test, corrosion and wear testing, etc etc...

What the hell is so good about them, can some one explain? Kindly enlighten. I am open to listening and learning

There are other places to troll. The fish ain't biting here.

 

[diesel research]

There are some German magazines that test and publish results that have been postEd here. If we weren't so litigious and scared of losing advertising dollars here, we could do the same.

WTF? There are plenty of Garage Journal tests. One guy did the socket grip test, and I think holeshot did a torque test?

Of course, those were sockets and maybe rachets.

The german "magazine" actually seemed like a hazet advertisement.

 

[Jononon]

There are some German magazines that test and publish results that have been postEd here. If we weren't so litigious and scared of losing advertising dollars here, we could do the same.

I just went to hunt for those, but unfortunately they're just 'bandwidth exceeded' gifs now.

With a bit of luck Monte might repost them

Typically Snap-on is a mid-field performer, overall, in those tests, performing relatively well but being the highest priced contender.

 

[Jononon]

The german "magazine" actually seemed like a hazet advertisement.

Hazet did not win.

 

[nato]

Sometimes, when you can't find exactly what you need in the search query, you may simply need to re-word your search topic...


Oh, and BTW:

 

[Fedwrench]

The problem with comparing any tool truck brand to a non tool truck brand is that you're paying for service with a tool truck brand. Truck to you service, a much wider selection of sizes, shapes, lengths, and other options when it comes to ratchets, wrenches, etc. Pay as you earn weekly payments. A much larger selection of vehicle specific specialty tools.
These are all factors that are built into the price of a tool in addition to the tool itself.
Another way of looking at it, is that many non truck brands engineer tools to meet a certain price point. Snap on engineers tools to do a job first and then figures out what to price it at.
It's all a question of what you can live with in terms of quality and price. Lastly, a lifetime warranty on a poorly made tool, gives you a lifetime supply of failed tools.

 

[diesel research]

Hazet did not win.

I think it did in "ultimate strength". They just gave an honorable mention to gedore or some other cheap made in india tool as a cheapshot to the other "contenders".

I went back and looked, yes Hazet was declared "top quality".

 

[Jononon]

I think it did in "ultimate strength". They just gave an honorable mention to gedore or some other cheap made in india tool as a cheapshot to the other "contenders".

I would be extremely surprised if the Gedore wrench they tested was old Gedore India stock.

I went back and looked, yes Hazet was declared "top quality".

Link?

 

[Monte]

"Preis" = Price
"Maßhaltigkeit Maulseite" = dimensional accuracy open end
"Maßhaltigkeit Ringseite" = dimensional accuracy box end
"Maulbreite" = thickness open end
"Ringbreite" = height box end
"NM max. Maul" = maximum newtonmeter open end
"NM max. Ring" = maximum newtonmeter box end

"Top-Preis" = top price
"Top-Qualität" = top quality
"Testsieger" = Test winner

 

[bart1]

WTF? There are plenty of Garage Journal tests. One guy did the socket grip test, and I think holeshot did a torque test?

Of course, those were sockets and maybe rachets.

The german "magazine" actually seemed like a hazet advertisement.

I'm talking about published magazines, not individuals testing products.

See Monte's post - not sure how it's a Hazet advert. I like my 600Ns, though

 

[diesel research]

I'm talking about published magazines, not individuals testing products.

I don't know of any mags that consistently speak of hand tools? I'm sure they exist, but overall, that would likely be a very small subscriber base.

 

[bart1]

I don't know of any mags that consistently speak of hand tools? I'm sure they exist, but overall, that would likely be a very small subscriber base.

The review linked above comes from a car magazine. ACtually, it's a really good mag. Covers all makes of older cars and lots of extras like the tool test shown here. Maybe we need a US version of that!

http://www.oldtimer-markt.de/#

 

[copterdoctor]

in before the lock........ again..... for the 50+ time......

