Odd way to wire up some outlets

[mattblast]

I’m visiting my parents in Wynnewood PA and we stopped by a local bagel place to grab breakfast this morning.

They recently added some convenience outlets under the bench seats to charge up. But to do so they wired one power strip into another. You can see 3 here but there’s a 4th outside the photo.



I’m not sure about PA, but in NJ this would be a fire code violation and the inspector would make us correct this in order to pass.

The workman ship is also very sloppy. Looks like the staff or owner wired it up. No professional electrician would do this.

 

[alfredeneuman]

They're listed as "Relocatable Power Taps" by UL, and the listing says they must be plugged into a permanent outlet. (No daisy chaining).
This would violate NEC Article 110.3 (B) because it isn't installed consistent with the manufacturer's "listing and labeling" requirements.

 

[allinon72]

Besides the obvious safety issues, does this place not care about aesthetics?

 

[Heap64]

99% sure restaurant owner thought this was a good idea.

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[AntonLargiader]

From the looks of it, the recep is mounted in the base of that bench. It would probably be super easy to install actual receps there.

 

[mattblast]

At first I didn’t even notice them. My parents pointed out the benefit of the new outlets for charging. It’s in the kick space below each bench and each one is plugged into the next. They even have on/off switches. It’s one thing to install like this in your home but this has no place in a commercial location.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Who knows if it violates local code.

It for sure without a doubt violates NEC code.

 

[Norcal]

If the Fire Marshall inspects local businesses it will be called out on their report & have to be corrected.

 

[mattblast]

Should I call the business to let them know or better to call the township to inspect it? If I only tell owner he may ignore it then if I later call the township he will know it’s me that called.

I don’t want him to get in trouble but want it to be fixed.

 

[The Cobbler]

From the looks of it, the recep is mounted in the base of that bench. It would probably be super easy to install actual receps there.

wiremold would have been a better option .
obviously done to satisfy a need with little attention to aesthetics, etc.
cost was cheaper than anything else, that's probably the driving force.

 

[GTO]

Should I call the business to let them know or better to call the township to inspect it? If I only tell owner he may ignore it then if I later call the township he will know it’s me that called.

I don’t want him to get in trouble but want it to be fixed.

I would MYOB....
I would not get involved.
Just my .02

 

[JRC3]

Not to mention the tripping hazzard of it all.
______________________________________
I sub every once in a while throwing darts on a league for a friend and his brother and his friends. We were at their homebase pub one night and I noticed they had daisied like this on the dart machines. The funny part is that one of the guys on the team is a FT firefighter who also does inspections. I think it pissed him off a little that he never noticed it before. He informally had a talk with the management.

 

[ard]

I ... want it to be fixed.

Lol

Mind your own business. Nobody made you code inspector

This isn't a significant 'loss of life' safety issue. Exit doors from that room to the exterior? Move on.

If you must, call the owner/manager: "As a favor, you should know..."

 

[JRC3]

This isn't a significant 'loss of life' safety issue.

Sure it is. One life is significant. One! Potential electrocution for starters. Not sure how grounded a person would be if a drink were spilled on it. And I'm not going to debate it, nor would an inspector. Potential fire too. Imagine how loose those outlet slots will become after being kicked and bumped all day for weeks on end.

Not to mention kids playing around it. Or something like a metal cane or walker or who knows what coming into contact of a damage plug, cord, receptacle or whatever.


This is completely unacceptable for many reasons.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I’m visiting my parents in Wynnewood PA and we stopped by a local bagel place to grab breakfast this morning.

They recently added some convenience outlets under the bench seats to charge up. But to do so they wired one power strip into another. You can see 3 here but there’s a 4th outside the photo.



I’m not sure about PA, but in NJ this would be a fire code violation and the inspector would make us correct this in order to pass.

Not compliant at all. Relocatable power taps are not intended as a substitute for fixed wiring and securing them to a fixed surface is a violation in itself.

Shoddy at best.

Tommy

 

[steve308]

Hopefully the food is better than the wiring.

 

[rlitman]

...Relocatable power taps are not intended as a substitute for fixed wiring and securing them to a fixed surface is a violation in itself....

So why do they come with keyholes or ears meant to be screwed down?

