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Odd size socket--57/64

Brad54

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What the hell would you ever need a 57/64 deep well socket for?!
(and don't say "A 57/64 nut or bolt! :lol_hitti )

It's a Herbrand, and came from a widow's tool assortment I'm going through to help her sell. It's in perfect shape, but such an odd size I can't see it ever being used.

At least 11/32 wrenches are used on starter leads for vintage GM and Mopars!

Anyone else ever see one this size?

-Brad
 
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neophyte

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57/64" is .891 inches, or 22.62mm., or 63 points (72nds of an inch).

Closest British size is 1/2W; 9/16BSF at 23.37mm. or .920"

From alloy-artifacts. Information from the description of the Herbrand DS-28B 1/2-Drive Deep Socket.

http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/herbrand-van-chrome-p3.html

"The odd 57/64 size was needed for certain spark plugs, and is one of the few cases of 64ths sizing in sockets."
 

cmandp

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The one size Hanson trays don't have. :lol_hitti

I think I would give her a couple bucks for it just because it's interesting.
 

Private Lugnutz

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"...is one of the few cases of 64ths sizing in sockets."

Crazy era. This is a little different, but a 1/2-drive 47/64ths drag link bit socket was issued to every motor vehicle mechanic in the Army in WW2. The other two bits in the 3-bit set were 15/16 and 1-3/16. I have a set from Walden-Worcester. Other suppliers were Herbrand, New Britain, OTC, D-I, and Thorsen.
 

Scotsman1886

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I assumed the strange sizes were from that time before hardware was standardized.
It could be marketing as well. Make a 6 piece set 9 piece with oddball sizes.
 
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Brad54

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57/64" is .891 inches, or 22.62mm., or 63 points (72nds of an inch).

Closest British size is 1/2W; 9/16BSF at 23.37mm. or .920"

From alloy-artifacts. Information from the description of the Herbrand DS-28B 1/2-Drive Deep Socket.

http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/herbrand-van-chrome-p3.html

"The odd 57/64 size was needed for certain spark plugs, and is one of the few cases of 64ths sizing in sockets."

Very cool--I didn't even think to go to Alloy Artifacts.
According to the site, descriptions, etc., this one is from '44-'45. It's actually in near-mint condition.
I'm certain the old guy had it because he was into vintage vehicles, including Stutz fire trucks, among other oddities.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this socket fits Stutz spark plugs.

-Brad
 

ken w.

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Well,now in the rare chance you have to remove that odd size spark plug,YOU will have that socket and all the bragging rights to go along with it.
 

Murphy4570

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I want to see the sparkplug that takes a 57/64" socket. Seriously. That must be a HUGE sparkplug.


Give me one and I'll go around telling people it is a sparkplug for diesel engines, and get them to believe me!!! LOL
 

Milton Shaw

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When I was a kid I do remember a diesel with sparkplugs. It was an earthgrader that had a gas engine to start the diesel. You could see the difference as they started it with white smoke from the gas and then eventually black smoke from the diesel after it started. This was in the early 50's so that has been a while.
 

TwoInch

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I want to see the sparkplug that takes a 57/64" socket. Seriously. That must be a HUGE sparkplug.


Give me one and I'll go around telling people it is a sparkplug for diesel engines, and get them to believe me!!! LOL
its only a hair larger than the 13/16" plug socket you probably have in your box
 

Bruce Lancaster

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There are much larger common plugs, like '28-32 Ford. 7/8 threads, hex considerably bigger on the original style plugs. Don't have one here at work, but I think about 1 1/8".
 

Private Lugnutz

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There are much larger common plugs, like '28-32 Ford. 7/8 threads, hex considerably bigger on the original style plugs. Don't have one here at work, but I think about 1 1/8".

Spot on, Bruce.

Here is a BLACKHAWK 136 (1-1/8") spark plug socket from a 1930 QD socket set.
Bhawk_15.jpg

Bhawk_6.jpg
 

Bruce Lancaster

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Another minor point of data...I have here a '32 Ford parts catalog; in it I find a service wrench made for the cylinder head nuts listed at 45/64 (!). Ford head nuts are 11/16, though I've never actually measured, and all my life I have worked on them with sockets labeled 11/16, or 44/64. Perhaps this is simple a specification for the exact degree of ease in the fit of the tool?
 
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Brad54

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The one I found was in almost perfect condition.

That looks EXACTLY like the one I have.
Herbrand must have had a hell of a plating system, because they look new after rolling around in tool boxes for nearly 70 years!

-Brad
 
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hefty lefty

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When I was a kid I do remember a diesel with sparkplugs. It was an earthgrader that had a gas engine to start the diesel. You could see the difference as they started it with white smoke from the gas and then eventually black smoke from the diesel after it started. This was in the early 50's so that has been a while.