 

[Jononon]

The review linked above comes from a car magazine. ACtually, it's a really good mag. Covers all makes of older cars and lots of extras like the tool test shown here. Maybe we need a US version of that!

http://www.oldtimer-markt.de/#

Classic and Sportscar and Practical Classics in the UK also review hand tools. Surely there's at least one US market magazine which does so ?

 

[diesel research]

I've never saw a tool review or even much of an article on hand tools in your typical car or 4x4 magazines. Sometimes they might have a short section introducing "cool new tools" but the description is only whatever the manufacturer submits.

Sometimes they will show you how cheaply you can outfit a garage or something, but it's not typically much as far as hand tools or even speaking of longevity or performance.

 

[djcrunkmix]

Guys: I think the question imposed is not intended for trolling purposes. I am a young guy and will be investing soon on quality tools. Sure, there is nothing wrong in being biased towards a brand but purely from a technical perspective, what makes Snap-on tools so damn desirable?

I think this is completely logical to inquire and there is absolutely no intention ignite flame wars here. Calm down.

Without scientific evidence, I would have a hard time believing in anything...heck, I doubt myself often times and take a step back. Its a proper way to learn. I am an engineer and engineers have a data driven mindset. Sorry guys.

I have no problems in accepting the fact that Snap-on tools are better if there is sufficient data....but just the act of ASKING somehow is TROLLING? Why can't I question?

 

[diesel research]

All you have to do is answer the following:

Why do you prefer cman over harbor freight? It surely is more than sheer strength/function, because in quite a few cases the HF may outperform.

Other human emotion factors are at play, like customer service, politics (COO), convenience, variety of tool selection, warranty, what your family/friends used to use, or even an attempt to maintain some sort of image with potential boss or customer or peers.

Now that you have thought about why you like craftsman more than some of these other brands, you have the answer to your own question.

Unfortunately, you will find out later in life, that as an engineer, just because you designed something with strength, performance, and durability in mind, does not mean accounting or the consumer public will accept it.

As mentioned, it is more than a technical difference, there is the human emotion factor.

 

[canuckian]

Snap on makes really good tools, I doubt many would argue. Are they the best in the world? depends on the application and user opinion. Is every tool with their name on it a top quality tool? I don't think so and for those few sub-par tools, I seek out another brand that meets my expectations better. Their dual 80 ratchets are unmatched according to a lot of people but there are also people that claim their Matco's and Cornwells are of superior quality. Some prefer German made tools and yes, some prefer Craftsman. The way I see it is Snap On has been around for many many years selling their tools at exorborant prices and it doesn't look like they'll be going away anytime soon so they must be doing somehting right. Sure, their tools are high quality and that's part of why people like them but where Snap On shines, in my opinion is in their service. If you're a pro (the people the company is designed around), the tool truck rolls up to your place of work, sells you tools, and warranties said tools - most times right on the spot. The pro can go right back to work and never has to go to Sears to deal with the knuckle draggers they have there dealing with the public. Extra cost and convenience often trumps having to deal with hassles - I know it often does for me and I'm only a DIY'er.

My advice is to go out and buy a few tools from different companies (yes, even Snap On) and make your own choice as to what the better tools for YOU are.

 

[Skin]

I have no problems in accepting the fact that Snap-on tools are better if there is sufficient data....but just the act of ASKING somehow is TROLLING? Why can't I question?

Because it makes people defensive. The main points to SO is prestige, having support on location, and mostly domestic manufacture. The negatives are price and price and price. These threads always seem to get far more complicated than need be. Snap-On makes a quality tool and nobody argues against that. If your paycheck allows for you to splurge on them, do it. On the other hand if you dont make much money or are simply budget conscious shop elsewhere. There are so many tool manufacturers today that make a quality competing product that it is simply ignorant to focus only on SO deluding yourself that they somehow make a product [especially a basic hand tool] nobody else can.

My one big beef with SO, besides price, is the fact that over the recent years they've begun to eliminate the USA stamp off their products they once celebrated.

