Occasional heat for new garage. What type?

[hackbagger]

I'm taking ddawg16's advice and starting a new thread. (Thanks for the tip)
I recently built a new garage 30X40X10. I plan on insulating and heating a 30X30X10 portion of it as a workshop for occasional use. Like a couple times a week in the winter. I live in Wisconsin 80 mi N of Milwaukee. A common temperature around here in winter is 20's and it can get down to below zero occasionally. I've read many threads on this and other forums regarding the cost involved in the various types of heaters. Now for my question..I get all the cost calculations (it is only part of my decision making process) but which method of heat is the best for purely occasional use? I may use it during the week once a week or maybe two times during the winter. I don't have a shop full of expensive power tools..just a few. I called the Sterling Mfg (propane hanging heater) tech service fellow and he mentioned letting the propane heater "run out for thirty minutes or so" so you don't get condensation problems in the heat exchanger. That would mean using th garage then running back out to it to tuen off the gas after it "ran out" (i am not exactly sure what he meant by that) For sure i would go separate combustion chamber and vented BUT now I'm wondering if electric would be less complicated for my occasional use. Comments? Electricity here is definitely more costly than gas BUT i don't want to create a proiblem. Nor am i looking for a hassle when i use it. ...
BTW the space to heat is 30X30X10...propane would be about 45,000 BTU model.
I would definitely NOT let the heater run all the time regardless of the outside temp. I wish to have it heated ONLY when it is being used. That could be every day or once a week/month.. regardless of the cost...which method of heating makes more sense for this type of use? Comments are appreciated!!

 

[CNGsaves]

More variables like whether you can connect to your fuel supply from house?? Does it have propane or NG? How far from house to garage to extend that to garage . . . any major obstacles in way for buried yellow polyethlene plastic pipe? These will be extra costs for propane or NG, but I'd bet long-term that NG would be the lowest cost of these two.

You might already be leaning towards electric only due to your indication of occasional heating only. Will your electric setup in garage handle a seperate breaker dedicated for that 220v electric heater? Used Advanced Search of this GJ forum by clicking on Search in black line at top, as bunch of threads mention specific models of electric heaters that GJer's have used and like. Good luck.

 

[ebstein]

wow...I was just going to ask a similar question...I have 2 garages...both 22x24...1 attached and 1 detached...I've been thinking about a hot dawg heater, but since they would be occasionally used(2 times/week)have been considering going the electric route too...

 

[theoldwizard1]

First, a bit of advice. Consider insulating a smaller area. In that latitude you need 6" in the walls and at least 12" in the ceiling.

I would look into a wood burning stove or a pellet stove, although some have said their insurance company's won't insure out buildings heated that way.

Wood can be a lot of work, cutting, splitting, stacking, etc.

Pellets are certainly not as easy as gas/oil or electric, but they produce a lot of heat, and the fuel is much more manageable than wood.

Actually, if you can find an old oil burner/furnace cheap that might be you best solution ! Not the most cost effective, but if it is for occasional use it is a reasonable solution. Make sure you tank is in good condition and is accessible for a refill in the middle of winter although I'll bet you won't use 500 gallons in a winter !

 

[Ray916MN]

Which type of heat and heater is best depends on exactly how you intend to use your garage. As you intend to let the garage drop down to the ambient outdoor temperature, time to heat up, how long you will use it while it is heated and what you intend to do in the shop all make a difference.

One of the most efficient ways to heat fast is infrared radiation heaters. These are the kinds of heaters used outdoors in bus shelters. They heat really fast (minutes). These heat the solid surfaces and air in their line of coverage. They are particular good at heating just an area to be worked in and since they heat solid surfaces they also heat up what you are working on. As you intend to let your shop drop to the outside temperature you need to decide whether all you want is for the air in the shop to be warm or whether you also want what you are working on to be warm too. These heaters are available as electric, natural gas and propane fueled and can often be bought inexpensively at salvage. Care needs to be taken with placement and use of these heaters. They can heat solid surfaces enough to cause damage to finishes.

The other choice for quick (relative term) heat is forced air. These heaters are good at heating a space, but of course they take a while to get the entire space up to temperature. The 80000 btu furnace in my 1200 sq. ft. shop with a 14' ceiling takes about an hour to bring my shop up from 44F to 64F. In a shop your size, if you assume the shop has dropped to 10F, you can imagine it is going to take quite a bit longer to get up to temp. This isn't a really efficient way to heat, if you plan on working in your shop for an hour at a time.

Personally I heat my shop to a continuous 44F, so I don't have to worry about liquids freezing and so when I go out to work on stuff it doesn't take too long to warm up and the stuff I'm working on, my tools aren't so cold that I need to wear gloves to use them and don't have to worry about plastics shattering.

 

[dandan111]

I had a fahrenheat 5000 watt installed in my attached 3 car garage. I have the temp set at 45 deg. If you want to work out there it heats up fast. I wanted a simple install and the cost of the heater was what I wanted to stay around.
If it costs me a arm and a leg to keep it at 45deg I will have to try turning it off and on as needed.The heater seems like it never runs and is always over 45deg when I check the thermostat.
That 5000 watt handles my 700sq ft no problem.

 

[Vicster]

I use a Monitor direct vent kero heater that I picked up on Craig's List. You can program it to maintain a specific temp, come on/off at specific times. Heats fast and sips kero.