There were International Harvester diesels that had a secondary chamber and valve and a complete gas ignition and intake system. A valve opened dropping the compression ratio and closing the diesel intake and the engine started on gas with a spark plug. When going over nicely, the valve was closed drastically raising the compression ratio and cutting off the gas/air mixture, the diesel intake opened up and fuel was injected into the warmed up diesel cylinder. it was a Rube Goldberg solution to avoid having a separate smaller "pony motor" like on John Deere and Caterpillar. A few big Cats even had TWO pony motors: the tiny one started the bigger one that started the diesel.

There was also a type of "semi-diesel" engine called a Waukesha Hesselman that had both a spark plug ignition and injection pump. They required a huge and proprietary plug too. The would burn any kind of fuel but were fussy and easy for drivers to tear up. And, they had a propensity to smoke badly.
 

larry_g

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When I was a kid I do remember a diesel with sparkplugs. It was an earthgrader that had a gas engine to start the diesel. You could see the difference as they started it with white smoke from the gas and then eventually black smoke from the diesel after it started. This was in the early 50's so that has been a while.

If you look in my build thread you will see my TD-6 that has that engine in it. I know the -9 and -14 also had the gas start system and maybe some of the others. It was a common engine used in many applications mobile and stationary. There are a few u-tube flicks showing the starting procedure.

lg
no neat sig line
 

Piles

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There were International Harvester diesels that had a secondary chamber and valve and a complete gas ignition and intake system. A valve opened dropping the compression ratio and closing the diesel intake and the engine started on gas with a spark plug. When going over nicely, the valve was closed drastically raising the compression ratio and cutting off the gas/air mixture, the diesel intake opened up and fuel was injected into the warmed up diesel cylinder. it was a Rube Goldberg solution to avoid having a separate smaller "pony motor" like on John Deere and Caterpillar. A few big Cats even had TWO pony motors: the tiny one started the bigger one that started the diesel.

There was also a type of "semi-diesel" engine called a Waukesha Hesselman that had both a spark plug ignition and injection pump. They required a huge and proprietary plug too. The would burn any kind of fuel but were fussy and easy for drivers to tear up. And, they had a propensity to smoke badly.
Dammit. I learned about these engines about a month ago and when I read the post you replied to I was all ready to make myself look smart.

Anyways nice write up. Ever do any work on those old IH's? How was that system anyways? I have talked to a few old timers and they couldn't tell me if it was a decent set up or not.
 

hefty lefty

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Dammit. I learned about these engines about a month ago and when I read the post you replied to I was all ready to make myself look smart.

Anyways nice write up. Ever do any work on those old IH's? How was that system anyways? I have talked to a few old timers and they couldn't tell me if it was a decent set up or not.

Never touched one. Saw one fire up when I was younger in a still working dozer and forty years later at a tractor show saw one in a tractor not running.

Someone told me that most were converted with a new top end to straight diesel when better starter motors came out but that might not be true. Maybe they just repowered them. They were rare by the mid-70s in any case and when I asked oldtimers about them as a kid they'd just shake their head-as in, "yeah, they were around but thank God they aren't any more". A lot of diesel guys even told me there was no such thing but I knew better.
 

Piles

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Never touched one. Saw one fire up when I was younger in a still working dozer and forty years later at a tractor show saw one in a tractor not running.

Someone told me that most were converted with a new top end to straight diesel when better starter motors came out but that might not be true. Maybe they just repowered them. They were rare by the mid-70s in any case and when I asked oldtimers about them as a kid they'd just shake their head-as in, "yeah, they were around but thank God they aren't any more". A lot of diesel guys even told me there was no such thing but I knew better.

LOL same happened to me, with the guys saying it didn't exist.

I could see how it would be finnicky, but damn if that ain't some cool engineering for say 1940's?
 

gorilla

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I worked with a old gentleman many years ago who had some really bad burn scars. I asked him what had happened to him and he told me about an explosion on one of those internationals you guys are talking about. I don't remember what caused the explosion as it was about 40 years ago.
 

larry_g

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Never touched one. Saw one fire up when I was younger in a still working dozer and forty years later at a tractor show saw one in a tractor not running.

Someone told me that most were converted with a new top end to straight diesel when better starter motors came out but that might not be true. Maybe they just repowered them. They were rare by the mid-70s in any case and when I asked oldtimers about them as a kid they'd just shake their head-as in, "yeah, they were around but thank God they aren't any more". A lot of diesel guys even told me there was no such thing but I knew better.