 

[justanengineer]

One thing you have to keep in mind when buying tools is that the tools are only one extremely small factor in the equation. Just as with any trade, there are extremely talented people doing outstanding work with cheap tools and those lacking skill with expensive tools. I think being successful is more about recognizing the root cause of a problem and being able to overcome it. As for myself, I think many on here tend to get blinded by having "the best" tools available and seriously overpay to "collect" new tools that they made 500 million of. I have many fine tools by all of the popular brands and quite a few obscure ones too. I never thought SnapOn had a truly superior tool of any kind. Not to bash them, bc yes they were high quality, but other brands had individual tools they were better at making - JH Williams with ratchets, Sun for testing equipment, etc etc. SnapOn became popular because they were predictably fairly high quality tools and they were delivered to you while you worked. They made enough tools for the average mechanic, but IMHO they never did diversify enough or make enough specialty tools, which is why I advocate other brands as well. Craftsman and some of the other brands never did any of this over the decades. They were made by whoever the cheapest contractor for Sears was, to meet Sears' quality standards. They also made a lot of fairly high quality tools, but they werent as predictable in the quality department - you might have to return one for a better one next year. Unfortunately everything declines with age, and both brands have done so in recent decades. You wont find me buying very many new tools, because I think SnapOn is about where Craftsman was in quality a few decades ago, and Craftsman is ever approaching HF standards. I prefer old tools. Theyre classic, high quality, cheap, and still have that lifetime warranty.

To the OP - only you can determine what your needs are. Consider this, is the risk of dealing with a lesser quality (but usable) tool worth the pain of not having as many tools? I sold my new SnapOn (roller cab full) when I left the military save for a few odds and ends. I then used that money to fund a shop complete with machine tools, a few toys, and a lot more fun. Maybe you need the higher quality's assurance that problems are with you and not the newest/shinyest/most expensive tool. As for me, I dont, I buy what what I can, when I can, and throw out the trash. Its what works best for me.

 

[OGJordan]

Personal opinion on it is it's much more of a status thing. SnapOn makes excellent tools. There may be tools that are nicer, stronger, shinier, feel better, etc. but they're not LOADS better. There ARE tools that are junk, sure. But a $1x.** Stanley ratchet from Walmart will take a nut off just as well as a $1xx.** SnapOn ratchet 99% of the time. It's a lot like cars, I would personally NEVER drive a Chevy Cobalt if I could afford a Mercedes S500, but the fact of the matter is if you just want to drive to work, either will work.

 

[copterdoctor]

Guys: I think the question imposed is not intended for trolling purposes. I am a young guy and will be investing soon on quality tools. Sure, there is nothing wrong in being biased towards a brand but purely from a technical perspective, what makes Snap-on tools so damn desirable?

I think this is completely logical to inquire and there is absolutely no intention ignite flame wars here. Calm down.

Without scientific evidence, I would have a hard time believing in anything...heck, I doubt myself often times and take a step back. Its a proper way to learn. I am an engineer and engineers have a data driven mindset. Sorry guys.

I have no problems in accepting the fact that Snap-on tools are better if there is sufficient data....but just the act of ASKING somehow is TROLLING? Why can't I question?

when you've been here for a while, you'll understand why the questions you've asked are so hotly debated here... as someone said, use the search and see for yourself...
one guy started a thread, (he's posted in this thread already), was willing to do hardness testing, and a whole battery of other testing.. basically it took one smartass comment to send that thread into a downward spiral, and was eventually locked...
I think the fact that you are defensive, let's me know that you aren't as naive as you are trying to portray.... hence the trolling comments...
sure, you probably had good intentions, but I bet this thread is closed in a matter of days, if not hours...

 

[roadlizard7]

A friend of mine who was a Porsche mechanic for years told me that the only place where Snap-on tools are undoubtedly superior is in their sockets and box end wrenches.

Snap-on's design is patented and uses curved sides on the inside of the socket that grip the nut on the flats of the nut rather than the corners, eliminating messing up the nut corners, where you would have a hard time loosening or tightening them any more. This is especially important for a professional mechanic who doesn't want to have to deal with messed up nuts on the cars he works on regularly.