 

[Highbeam]

He wants you to let the propane heater "run out" so that it fully heats itself and the exhaust plumbing to be sure that the heater itself is hot enough to evaporate any combustion condensate that may form within the heating system. These liquids are very corrosive. Think of it like letting your car warm up on a long run once in awhile instead of short trips. Short trips are hard on equipment.

Your first question is about the type of heater:

What are you doing in the shop when you need the heat? If you are staying in one place at like a workbench then a radiant heater can warm this location with minimal fuel use, especially effective for short work periods. If you are moving around the shop and plan on longer work sessions then a forced air unit is better and a hanging unit heater fits the bill.

All of these are available using electric or propane and that is a different question:

Cost of equipment and cost of fuel. If electric is the same or only slightly more money then by all means use electric. You already have it piped to your shop and there are no combustion byproducts to poison you, no open flame to explode, no chimney to leak, and no propane tank to fill and make room for.

 

[hackbagger]

I'd be moving around the shop working at a bench or on vehicles. After reading all the great responses I'm leaning towards electric due to the intermittent use of the building. headed for florida for vacation so i have some time to overthink the situation!! thanks everyone.

 

[ebstein]

yeah... I don't hang out in the garage too much either... just have a few beers now and then... probably only heat it 4-5 hrs a week... I'm leaning towards electric too...

 

[dbabicky]

I live about 60 miles North of GreenBay, WI and I have an uninsulated 55X60 steel building. I run a turbo heater on #1 off-road diesel and it is enough to knock the chill out of the air,(t-shirt and flannel temps when it's around 10* outside),while I work. As long as you use #1 offroad fuel, you don't get the fumes of regular diesel,( #2), and don't have the cost of kerosene. 13 gallons will run for 10-11 hours straight. (175,000 BTU)

 

[Highbeam]

I live about 60 miles North of GreenBay, WI and I have an uninsulated 55X60 steel building. I run a turbo heater on #1 off-road diesel and it is enough to knock the chill out of the air,(t-shirt and flannel temps when it's around 10* outside),while I work. As long as you use #1 offroad fuel, you don't get the fumes of regular diesel,( #2), and don't have the cost of kerosene. 13 gallons will run for 10-11 hours straight. (175,000 BTU)

Ouch, if you pay a low 3$ per gallon that's 4$ per hour! We buy fancy beer for about 8$ per six pack. I don't even drink beer at the cost per hour of that heat.

 

[VHF]

I have a friend with a 26'x36' which he heats only occasionly for doing car projects. He put in radiant electric cove heaters, installed at the top of the wall where it meets the ceiling (doesn't take up valuable wall space or get in the way.) I forget his total wattage, but I know he has four 20A 240V breakers, so that should be somewhere close to 15kW total. He said he doubled the recommended number of heaters for quick warm-up, and it only takes 15 minutes to bring his garage from 35F up to a comfortable working temperature.

I'm considering these myself... once I get my 100A power feed completed and some insulation!

The nice thing about radiant (whether electric or gas, in-floor or overhead) is that it will warm up you, your car, tools, etc. (and eventually even the floor) instead of just warming up the air. In-floor radiant probably doesn't make sense for occasional use due to the mass of the floor (takes hours to heat up), which leaves overhead. Lots of fire houses and commercial shops use overhead gas-fired radiant heaters.

There are web sites that you let compare the cost of propane in electricity. Right now in my area of Wisconsin propane is slightly cheaper, although there have been times the last 5 years when electricity was actually cheaper.

Electric is probably easiest of occasional use, then it comes down to radiant (such as the cove heaters or ceiling mounted IR heaters) or forced air like a Dayton G73 or portable garage heater.

 

[jvitez]

Honestly for a couple of times a week I'd use a portable propane heater, either the "top hat" style or "torpedo" style. I've got a torpedo style one, and it distributes heat very well but is noisy. Buy a couple of 40 lb propane tanks (about as much as I want to carry) and fire up the heater when you want.

Depending on how many electric circuits you have planned, you could also buy as many cheap 1500W plug in heaters as you have circuits. Heat up the space with the propane heater and maintain the heat with plug in heaters for a few hours.

If you prefer a more permanent solution there's nothing wrong with electric heat. Sure it might cost more to run, but as you said you don't want a hassle, electric heaters are cheaper than fuel burning ones (at least the vented fixed-in-place types), run cleanly, no fumes, no burning flame, and are completely quite if you use radiant heat.

For a permanent solution I'd strongly consider electric radiant heat: either cove type heaters, radiant panels, or radiant fixtures. Second choice would be fan forced electric. I'm thinking of putting a cove heater above my workbench.

Cove heater:
http://www.ouellet.com/commercial-heating-specs.aspx?i=96

Radiant fixture:
http://www.ouellet.com/commercial-heating-specs.aspx?i=21

Radiant panel:
http://www.sshcinc.com/woodshopseries.htm

 

[D KRAGER]

BTW the space to heat is 30X30X10...propane would be about 45,000 BTU model.

If you are heating occasionally, do not go by the recommendation. Those BTU calculators are made for continuous heating. I have a 30x32 that I heat weekends and some during the week. I have it well insulated. Never gets below 40 usually. I have a hanging LP furnace (like a hotdawg, just old) 100,000 btu. Yes it's too big when I leave it on for extended time, but to bring the building up to temp quick it works great. It takes less than a half hour to bring it up to 60-65.


I got my hanging furnace for free, but:

If I were to heat it all the time at a constant temp I would go for the 45,000 BTU.

If I were to buy a new one for occasional use I'd go for a 75,000 BTU.