off grid garage/workshop

[BigDaveZJ]

In the next 5 years or so I will be starting construction on an off grid garage/workshop. Power will be supplied by a solar system with a back up propane generator. Size is basically as big as I want it to be, it's going on a 10 acre lot. I started planning out a 30x40 building and quickly ran out of room. We are currently building a log home on the land that we hope to move to full time in 5ish years.

Here's what I'm wanting in the shop, and am looking for advice on what tools and supplies to keep on hand. The closest hardware store is 45 minutes away, in good weather, and our land is in the mountains in CO.

- dedicated automotive workshop and steel fabrication

I currently have a 24x28 detached garage that we built a few years ago, the build is documented here but most of the pictures are broken. I currently can do just about anything I need to from an automotive standpoint. I will add at least one lift, and additional metal fab tools like a plasma cutter and tube bender. I already have a 175 amp MIG machine, air tools, and just about all of the hand tools I've ever needed. I'd like to store several cars in here as well. The house has a 2 car attached garage, but its on the smaller side and will probably house 1 car and a UTV, leaving several Jeeps and at least one large pickup (F350 as of now) to be stored in the shop.

- wood shop

This is where I think I have the most room for improvement. My current wood set up is a small Ryobi drill press, a craftsman table saw and router built into a 4x8 table, and a Jet bandsaw. Given that it's at least a 90 minute roundtrip drive to anywhere, I need to be able to either store or make a lot of different items. In my mind the wood shop is separate from the other areas for dust mitigation. I'd want a substantial amount of plywood and lumber on hand to perform various projects or repairs around the shop and home.

- RV storage

I want an enclosed storage area to hold a large 5th wheel or Super C motorhome, so I'm thinking 12'x50' just for that.

- office

A big portion of this is predicated on me being able to work remotely, so I'd want a portion of this building to be office space as my wife will likely be using the office space in the house. Don't need much there, just a small room for me to work in and potentially meet clients as well.


Anyone built something similar? Probably go steel building. Looking for ideas on what tools you would have in a shop like this, layouts, learning from when you did something similar, basically any advice you can throw my way.

Thanks!

 

[Captain Spaulding]

Two thoughts.

Diesel fuel has more energy than gasoline or propane. A propane generator uses a large volume of fuel. If you can haul or arrange delivery, don’t dismiss a Diesel unit. There are dozens of Amish woodworking shops near where I grew up, and they almost all use Diesel generators for electricity. For backup use, propane is a great choice, but for routine use I prefer Diesel.

Typical RVs are 8 or 8-1/2’ wide on the road with slides that add 5 or 6’ to the width. Some floor plans aren’t accessible with slides in, so if you have too narrow of a space you may have to pull it outside to pack for a trip or perform maintenance. I built a dedicated 18’x40’ barn for mine, and would make it wider if I did it again. I can offset to one side and still squeeze past the slide on one side. But centered i can’t get by on either side. Crawling under the slide is not fun!

For what it’s worth!

 

[kwb]

You are 45min from a hardware store and customers are going to come to you?

I suggest you standardize your hardware that you use for projects and stock up. For me I try to stick to 1/4, 1/2, 5/8. Not everything will fall in those buckets for everyone but that is one way for me to avoid running to town frequently.

If you are going to have one open shop space then the allocation for RV is okay, if that is a dedicated walled off bay - too small. Need a 12'w door just to go in and out easy.

Diesel generator - I have a decent sized gas unit for the house. I have had 2 power hungry boats with diesel. They do so much better to handle surges than gas. Not as light to move around, but for what you are doing being basically stationary isn't a big deal.

Size - I think you are going to be 50x60 or bigger to do what you want and be up in the mountains where snow is probably a way of life for 4+ months.

 

[dcg9381]

I've got a 5th wheel in a 15' lean-to structure off my main shop. I have to park the RV very close to the building to be able to fully extend the slides. This could have been mitigated if I had chosen to space the exterior posts around the slides, but otherwise I'd recommend 20' pad... If the pad is stand alone and doesn't create a problem for foot traffic, 15' might be enough.

A lot of my shop is shelving.... I essentially double stacked some heavy duty load bearing shelves. I have lots of boxes of supplies - PVC for instance. I suspect you'll be needing the same sort of thing - your own hardware store, especially if getting to a supply store is a long trip. A shipping container is a good alternative in some cases for things you don't need very often.

I have a big selection of pluming supplies, PVC, PEX, associated tools. As well as a pretty good selection of electrical supplies on hand. Some steel selection and I've started to pay attention to keeping framing materials, as they've gotten expensive.


How are you doing water supply? How does your solar interact with the generator?

 

[BigDaveZJ]

Hadn't thought about the slides on the RV, definitely a good point. Our current 5th wheel only has one slide so it's not too bad and we do usually need to open it up to pack it for trips. Pulling it out to pack wouldn't be a huge ordeal, but definitely easier to do it inside.

LP is quite common up there, and with it just being a backup the LP also has a longer shelf life. The house will also be run off an LP tank (furnace, stove, water heater, dryer, etc). I would also be concerned with the diesel gelling in the winter, a couple weeks ago it was -15*F up there. LP seems to be okay until about -40*F. I will likely still store some diesel up there for my truck though too.