Otherwise, he said there was not much difference between top brands with lifetime warrantees.

 

[Steve from Socal]

The comparison of like tools such as a socket or combination wrench is not static, forty years ago when I started buying tools Snap-On was clearly well above the rest in strength, fit and feel. A lot has changed; material science has improved the alloys used, manufacturing processes have become more precise and, the unique steps and processes that were once very costly have become common place in manufacturing.

The fit and finish of Snap-On is still superior to the rest IMHO. That said I have been favorably impressed with some new low cost tools at places like HF. A lot of what makes a snap-On tool garage jewelry is the detail, the precise broaching and well proportioned shape and size and, most of all the finish. The finish is where a great deal of the price difference was traditionally found. Fully polishing a tool by hand and chrome plating it to a high luster is labor intensive and chrome has always been an expensive process.

The forging dies used by tool makers years ago were hand finished and time was money, do you make a workable die or strive for perfection. The amount of pressure and number of hits was also a manufacturing consideration. There are several more parts I could go into but, you get the idea. Starting a few decades ago manufacturing was revolutionized by technology that made many of the more highly refined processes and methods widely available at affordable cost. Technology also eliminated the need for highly skilled individuals to monitor and perform these processes in small batches or one at a time. The world we live in today is far different than it was then. Snap-On didn't compromise on their quality for other brands to rival them, the rest of the industry improved to compete with them.

The same thing can be seen in industry after industry. The auto industry was the leader of this as the largest in the world. The Japanese were first and took what nearly 30 years for them to achieve their status. Look at the Korean manufactures today, in little more than a decade they have become world class cars. The ability to make world class products is NOT confined to a single region or group today. There are quantifiable standards that a company anywhere in the world can use to measure their products, if they want to make a great product, they know it will take X of materials and X of labor. Price points temper the ideal with marketability.

A HF wrench may not be equal to a Snap-On but, it is far closer than it was just five years ago and for many uses its only difference is appearance and price. Perhaps if you use a tool to a high percentage of it rated capacity day in day out you may see a difference, for casual use I would suspect either would serve you well for years.

As an aside; 75% of my hand tools are Snap-On, were I starting over I would look at other brands. When I bought most of my tools the difference was much greater.

Steve

 

[Jononon]

Snap-on's design is patented and uses curved sides on the inside of the socket that grip the nut on the flats of the nut rather than the corners, eliminating messing up the nut corners, where you would have a hard time loosening or tightening them any more. This is especially important for a professional mechanic who doesn't want to have to deal with messed up nuts on the cars he works on regularly.

Since Snap-on's Flank-Drive patent lapsed, virtually every brand has sockets with that feature.

 

[richfinn]

I think if you look at the amount of patents registered by the quality tool manufacturers like Snap-On/Hazet/Stahlwille and others, compared to "supermarket brands" you will find that they spend much more on Research and Development. When you link this with how Snap-On markets tools (they come to you), warranty scheme (your dealer who comes to you) and just how nice they are to hold and work with, and the vast array of choice in colours/finish, even to the point that they build sets for specific types of mechanics/technicians and then sell them on affordable credit plans Internationally
When I was Young the only company that would give me credit was Snap-On (this helped me get a mortgage as I had no other proof I could or would meet the repayments).

Its simple, (and being British it galls me to say it) they have from the start formulated a plan to get very good quality products that technicians want to buy and cherish to the most amount of people in the world to make the highest profit. Then instead of keeping all that profit they invest some of it back into the business because they know that to win you cant stay still.

Is everything they make the best of the best? (no). Will I always turn to them if I need a good quality tool? (yes, because they helped me)

 

[WHT]

There are some German magazines that test and publish results that have been postEd here. If we weren't so litigious and scared of losing advertising dollars here, we could do the same.

Yes, and they almost always rate the German tools as best. Funny how that works.

