Occupancy sensor for shop lighting

[signcrafter]

Thinking about eliminating the switches for shop lighting and putting in occupancy sensors. It's a 4 car garage with shelves dividing it up. Main reason is want to eliminate the switches off the wall to free up some space, have cabinets and shelves that will be covering some of the switches. But would also be nice to not have to turn lights on and off. Only concern is lights shutting off while working if I'm under the car or something and the sensor(assuming mounted on ceiling) doesn't see movement in a certain amount of time.

Just wondering if anyone has done this and the pros and cons of doing this. Right now there is 2 circuits for lighting, one in each half of the 4 car garage. I will be putting new LED lights in at some point so can start fresh with whatever I decide to do.

 

[The Cobbler]

I'm not a fan of them myself.... I did however install one in the volunteer warehouse bathroom so that the light & fan shuts off after 5 minutes of exiting and it works as intended. it is a small space . on larger spaces I can see them shutting down as you mentioned., but they do have an override .
Myself, I would not do it, but that's only a personal thing, not saying you shouldn't ... probably I'm no help!

 

[PCustoms]

Main reason is want to eliminate the switches off the wall to free up some space, have cabinets and shelves that will be covering some of the switches.

How does having an occupancy switch free up space?

It still needs to be mounted in a box, and arguably takes MORE space as it needs to clearly see occupancy....

Maybe consolidate switches and/or a remote switch?

 

[signcrafter]

How does having an occupancy switch free up space?

It still needs to be mounted in a box, and arguably takes MORE space as it needs to clearly see occupancy....

Maybe consolidate switches and/or a remote switch?

They would be ceiling mounted sensors.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-Ceiling-Mount-Occupancy-Motion-Sensor-White-OSC10-M0W-OSC10-M0W/205744061?g_store=&source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D27E-027_002_WIRING_DEVIC-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-NA-Pmax_BHU24_PMAXTEST&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D27E-027_002_WIRING_DEVIC-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-NA-Pmax_BHU24_PMAXTEST-18138358799--&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=18138359900&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UcGRzJTsjNjJaKSQ3bo0QdtN&gclid=CjwKCAjwt-_FBhBzEiwA7QEqyC2VoZZ6hRUQpJHxnqeDYvglkb7m7L7hM3_qjJp06R2thBiPbf5-XhoCbK8QAvD_BwE

 

[PCustoms]

They would be ceiling mounted sensors.

Gotcha!

Was thinking wall sensors.

I have 2 circuits in my garage, 1 has screw base fixtures and is just enough to get though without tripping. Plan was to add a sensor to one of the switches but I haven't bothered yet.

I wouldn't want my main work lights on a sensor.

Are you walls open?

Is there a bet place for the switches?

Maybe you could have a "walk" circuit and a few "work" circuits, that way you have some light if the sense can't see you

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Another member tagged me about this post.

I have my shop separated into two lighting circuits. Front half and back half. Building size is 44x62x16. Some say I got carried away ... I put each light on its own switch! There's a single programmable motion sensor for each bank of lights. The low wattage sensor controls a 20A+ RIB relay that ends the power to each bank of lights. The lighting circuit is 20A front and rear.

In addition to these circuits, I installed a 20A rated 60 minute mechanical rotary timer. It's parrelled to the motion sensor. So if I'm going to be stationary too long, or laying under a car a while. I'll twist it for 60 minutes. At the end 60 minutes I know how long I've been there when it cuts off.

It's a PITA to be doing something and the lights cut off! Then you're waving your arms or throwing you hat at the sensors.

I'll go back to sleep now OccupantRJ. Thanks for waking me up!

 

[WildBill]

I have something like that HD link. I like it, nice to have the lights turn on when I walk into the shop carrying a bunch of stuff. I set it to the longest time between movements. There have been only a couple of times when the lights shut off while I was under a car for a long time, I just stuck an arm or leg out and it turned them back on. But it is something to consider.

 

[PhantomEB]

I would only do this if it were strictly a parking or storage garage. Not a work shop.

 

[signcrafter]

I'm not a fan of them myself.... I did however install one in the volunteer warehouse bathroom so that the light & fan shuts off after 5 minutes of exiting and it works as intended. it is a small space . on larger spaces I can see them shutting down as you mentioned., but they do have an override .
Myself, I would not do it, but that's only a personal thing, not saying you shouldn't ... probably I'm no help!