The gas start diesels in the small crawlers were phased out ~1959 in favor of the direct start diesel. I've never heard of the engine being converted with a different head. One of the things that hurt the IH engine was it had a propensity for cracking the head if it was not cooled properly before shut down. Here is a short story on the TD-24 which had 1091 ci engine. http://www.contrafedpublishing.co.n...l+2009/The+International+TD-24+Harvester.html

Mine in the TD-6 is a whopping 248ci

lg
no neat sig line
 

Bruce Lancaster

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"Reminds me of Snap On's 4/8" drive ratchet set..."
If you think those are rare, try looking for the wartime 32/64th ones!
 

RedVise

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pulled this one up from way back !!

Getting ready to sell some Firestone items and took a closer look at the sockets and I find a 57/64" deep socket in this Firestone Spark Plug Socket Wrench Set. NEVER seen one of these before !

Here's whats included in the set : 9/16 11/16 57/64 15/16 1 1 1/8
I cant say whether these are the group of original sockets but I guess it made sense to someone back then.
 

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RedVise

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OK - Looking these over a little closer and I find the 2 smallest sockets are not sized for the 1/2" breaker bar.

See pic showing 9/16 5/8 and 11/16 3/4 marked sockets. Both ends of socket are sized for bolts.
Not sure why that is.

WAG >>> they made the sockets to use both ends to give the buyer more sizes.
And expected the users to use the Tommy bar and breaker bar to break loose the bolt... ??????
And maybe thats why the 9/16 5/8 socket is broken.... ?????
 

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Ricky Joe

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pulled this one up from way back !!

Getting ready to sell some Firestone items and took a closer look at the sockets and I find a 57/64" deep socket in this Firestone Spark Plug Socket Wrench Set. NEVER seen one of these before !

Here's whats included in the set : 9/16 11/16 57/64 15/16 1 1 1/8
I cant say whether these are the group of original sockets but I guess it made sense to someone back then.
They were made for Firestone by Herbrand.
 

Retired dozer fixer

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I want to see the sparkplug that takes a 57/64" socket. Seriously. That must be a HUGE sparkplug.


Give me one and I'll go around telling people it is a sparkplug for diesel engines, and get them to believe me!!! LOL
International Harvester made a gas start diesel engine for a while in the 50’s for tractors and construction equipment. Started on gas and switched to diesel.
 

geojag

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One of those things that if you need one, you need one. Could you imagine the frustration if you ran across a 57/64 fastener and didn't have that socket?
 

Ricky Joe

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International Harvester made a gas start diesel engine for a while in the 50’s for tractors and construction equipment. Started on gas and switched to diesel.
That particular socket was made for 1930s Buicks. Snap-on made a special socket for them, also, but sized at 7/8”. A thin wall Bonney 7/8” works, also. If you want a large spark plug, Ford was 1-1/16” on the Model T.
 

MarkH

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Never say never without knowing history. I usually like to study it before doing any new project.

From the ag machines we had going back to around 1930.
Old Monarch or Allis Chalmers. Semi - Diesel with plugs. Others out there but we did not have them.

International Anything with D in the second letter of the model. ie WD, MD, TD had a diesel. We got our first in 1938 when the second generation came out as a TD-14. Had plugs and a carb on one side of the engine and the diesel injectors and pump on the other side. We had MDs, WD-9s, TD-9s, TD-14s and T-18's. They also could be cranked if the battery was dead. The 18s where huge 6 cylinder models. The others were 4 cylinders. My uncle who was about 100 lbs taught me how to crank an 18.

John Deere and Cat had pony engines that were gas. They worked but did not start as well as the internationals when cold. You cussed on the D-4s and D6s trying to get them going.

We did not have them but I am sure Buda and Waukesha had some diesels with plugs too.

I once got a comment from an engineer working on a hydrogen engine it ran but was destructively rough. I looked at him and said have you tried injecting water. He looked at me like at me like I had 7 heads. I said ag engines have been doing that since the days of Hart-Parr. Some old fighter engines did it too. He did get it to run right a couple years later with a water injector. Knowing about how Hart Parr went to a water injector after a farmer spilled liquid that ran into his engine found it ran better ran than damaging it. It is easier doing things knowing history.
 

MarkH

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Forgot to say we have one tray with all of the odd size sockets. You never know when you will use them.
 

cannuck

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Give me one and I'll go around telling people it is a sparkplug for diesel engines, and get them to believe me!!! LOL
Hate to rain on your parade, but some diesels DO use spark plugs.
Here is an SAE paper: https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2019-24-0027/

long before that, there were several farm tractors and heavy equipment engines that started on gasoline and switched to diesel after they warmed up. They used spark ignition for the gasoline warmup time.
 
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