 

[BigDaveZJ]

How are you doing water supply? How does your solar interact with the generator?

Water will be from a well, the pump will be powered by the solar system on the house. The solar will charge a battery bank, and if that gets low the genny will kick in. We get a LOT of sun up, even in the winter, so the solar aspect should work well. Haven't decided on if I want water in the shop or not yet. A flush toilet would be nice, but then I'd have to trench back to the septic as well, and that will be a couple hundred feet away through very rocky terrain.

And you're exactly right on me basically wanting my own hardware store up there. In my current shop I have 2 of the 8' Gladiator shelving units and they're bursting at the seams. Most of it is fluids and parts for my Jeeps, with a few tools, but I will need a LOT more shelving up there. Will also probably use some of the shop space for food storage too as that's limited (for us anyways) in the actual house.

 

[tmshort]

I’m gonna tag onto this for ideas, my brother and I are planning on building a shop on our 20 acres outside of Buena Vista. We’re totally off grid, too.

If you’re running a compressor, welder, etc you will need one heck of a solar / battery system. We have a small one on the cabin (48V, 8x6V Rolls batteries -> inverter) and it will mostly run the cabin but when we fire up power tools the genny is coming on...

 

[BigDaveZJ]

I’m gonna tag onto this for ideas, my brother and I are planning on building a shop on our 20 acres outside of Buena Vista. We’re totally off grid, too.

If you’re running a compressor, welder, etc you will need one heck of a solar / battery system. We have a small one on the cabin (48V, 8x6V Rolls batteries -> inverter) and it will mostly run the cabin but when we fire up power tools the genny is coming on...

We're not too far from ya, we're east on 285/24 on the other side of Hartsel by about 10 miles.

I don't expect the solar to run a compressor and welder, I know the genny will have to kick on for those. As it is now though I don't use my compressor all that much, I usually go for the 18v cordless tools. The plan right now for the solar system on the house is 18 315W panels with 16 batteries and a 14 kW generator. I figure we'll do something similar for the shop, might even tie the 2 together somehow so they can pull from each other if needed.

 

[WisJim]

Do your homework on your solar system. What voltage do you plan for the battery set? 16 batteries is meaningless as they come in many sizes. Having lived off-grid with minimal back up generation for over a decade, and with a battery backed up grid tied system for the last 30+ years, I have found that lots of folks don't appreciate the limitations of a battery based off grid system. Best of luck, sounds like something I did over 40 years ago. Technology has made it easier and at the same time more complex.

 

[BigDaveZJ]

Do your homework on your solar system. What voltage do you plan for the battery set? 16 batteries is meaningless as they come in many sizes. Having lived off-grid with minimal back up generation for over a decade, and with a battery backed up grid tied system for the last 30+ years, I have found that lots of folks don't appreciate the limitations of a battery based off grid system. Best of luck, sounds like something I did over 40 years ago. Technology has made it easier and at the same time more complex.

I think these are the batteries, waiting on confirmation: https://www.fullriverbattery.com/product/dc400-6/

 

[walta]

What is the biggest electric motor you will run maybe the air compressor? Is blasting likely to happen?

If you want a 15 HP electric compressor seems almost impossible off grid.

I doubt a big welder will play nicely with the inverters and or the generators. Consider using engine powered units for the big loads.

Walta

 

[BigDaveZJ]

Doubt I'll be doing any blasting. My current compressor is only 3.7 HP and has done everything I need it to so far. The biggest drain I think I would have is running a plasma cutter, which would also use the compressor, but I could be mindful of duty cycle I guess.

 

[dcg9381]

The gladiator setups are basically what I have.. If I do it again, I'll probably do commercial racks. I've actually welded 2 gladiator units on top of each other, along the walls - which has worked great so far.

What battery setup are you using? How much storage and how much output can the inverter do? It sounds like everything is running through that inverter, so it must be a pretty big one.

My shop is 250-300' from the house. When I pulled a septic permit, part of that design was to use a grinder pump from the shop to push waste water up a 2" line to the main tank... (I don't have this installed yet).


Like you, I've got solar and a generator setup. No battery storage... So if my grid goes down, generator comes up, but solar is doing nothing for me.

We've got a giant ice storm in Texas right now, power has probably failed 6 times today.

 

[Firebrick43]

So is the off grid due to no available electricity available within 1/2 mile or other pseudo social issues?

 

[BigDaveZJ]

So is the off grid due to no available electricity available within 1/2 mile or other pseudo social issues?

Closest grid power is 2+ miles away, also prone to outages. Bringing the grid to our lot would cost the same as a solar system that would power home and shop. Neighbors already have solar and are not interested in sharing the costs of bringing the grid out to our area.

 

[matt_i]

Closest grid power is 2+ miles away, also prone to outages. Bringing the grid to our lot would cost the same as a solar system that would power home and shop. Neighbors already have solar and are not interested in sharing the costs of bringing the grid out to our area.