Ya I'm kind of on the fence about them right now. Guess it depends on how good they work. I like the idea of walking into the shop and lights coming on, kind of sounds silly but one less step to take or worry about turning off. More of a luxury thing and not a deal breaker. But my wall space is precious and there are 4 switches right now I think. Each about 6-12" from the doorway. So that means I can't put shelving or cabinets or whatever right up to the door. Doesn't seem like much to gain but it would allow me to put some things where I want them without covering up the switches. I could also move the switches but if I'm doing that then could just as easily do occupancy sensors.

 

[strength_and_power]

What about home automation?
Caseta by Lutron would allow you to control your lights via an app, you can set schedules etc. they also have a small remote you could mount anywhere to control the lights.

Lutron Caseta Original Smart Dimmer Switch Kit w/ Hub, with Pico Remote, Wallmount Bracket, & Smart Hub, Works with Alexa, Apple Home, Google Home, 3 Way, 150W, No Neutral Req, P-BDG-PKG1W-A - Amazon.com

Lutron Caseta Original Smart Dimmer Switch Kit w/ Hub, with Pico Remote, Wallmount Bracket, & Smart Hub, Works with Alexa, Apple Home, Google Home, 3 Way, 150W, No Neutral Req, P-BDG-PKG1W-A - Amazon.com

a.co

 

[reader2580]

All of the offices, phone rooms, and conference rooms at my employer have motion sensors. There have been plenty of instances were someone is concentrating on something with little movement, and the lights go off on them. Granted, I have no idea how long the motions have to not see motion to turn off.

 

[u2slow]

Investigate the wiring arrangement. If power is fed to the switches first, it's not that simple to delete the switch boxes.

 

[Skellyii]

I would only do this if it were strictly a parking or storage garage. Not a work shop.

I have to agree with this 1000%.

I've worked in a lot of offices after hours where I had to get up ever so often and move around to trigger the sensors. This got really tricky in rooms with no windows. It was always a royal PITA.

I have a small light in my garage that's triggered by motion, but it's only so if we want to get a tool or get something out of the vehicles we don't have to turn on the overhead lights. My home garage has no windows so it's pitch black in there.

I vote for keeping it simple and just moving the switches, or even just putting shelving around them. A switch block doesn't preclude you from hanging shelves on the wall.

 

[ericm]

Ya I'm kind of on the fence about them right now. Guess it depends on how good they work. I like the idea of walking into the shop and lights coming on, kind of sounds silly but one less step to take or worry about turning off. More of a luxury thing and not a deal breaker. But my wall space is precious and there are 4 switches right now I think. Each about 6-12" from the doorway. So that means I can't put shelving or cabinets or whatever right up to the door. Doesn't seem like much to gain but it would allow me to put some things where I want them without covering up the switches. I could also move the switches but if I'm doing that then could just as easily do occupancy sensors.

You could make or modify a set of shelves to have an opening where the switches are. Or have two half shelves one below and one above. You'd lose only about one shelf's worth of space that way.

 

[u2slow]

I vote for keeping it simple and just moving the switches, or even just putting shelving around them. A switch block doesn't preclude you from hanging shelves on the wall.

Agreed.

80% of my shelving is built-in-place because space is precious and pre-fab stuff doesn't work or fit.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Another member tagged me about this post.

I have my shop separated into two lighting circuits. Front half and back half. Building size is 44x62x16. Some say I got carried away ... I put each light on its own switch! There's a single programmable motion sensor for each bank of lights. The low wattage sensor controls a 20A+ RIB relay that ends the power to each bank of lights. The lighting circuit is 20A front and rear.

In addition to these circuits, I installed a 20A rated 60 minute mechanical rotary timer. It's parrelled to the motion sensor. So if I'm going to be stationary too long, or laying under a car a while. I'll twist it for 60 minutes. At the end 60 minutes I know how long I've been there when it cuts off.

It's a PITA to be doing something and the lights cut off! Then you're waving your arms or throwing you hat at the sensors.

I'll go back to sleep now OccupantRJ. Thanks for waking me up!

That’s for waking me up the other morning!

 

[signcrafter]

What about home automation?
Caseta by Lutron would allow you to control your lights via an app, you can set schedules etc. they also have a small remote you could mount anywhere to control the lights.