 

[diesel research]

It doesn't take a lot of data, observation, or even staring to see how a raised panel ratchet or wrench (from certain manufacturers) and the current line of sockets (from said brand), have a relatively poor fit and finish. Let's not even discuss screwdrivers from said brand. BUT at one point in time, they DID produce a better alternative wrench, do currently produce a better alternative ratchet and screwdriver. Of course, those rarely come in any of the popular kits that people prefer. The torque wrenches don't have a stellar reputation either.

They do have some mighty fine swivel impacts! (this coming from a SO swivel owner who would likely prefer the cman) Their sets have a lot of "holes" or missing sizes. The lineup does not include as many specialty lengths or shapes or sizes. Their cordless line is in a lower performance level. Toolboxes are in a completely different level. The list could go on and on. Not to mention the above mentioned human emotions.

 

[djcrunkmix]

This is all good information. Some people have broken it down for me

Thanks guys! I am probable going to buy some Snap-on tools and try them out.

 

[garfunkle24]

Will I always turn to them if I need a good quality tool? (yes, because they helped me)

You mean they bought you.

Is anyone really naive enough to think that corporations do them favours?

Yes, and they almost always rate the German tools as best. Funny how that works.

Yes, isn't it weird that a country that places higher emphasis on empirical testing and data than chrome and marketing would have higher quality products....

 

[Busted Bolts]

Seeing and using is believing, Most GJ's who post here about SO use them every day like myself. In 25yrs I have only broken 3 SO sockets due to fault of my own (cheater), I have only worn out at the box end 2 common combo wrenches. I'm picky. I don't just buy the name, I have bought, used, abused, my assortments. Each time I would get another set it would live up to my expectations. Have I tried others, Yes, when on a simple job, with nothing at stake some prooved ok, but none of the ones I owned other than SO have the the same dependability as my current stock. You see it alot on the forum of people very satisfied of their purchases. There are other good tools made by others, but when a product meets what it says in a commercial enviroment, and even the wide variety of specialty tools do the same, well you end up with LOYAL customers. I hope you try a SO branded set of hardgoods, put them through YOUR tests and evaluate for your self. The engineers have done their part, now the customer is the ultimate engineer/tester. Good luck and let us know what you selected and how you feel through your useage.

 

[muddyjoe15]

I don't know of any mags that consistently speak of hand tools? I'm sure they exist, but overall, that would likely be a very small subscriber base.

How many members does this forum have?! I dont think it would be that small a subscriber base! Id be one for sure!

 

[hammergodthor]

Guys: I think the question imposed is not intended for trolling purposes. I am a young guy and will be investing soon on quality tools. Sure, there is nothing wrong in being biased towards a brand but purely from a technical perspective, what makes Snap-on tools so damn desirable?

I think this is completely logical to inquire and there is absolutely no intention ignite flame wars here. Calm down.

Without scientific evidence, I would have a hard time believing in anything...heck, I doubt myself often times and take a step back. Its a proper way to learn. I am an engineer and engineers have a data driven mindset. Sorry guys.

I have no problems in accepting the fact that Snap-on tools are better if there is sufficient data....but just the act of ASKING somehow is TROLLING? Why can't I question?

Personally, I don't think you're trolling at all, I understand your question and I am glad you were the one to ask it. I think this thread is a good one, (so far) and I encourage frank discussion vs. flaming and arguing.

Monte, thank you for posting that article. I don't remember seeing it before.

 

[diesel research]

How many members does this forum have?! I dont think it would be that small a subscriber base! Id be one for sure!

13,500 "active" members. Another 70,000 considered inactive. Some banned, some deceased, some "quit".

A small fraction of them would be willing to pay for print when they can get the web version for free.

There are a few professional trade magazines, but they are so obscure and often don't even have a real grasp on the ground level of the industry. Or prefer to talk about the verus and mode$06 and evap leaks all day.

 

[richfinn]

You mean they bought you.

Is anyone really naive enough to think that corporations do them favours?

Yep they got me

Looks like Subaru got you