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Odd question about rotating tires

lakeroadster

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I believe this is one of those "idealistic theory" discussions.

If the tires all have acceptable tread ( Lincoln’s head and the edge of the penny ) and they are all the same size tires, it doesn't matter where the new tires go.

Folks are overthinking this one.
 
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BonzoHansen

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OMG we just had a thread on the oversteer/understeer things. I still say back if there is a real difference is condition.

OP if your tires only had 12k on them, just rotate them as normal and forget it. Don't over think it
 

2ndGearRubber

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The purveyors of one-size-fits-all knowledge have decreed that all oversteering conditions are unrecoverable, always, every time.

-HF




How does one rein in an oversteering fwd car? Just curious as to your knowledge of the subject.

Bonus points if you rein in a fwd car after abrupt lift-off oversteer.



It's significantly harder than bring a RWD car with a limited slip back in line.
 
OP
R

Ruahrc

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Wow quite a lot of responses and lively discussion here, thanks for the input!

I can now at least see the train of logic in putting best condition tires on the rear. But here's my follow-up: If you believe that worst condition tires should go on the front always, then surely you must never rotate your tires ever, no? Assuming (for FWD at least) that front tires wear more quickly than rear tires, and that you are starting with fresh 4 tires, the front tires will ALWAYS be more worn than the rears, and therefore you should never rotate them and reverse that condition. Furthermore, the difference between wear/performance will only exaggerate over time making it even more important to never rotate until you need to replace the fronts. Otherwise, this logic totally falls apart unless you only replace your tires in pairs and never ever rotate them. However, clearly tire manufacturers recommend (and even require, for warranty) regular tire rotation, so there is some kind of break down in the logic.

To me, the purpose of rotating the tires is to even the wear across all 4 tires, and get maximum life out of all 4 before replacing all 4 in a set. By rotating at a certain frequency (usually 5k-10k miles?) you are always in a condition where the fronts and rears are basically at the same wear/performance level, and these concerns of bald tires in the rear and good tires in the front causing handling concerns never really enters into the equation.

With this in mind, I am going to go ahead and rotate the new tires to be up front. I looked at my records, and the "old" pair of tires are around 3 yrs old and just under 20k miles. Not that much for a tire with something like 640 wear index and 80,000 mile warranty (Michelin Primacy MXV4). I looked at the tread and there is no problem at all. They are not close to bald, in fact arguably they have just as much tread as the new tires. (The Michelin Primacy MX4 have a little deeper tread new than the Premier A/S which is what I got as replacements since the Primacy are discontinued).

In this case I do not believe there is a major difference in tire performance since the old set are still relatively new. I will put the new tires up front to get them to wear faster and just rotate as normal moving forward, maybe going a little extra before I rotate again. Down the road when the old pair is ready to be replaced, I will just get all 4 new tires and sync everything up again.

Probably I will drive around with the tires as-is for a couple of weeks, and then rotate and see if I notice any difference.
 
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ajchien

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I know I'm now located in California, so I would prefer to Understeer rather than oversteer. Thus, my new tires get put on by the shop on the rear, but eventually they get rotated onto the fronts.

However, I lived the majority of my life in Michigan. I don't think going into oversteer is the problem. It's the lack of any traction at all on ice that is the problem. And when that happens, you're at the mercy of the road ... Until ... if your front tires find some fraction of a second of traction to help you get corrected ... So you're not headed into the ditch, but now on your continued slide down the road until you finally hit the much improved traction known as thankfully! ... snow.
 

taumac

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I always knew best tires go on steering axle whether it been FWD or RWD. I always had FWD vehicles go through front tires quicker than rears so I always put newest on front. I know our trucks at work they ALWAYS put best tires on the front.
 
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383 240z

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I use "best on the steering axle" theory for this fact only. Class A trucks aren't allowed to run recaps on the steering axle, only on the drive axles.

However the understeer/oversteer argument tells me one thing, if the non-replaced tires are so worn, that they cant grip the road properly, REPLACE THEM!!!
 

taumac

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I use "best on the steering axle" theory for this fact only. Class A trucks aren't allowed to run recaps on the steering axle, only on the drive axles.

However the understeer/oversteer argument tells me one thing, if the non-replaced tires are so worn, that they cant grip the road properly, REPLACE THEM!!!

Yep you are correct. Actually, that was a DOT rule for all vehicles. Only virgin tires on steering axle but all others could have worn virgin from front or recaps.
 

sucking chest wound

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Salem, Mass
I use "best on the steering axle" theory for this fact only. Class A trucks aren't allowed to run recaps on the steering axle, only on the drive axles.

I know zero about heavy trucks but I wonder to what extent the delamination of a retread is far more dangerous should it occur on the steering axle versus a drive axle.

In other words, kind of an apples and oranges thing versus passenger cars.
 

White 99

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Has anyone ever found a tire manufacturer that recommends anything other than the new ones on the rear?
 

rice rocket

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The purveyors of one-size-fits-all knowledge have decreed that all oversteering conditions are unrecoverable, always, every time.

-HF

Pretty much.

I'd say 99% of drivers would not know what to do, and of the 1% who would know what to do, more than half would do the wrong thing instinctively.
 
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