Lutron Caseta Original Smart Dimmer Switch Kit w/ Hub, with Pico Remote, Wallmount Bracket, & Smart Hub, Works with Alexa, Apple Home, Google Home, 3 Way, 150W, No Neutral Req, P-BDG-PKG1W-A - Amazon.com

Lutron Caseta Original Smart Dimmer Switch Kit w/ Hub, with Pico Remote, Wallmount Bracket, & Smart Hub, Works with Alexa, Apple Home, Google Home, 3 Way, 150W, No Neutral Req, P-BDG-PKG1W-A - Amazon.com

a.co

I don't think I want automation. My thought is that occupancy sensors to keep it simple, as in not having to deal with switches. So automation adds more then just keeping the switches.

Investigate the wiring arrangement. If power is fed to the switches first, it's not that simple to delete the switch boxes.

Not worried about that, will deal with whatever I need to if I decide to change things. I added a subpanel a couple years ago so if nothing else I can abandon the current setup all together and just run a new circuit for the new lights and sensors. Would be easier to do that anyway.

I have to agree with this 1000%.

I've worked in a lot of offices after hours where I had to get up ever so often and move around to trigger the sensors. This got really tricky in rooms with no windows. It was always a royal PITA.

I have a small light in my garage that's triggered by motion, but it's only so if we want to get a tool or get something out of the vehicles we don't have to turn on the overhead lights. My home garage has no windows so it's pitch black in there.

I vote for keeping it simple and just moving the switches, or even just putting shelving around them. A switch block doesn't preclude you from hanging shelves on the wall.

You could make or modify a set of shelves to have an opening where the switches are. Or have two half shelves one below and one above. You'd lose only about one shelf's worth of space that way.

Agreed.

80% of my shelving is built-in-place because space is precious and pre-fab stuff doesn't work or fit.

I have all metal shelving and cabinets and tool boxes. So they will block the switches and no modifying them. I mean, anything is possible but it's easier to redo the electrical before modifying shelves and cabinets. Moving switches or rewiring isn't an issue.

 

[Aaron_W]

I have some experience working in buildings with sensors instead of on/off switches.

My advice?




Seems like a nice idea, but the sensors don't seem to be very sensitive. Unless you are moving in a very animated way, walking across the room, waving your arms etc, the lights will shut off.

I have one "automatic" light in a covered outdoor work space. Mainly put it in so that if I'm just walking in for a moment, I can see without fumbling for a switch in the dark.
On multiple occasions I'll get drawn into something without turning on the main lights and then have the light cut out. I find myself, usually something heavy in my arms dancing the funky chicken trying to get the light to come back on.
Only self control has kept me from ripping that light off the ceiling and pitching it across the yard. One of these days Alice, To the moon!

Is there anyone that hasn't had the joy of settling in for a nice "meeting" on the porcelain throne only to have the automatic lights shut off leaving you to finish your business in the dark?


Last as somebody who was taught as a child to shut off the light when you leave the room, it drives me bonkers to leave a light on when I'm not using it.

Listen to Nancy.

 

[starquestMM]

I use them for "walk" lighting in the garages. Using multiple motion switches all feeding the same switch leg so the room is covered no matter whats in the way (vehicles).

 

[StickyRX]

We started using these in the shop. One switch now controls like 20 lights

 

[TheEquineFencer]

We started using these in the shop. One switch now controls like 20 lights

Link and cost? I'm curious!

 

[TheEquineFencer]

I like my motion sensor controlled lights! Yes. Once in a great while they can cut off at inopportune times, but it's very seldom.

My main reason for installing them? I had a bad habit of either leaving them on when I'd go up to the house to eat, fall asleep and they'd stay on all night, or sitting in the shop and dozing off and they'd stay on all night. My GF likes them. She said the power bill for the shop dropped 1/3 to 1/2 depending on how much I was in the shop and the time of the year since installing the sensors. I spend a lot of time in the shop.

 

[kngelv]

I am a hard no on motion sensors in a working shop. It sounds like you want to eliminate your switches on the wall and rely on sensors at the ceiling as the only way to turn on the lights? How are you going to turn them off? No motion for a specific time? I can’t believe there’s no spot in a four car garage to put a light switch. This just seems unnecessary at best.

James

 

[ipgenie]

I have a motion circuit that controls a few lights when someone walks into the garage and shuts them off after 10 minutes. This is great because now the kids and wife don't leave the lights on.