Based on equal cost I would go grid for what you want to do. The high power requirements for welding and any kind of electric motor work (air compression, hydraulic equipment, machining) sound very challenging to do off-grid.

You mentioned outages but with a grid system you don't need to have a HD backup genset to handle the highest power requirement any more, just keep lights, heat and water flowing. I'm assuming here that's less.

In my own case, I can keep my own house going, in various isolated pieces at a time, with a 2kW gen. I'd probably need a 25kW genset to keep my shop at the same capability with welding & the inrush of electric motors. Along those lines I also don't use the shop to feed the family, so if its down for a couple of days due to a power outage its a minor setback.

 

[Firebrick43]

Closest grid power is 2+ miles away, also prone to outages. Bringing the grid to our lot would cost the same as a solar system that would power home and shop. Neighbors already have solar and are not interested in sharing the costs of bringing the grid out to our area.

Wife and I were strongly considering moving to montana when I got out of the Corps to a place that was a few miles from available power. Was also to far from town for a job as well, especially in winter.

I had to ask cause it seems to be a thing now to live off grid even if you have power past your road. We live in the least populated county in indiana and it attracts some odd neighbors. We have two move out here in the last year that are not connected to the grid and act like its some badge of honor?? They are greenies and don't understand that PV solar with batteries has so much energy and rare earth metals involved in their manufacture that they are dirtier than grid power unless like your situation that power is hard or extremely expensive to get.

 

[nadogail]

About welders and large power tools.

I put together a home brewed generator set several years ago that can run my Hobart AC/DC stick welder, compressor, table saw, and other heavy tools. It can be rolled into my van for transportation.

Mostly I run everything from the grid, but I have the capability of operating off grid.

I strongly suggest you chose cordless tools that use a common battery, so you will, hopefully, always have a charged battery for the tool you want to need. Your solar panels can keep your interchangeable tool batteries charged.

My van has an inverter installed so that I can recharge tool batteries.

 

[dcg9381]

other pseudo social issues?

Lol...

 

[Firebrick43]

Lol...

That is the nicest way I personally can articulate the craziness going on in this country

 

[nateo]

In the interests of covering all the angles, do you or your wife have experience living in a truly rural location? It can be a beautiful dream from the outside but it doesn't work for everyone. My realtor friend says she often gets four transactions when a couple decide to move from the city out to the country. First she helps them find a house in the country, then a year later she helps them sell the house and find two separate apartments back in the city.

I don't mean this as a criticism at all, I just suggest going into something like this with eyes open and a whole lot of spousal communication.

 

[BigDaveZJ]

In the interests of covering all the angles, do you or your wife have experience living in a truly rural location? It can be a beautiful dream from the outside but it doesn't work for everyone. My realtor friend says she often gets four transactions when a couple decide to move from the city out to the country. First she helps them find a house in the country, then a year later she helps them sell the house and find two separate apartments back in the city.

I don't mean this as a criticism at all, I just suggest going into something like this with eyes open and a whole lot of spousal communication.

Luckily enough, both of us want this. The woodshop portion of this project is more for my wife than it is me. She can lay a prettier bead with our welder than I can and doesn't let me work on her Jeep unless she can't break a bolt loose. The cabin will be a vacation/2nd home for a few years before we build the shop, so we'll have a good sampling of what it will be like up there. We've already started homesteading on our place in the 'burbs too, so we've got a decent start on the concept. We aren't "out on the town" people either, so the social aspect won't be much of a change for us. This has been our plan well before the "pseudo social issues" as another poster put it.

 

[BigDaveZJ]

I strongly suggest you chose cordless tools that use a common battery, so you will, hopefully, always have a charged battery for the tool you want to need. Your solar panels can keep your interchangeable tool batteries charged.

Already have that handled, got one of the 6 battery Ryobi SuperChargers with 6 of the big 18v batts. Basically all of the tools in my current shop will get moved up there eventually, so quite a bit is already covered, and common batteries were a BIG thing for me when I built out the current shop.

 

[Junkdrawer Dog]

Wife and I were strongly considering moving to montana when I got out of the Corps to a place that was a few miles from available power. Was also to far from town for a job as well, especially in winter.

I had to ask cause it seems to be a thing now to live off grid even if you have power past your road. We live in the least populated county in indiana and it attracts some odd neighbors. We have two move out here in the last year that are not connected to the grid and act like its some badge of honor?? They are greenies and don't understand that PV solar with batteries has so much energy and rare earth metals involved in their manufacture that they are dirtier than grid power unless like your situation that power is hard or extremely expensive to get.

Are you in Greene County? If so, that would explain the odd neighbors. Weirdos from Monroe County, specifically from Bloomington wanting to live out their 1960s "back to the land" fantasies. Give it some time, they probably won't last long.

 

[Firebrick43]

Warren county. Some are from IU counter part, Purdue, some are from Chicago.

 

[Junkdrawer Dog]

Warren county. Some are from IU counter part, Purdue, some are from Chicago.

Ahhh...same subset of people, just a different county. I've known many down in Bloomington who made the move to Green Co. and then returned after a couple years. The remoteness inconveniences them in ways they had not anticipated, lol!