 

[JRC3]

So why do they come with keyholes or ears meant to be screwed down?

Well, it certainly wasn't done to daisy 3 in a row.

 

[driftpin]

"Comply with code."

Yes, I am a Life Safety Code Inspector. It is a life safety threat, and I'm not a good enough fortune teller to see when it's going to cause the problem. Easy to resolve, remove them. If they aren't removed in 24 hours, you get a citation. Meanwhile, here is your notice of violation.

Anonymous complaints are actionable.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Lol

Mind your own business. Nobody made you code inspector

This isn't a significant 'loss of life' safety issue. Exit doors from that room to the exterior? Move on.

If you must, call the owner/manager as a favor...

Actually it is.

There have been numerous fires caused by relocatable power taps daisy chained together.

This is just the reason why it’s against code

 

[ard]

Oh, I agree it isnt code and isnt safe....

Perhaps the term 'significant' in my comment was wrong...immediate? Imminent? Clear and present, incipient danger?

But maybe take a step back from arguing about my characterization....

Maybe the more appropriate question for all of us 'code knowledgeable' is this:

Where do we all draw the line at become self-deputized building inspectors out to protect the world?

Im serious.

Is this the kind of issue that one needs to call the cops, to protect life?

Call the mayor? To protect life?

Call the building department, or drive there in person?



I mean I walk into businesses all the time and see tons of 'violations'. Egress. Wiring. OSHA.

If 'even one life' is to be saved, are all of us to be ratting out every business we visit?

(And yes, this has a provocative tone, but where do we draw a line?)

 

[JRC3]

Where do we all draw the line at become self-deputized building inspectors out to protect the world?

Im serious.

Is this the kind of issue that one needs to call the cops, to protect life?

Call the mayor? To protect life?

Call the building department, or drive there in person?

Those sure are extreme. Instead of proposing extreme solutions to save face, maybe some realistic suggestions might be more appropriate. Talk to the mgr/owner. Or suggest something on their FB, website or whatever social media they use. Drop an email to the local health department or fire inspector if all else fails. After any of those, it's off your shoulders I guess.

 

[alfredeneuman]

So why do they come with keyholes or ears meant to be screwed down?

They come with keyholes to slip over the head of a screw. Not meant to be screwed down.
I haven't seen any with ears. Could you post a link to one?

EDIT: The UL standard for this is UL 1363
1 Scope
1.1 These requirements cover indoor use cord and plug connected, relocatable power taps (RPT) rated 250 V AC or less and 20 Amperes or less. A RPT may include an integral Class 2 power supply with an integral lead and/or connector(s) output. In accordance with the National Electric Code, NFPA 70, RPT are for use as a movable power supply connection for cord and plug connected electrical utilization equipment and shall not serve as fixed wiring of a structure or of fixed furnishings, such as but not limited to applications in permanent countertops of kitchens and bathrooms.

(If they are screwed down they are fixed in place)

 

[Oggy]

If it bothers you that much, talk to the owner, and advise him of the perils. If he doesn't fix it, don't be a patron at his establishment.

I'd leave it at that.

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[ard]

Those sure are extreme. Instead of proposing extreme solutions to save face, maybe some realistic suggestions might be more appropriate. Talk to the mgr/owner. .

lol

I dont need to save face.

You felt compelled to T off on my comment, and I guess your excitement to take the high road ("One life is significant. One! Potential electrocution for starters. " ...even an exclamation point!!!...) caused you to miss my 'realistic suggestion' to call the owner. Which you then repeated as your advice.

Why are people so weird in the electrical section?

My discussion point for those that are self-appointed inspectors remains: when do you NOT call in violations? I wouldnt for this one, but seems you all would.

 

[SALIV8]

Ive never seen that before. And looks pretty low class at that not considering the safety issue. Lol

 

[mike93lx]

Are you worried someone will bring in their space heater and plug into the last strop?

It is for Cell phones and laptops. MYOB

 

[condition001]

This reminds me of the Christmas light wiring in National Lampoons...[emoji15]


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[couch67]

As an Australian buddy said many times, 'those stick out like dog's balls'...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Are you worried someone will bring in their space heater and plug into the last strop?