I have another circuit with the 'working' lights on a smart switch. This circuit lights up the garage brightly for working and is turned on and off manually. That way I won't get stuck in the dark while working on something that could injure me.

The smart switch is nice because I can turn off the working lights remotely with my phone if I crawl in bed and then remember that I left them on.

 

[mike93lx]

I have one of these in my garage. The price right now is stupid... I paid $36 in 2022 for one, so shop around.

Sensor Switch CMRB 9 Standard Range https://a.co/d/1H9LW4u

I use it on one strip light to give enough light to pass through or grab something quickly, with the rest on a switch.

I have never found it difficult to trigger... Opening either door instantly kicks it off and the run time is selectable. It's mounted at about 12.5' high and I'd have no concerns with using a couple in a bigger shop.

 

[bwringer]

What I want for my garage is a switch on the wall with three positions:

- Stay on
- Controlled by motion sensor(s) and timer(s) - most likely the default most of the time
- Stay off

We all have similar switches in our cars for the interior lights (controlled by the door switches, not motion sensors) but for some damfool reason I really haven't seen anything similar for garage/house lighting.

Maybe it's out there, but it's not on the shelf at Home Despot, or I missed it. Dunno. Or maybe you need to get into fancy-schmancy wifi controlled switches to get this function, and poke at your phone for a while every time you want to go out into the shop, which also seems unsatisfactory.

I actually had a night light in my garage for a long time because if the lights on the switch at the door were off, I could create a somewhat dangerous situation by shutting off all the lights at the bench and leaving no way to see how to get to the door. The night light failed a while back, but I suppose I should scare up another.



I have a motion sensor with a timer in our guest bathroom to control the fan and the light, and it's honestly a little odd how this interacts with psychology and habit. I had to put a physical light switch back in because people had a very strong compulsion to turn out the light, and so would poke at the sensor until everything shut off, then shut the door leaving the room to, er, "marinate" with no ventilation, a lovely surprise for the next guest. Or they'd leave the door open in order to share the miasma with the entire living room. In other words, the compulsion to turn off the light was much stronger than the social conditioning to not subject other people to your untoward smells.

By adding a light switch, folks can satisfy their urges to turn off the light, and thus quiet the voices of their fathers (the lighting is LED, so energy usage is near nil during the five minutes the timer allows). Most guests now leave the sensor alone so that the fan can do its job.

I'd like to find a way to somehow change the timing if someone is in the shower, so they don't have to stick an arm out and wave if they're in the shower more than five minutes. Maybe some sort of humidity sensor...?

 

[StickyRX]

Link and cost? I'm curious!

Amazon.com

 

[cybrdyke]

Thinking about eliminating the switches for shop lighting and putting in occupancy sensors. It's a 4 car garage with shelves dividing it up. Main reason is want to eliminate the switches off the wall to free up some space, have cabinets and shelves that will be covering some of the switches. But would also be nice to not have to turn lights on and off. Only concern is lights shutting off while working if I'm under the car or something and the sensor(assuming mounted on ceiling) doesn't see movement in a certain amount of time.

Just wondering if anyone has done this and the pros and cons of doing this. Right now there is 2 circuits for lighting, one in each half of the 4 car garage. I will be putting new LED lights in at some point so can start fresh with whatever I decide to do.

Good quality sensors placed in a well thought out manner wont turn off while you're in the space. Most of the anecdotal stories you hear are about PIR sensors. These are the type that need to "see" you. Although you can set the ON time on them to several hours, they still might not be a good choice for you. Ultrasonic sensors or microwave sensors would be a much better choice. Microwaves are the best. They dont need to "see" you to know that you're there. There are sensors that have both systems, PIR and Ultrasonic, that work together for an even better system. These are commonly called dual-tech sensors.
Also, you can get corner mountings, ceiling mountings and wall mountings for all of these.
Good luck,
CD

 

[signcrafter]

Good quality sensors placed in a well thought out manner wont turn off while you're in the space. Most of the anecdotal stories you hear are about PIR sensors. These are the type that need to "see" you. Although you can set the ON time on them to several hours, they still might not be a good choice for you. Ultrasonic sensors or microwave sensors would be a much better choice. Microwaves are the best. They dont need to "see" you to know that you're there. There are sensors that have both systems, PIR and Ultrasonic, that work together for an even better system. These are commonly called dual-tech sensors.
Also, you can get corner mountings, ceiling mountings and wall mountings for all of these.
Good luck,
CD

Thank you for that info. I think I'm going to try this out and see how I like it. Can always go back to switches if it doesn't work out for whatever reason. I will abandon the current switches and lighting that is in there now, will remove most of the lights and just put a blank plate over the switches.

I will run a new circuit with new lights with just the sensors for now. Just a quick google search for microwave sensors it looks like most are low voltage. So would need a transformer and relay to control the 120V lights I'm assuming. Can you wire multiple sensors to control the whole garage lighting? If I go with all LED lights one circuit should be fine for the whole 4 car garage but will see after I pick out the lights. But can I have 2 or 3 or 4 sensors in various places in the garage ceiling to turn the whole thing on?

 

[Shiftless]

Like many of the previous posters, I too don’t care for occupancy sensors. And like the O.P., I too wanted to build shelves where the light switch was. So I put a box extension over the old light switch box and used conduit to extend out and over to a new box mounted in a hole I cut in the side panel of the new shelf system I built. Here is a pic that I hope shows what I did. It’s very easy to flip the new switch on or off. Although it took some time to put this together, it is now simple to use and no complications with unwanted off switching.

 

[ArcReactorKC]

I didn't read all the responses but I'll say the same thing I say in most of these threads

Make sure you are using a mmWave sensor and not a traditional movement sensor. The mmwave sensor can detect a person not moving where the traditional will time out.

If you aren't interested in building your own automation system I would suggest the aqara ecosystem.

 

[cybrdyke]

Thank you for that info. I think I'm going to try this out and see how I like it. Can always go back to switches if it doesn't work out for whatever reason. I will abandon the current switches and lighting that is in there now, will remove most of the lights and just put a blank plate over the switches.

I will run a new circuit with new lights with just the sensors for now. Just a quick google search for microwave sensors it looks like most are low voltage. So would need a transformer and relay to control the 120V lights I'm assuming. Can you wire multiple sensors to control the whole garage lighting? If I go with all LED lights one circuit should be fine for the whole 4 car garage but will see after I pick out the lights. But can I have 2 or 3 or 4 sensors in various places in the garage ceiling to turn the whole thing on?

Yes you can have multiple sensors on one power pack.
Best order of things is to find your fixtures first. Then we know if you will have 0-10V control or not. Then we can pick sensors.
You may even find fixtures with sensors built right into them.
CD

 

[Zugec]

Yeah, people do it all the time.

Good things - you do not have switches in the way, lights come on as soon as you walk in, super handy with arms full of stuff

Bad things - as you said, sensors can time out if you are under a car or working still.

Best fix, in my opinion, would be multiple sensors (one each side of shelves, or wall-mount in corners) and set a longest timeout. I know that some models would let you override to "always on." If you are redoing the LEDs anyway, it is a good time to plan for that.

 

[jhelrey]

It's one thing to have the lights turn off in a public restroom while taking a ****, it's another thing to have the lights turn off while using a table saw, etc. You'd have to space the occupancy sensors 100% correctly, but if you are under a vehicle, it won't sense you.

 

[Dagny]

Love it when I drive in at night hate it when I'm making a plenum in the loft.

 

[walta]

I have one in the garage It is the radio type it always sees you before you open the door that is great.

The sensor runs one if the three 4 foot LEDs in the garage the other 2 are on a switch. What is bad is the day night sensor. Sometimes I want the light on when it is day light but mostly there is no need for lights in the day time. The other thing is if I walk with in 6 feet of the garage door to go the restroom 90% of the time I will trip garage lights sensor. This thing will see you thru the walls, doors, windows, ceiling and floors. I could likely tweak the setting and make things better but I have not been motivated to climb the ladder and take out the screws and change the setting.

Working for hours in a room with sensor lights is irritating but passing thru one for a few seconds is great.

Walta

 

[nadogail]

One place I taught at had mechanical timer switches, you could crank them to 3 hours maximum. If you happened to forget to add more time they would shut off the lights and A/C

 

[PCustoms]

It's one thing to have the lights turn off in a public restroom while taking a ****

Years back I got stuck on off shifts for support on a line startup. the schedule changes really messed my diet and "schedule" up. Nonone else in the offices, anytime I went to the bathroom the lights would shut off on me