It is for Cell phones and laptops. MYOB

Doesnt matter what its for.

Theres a reason its a code violation.

Many fires have been caused by daisy chained relocatable taps.

 

[mike93lx]

Doesnt matter what its for.

Theres a reason its a code violation.

Many fires have been caused by daisy chained relocatable taps.

Nevermind. Not arguing about this

 

[rlitman]

...Many fires have been caused by daisy chained relocatable taps.

This, I have to take exception to.

Both the NFPA/NEC and NRTL/UL have taken up this issue in their own ways. UL's answer is scientifically correct (because of Kirchoff's law). Trying to impose an NEC stance on this is insane.

These are not extension cords, and there is no NEC code violation in daisy chaining extension cords. It would be an OSHA violation, but that's a different issue. Daisy chaining modern power strips is not inherently dangerous, because all power strips are now required to have over-current protection (that's UL's correct answer to the problem), generally in the form of an internal circuit breaker.

The only fires I am familiar with that have been caused specifically by daisy chained cords, have been caused by the thermal overloading of zip-cord extension cords (in particular, the ones with multi-tap ends, or ones that have multi-tap ends plugged into them). But this is (mostly, since people keep all sorts of ancient **** in their attics) a thing of the past, not only because LED lighting has greatly reduced holiday lighting currents, but also because these cheapest of zip cords now all have fused over-current protection built into the multi-tap head.

Screwing down a power strip does NOT inherently make it dangerous (as has been implied above). The insanity in this thread just makes me sick.

 

[JRC3]

I bet the proprietor's insurance company wouldn't bee so carefree on the matter.

I'm about to go to the chiropractor this morning and something bothers me about their reception area. This pic is from Google taken in Oct. I just don't like the aesthetics of it. To me it's a chocking hazard for anyone with children, or a trip hazard for someone with a cane or something. That's a anti theft cable, not sure why it's so long.

 

[b-boy]

I bet the proprietor's insurance company wouldn't bee so carefree on the matter.

I'm about to go to the chiropractor this morning and something bothers me about their reception area. This pic is from Google taken in Oct. I just don't like the aesthetics of it. To me it's a chocking hazard for anyone with children, or a trip hazard for someone with a cane or something. That's a anti theft cable, not sure why it's so long.

Who's going to steal a cheap tablet out of a Dr's office?

 

[driftpin]

Who's going to steal a cheap tablet out of a Dr's office?

"Yo, dawg, it's right there on the counter, easy-in, easy-out, grab & run, no guards, no security vestibule, I ain't seen no security cameras, man, they're practically givin' it to you! Our usual fence said it's worth $30 to him, go hit-up that cracker! I'll be in da car."

Never underestimate a criminal's motivation. If you do, you'll become a victim. A tragic local event: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-...-truck-florida-leads-multiple-deaths-n1096871

 

[JRC3]

Who's going to steal a cheap tablet out of a Dr's office?

I just snapped a pic while sitting in the reception area. Look at what the cable is fastened with. LOL Looks like a plastic cable bracket/strap. I could break that thing with a good fart.

This place is neat and orderly everywhere else. Clean reception area, nice big rear waiting area, 3 or 4 exam rooms, excellent staff...But those cables are all I can think about.

 

[Falcon67]

Dang, I could have saved huge bucks on romex had I thought of this. 4 or 5 of those 4' HF power strips would have done one whole wall.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Dang, I could have saved huge bucks on romex had I thought of this. 4 or 5 of those 4' HF power strips would have done one whole wall.

Yup! Would have put an outlet every 4 feet just like we all want to do in our garages!

Jim

 

[alfredeneuman]

Screwing down a power strip does NOT inherently make it dangerous (as has been implied above).

I never implied anything of the sort.
I said it violated the UL listing requirements, which it does.

 

[rlitman]

I never implied anything of the sort.
I said it violated the UL listing requirements, which it does.

Again, then why do many UL Listed power strips come with accommodations to be screwed down?

If it doesn't have a keyhole on the back, or mounting ears, then the ones with extruded aluminum bodies come with snap on mounting clips.

Or maybe something more exotic, like clamps (or ground stakes):

Nothing is violated by mounting a power strip.