Off the grid Solar and/or Wind Power

[bparksntx]

I'm running into a few hurdles trying to get power to my land. I have read a little bit on alternative energy like solar and wind. I'm wondering if anyone in the GJ world has powered their structure solely on solar or wind?

My building would be a 40x60 shop with an 800 sq ft efficiency apartment built inside. It's purpose would be a weekend place. If you have experience or knowledge in alternative energy, could you tell me if I could get enough energy to support a project like this?

 

[walrus]

I'm running into a few hurdles trying to get power to my land. I have read a little bit on alternative energy like solar and wind. I'm wondering if anyone in the GJ world has powered their structure solely on solar or wind?

My building would be a 40x60 shop with an 800 sq ft efficiency apartment built inside. It's purpose would be a weekend place. If you have experience or knowledge in alternative energy, could you tell me if I could get enough energy to support a project like this?

You need to figure out what you need for power, what equipment you want to use and then go from there. In Texas you probably could do solar with good results but as an example to run a normal refrigerator 24/7 takes quite a bit of power and therefore a sizeable system. Must off grid homes that I'm familiar with use propane to run as much as possible including refrigerator, heat, dryer, lights and possibly a generator for when the sun don't shine. You'd be looking at a sizeable investment.

 

[Jim/TX/GA]

I am putting 40 solar panels on my GA house to supplement my grid power. Each panel produces 250 watts of power and costs $750 installed.

To go "off grid" you need a way to store power for times when the sun does not shine (batteries) and/or you need a generator to meet basic needs at night, and fuel to run it. You can get propane powered refrigerator, like in an RV.

It can be done.

 

[wssix99]

If you want power when the wind isn't blowing or the sun isn't shining, you need to hook up to the grid. Usually, folks who install wind or solar sell their excess production to the power company and take power when they can't generate. If lucky, the bill will net close to 0.

If you can't run company power to your building, you'd have to use a supplemental gas generator, or the like, to make your own power during times your alternative source isn't running.

 

[theoldwizard1]

You could do a "compromise" solution very easily !

Propane for heating, cooking, refrigeration (yes, they make full size refrigerator that run on propane) and backup electrical (generator). Solar electric for all light electrical loads including power hand tools (consider going with battery operated tools)

You could easily get by with a couple of deep discharge, group 27, marine batteries (4 would be better) or golf cart batteries. You would not need a huge (and expensive) solar array because 1) the loads aren't high and 2) you are only using power a couple days at a time.

The only negatives I can think of are you will need a 120V well pump (or a more expensive inverter that can handle 240V) and air conditioning. If you live in a dry climate, you can use a "swamp cooler" as those do not require as much power.



If you are willing to spend the money up front, you could go really high end. Say 5kw solar array, feeding 2 48V banks of batteries through a smart charger/240V inverter/generator controller. For heating and cooling, I would use a geothermal heat pump that has multiple zones. A 10-15kw propane generator for when high loads exceed the inverter capacity.

These system DO exists (check Outback Power) but they are not cheap !

 

[theoldwizard1]

I am putting 40 solar panels on my GA house to supplement my grid power. Each panel produces 250 watts of power and costs $750 installed.

WOW !

Besides costing $30,000 (plus whatever for batteries, controllers and inverters) you will have the capability of generating 10,000 watts ! Except when running major electric appliances (A/C, stove, dryer) you will be selling a lot back to the power company !!



Please keep us posted on the install and operation !!

 

[joe_padavano]

There are a lot of off-the-grid alternative energy magazines on the news stands. The most common solution is solar panels with a large lead-acid battery bank and an inverter/rectifier to get AC power into and out of the batteries. Most of these people still have a backup generator for those times when power use exceeds photovoltaic generation capability (or storage capability).

 

[got2boostit2]

There is a guy in TX and his twin in MI, both have solar/wind turbine setups in their homes. The TX twin is selling power back to the power company. They also have started a line of portable solar generators. I'll locate their website and post later.

 

[Hephaestus29]

What about Hydro power ? do you have any running water on your place ?

 

[theoldwizard1]

What about Hydro power ? do you have any running water on your place ?

Have you ever been to TX, especially anywhere near Dallas ?

 

[Hephaestus29]

Have you ever been to TX, especially anywhere near Dallas ?

No LOL, i'm sure it's probabaly dry but just thought i'd ask.

 

[where2]

Definitely possible. I haven't paid more than $1/watt for PV panels... (ready made, manufactured, UL listed panels on a pallet, shipped to my door, not that silly "solder it together in your spare time" nonsense folks peddle all over the Internet).

My little 4400W grid-tie system has been active since my net-meter was installed on August 1. Today was a beautiful day in South Florida = 23.5kWh generated so far today and they're still putting out 500W at 6:30PM.

I've got another pallet of panels (4600W) I'm considering for a ground mount in the yard to completely kill my monthly electric bill. (100% electric, 1800sqft house: dryer, water heater, stove, dishwasher, A/C & electric heat). The first 4400W was all I had room for on my second story roof... After 10 days running, the 4400W system is taking care of 54% of my actual electric use. Not bad when you consider my central air is running 4-5 hours per day (actual compressor run time, we never open the windows this time of year due to the humidity, and low temps outside only get to ~79°F at night).

 

[hdossett]

I would suggest buying a digital subscription to Home Power Magazine. It is pretty cheap and it give you access to passed issues. Lots of info for the off grid setup. After reading a few issues, you will start to get a feel for what it is all about!

Also, TX may be a good place for a Wind/Solar hybrid system.

I have been using solar on my RV for over 10 years. Love it and have a pretty good laymen's understanding of it, but would have to do a lot of research before going off grid, or grid tie for that matter, with my house!

Building for solar would give you a chance to maximize for efficiency and reduce the size requirement of a solar system.

H

 

[where2]

Photovoltaic Systems 2nd edition by Jim Dunlop is a good book on the subject. The "intro to solar energy" class I took in 2011 at the local community college utilized this book (2nd edition) as a textbook. Takes you from no knowledge all the way through system design. Now that third edition is out, second edition is probably getting affordable in used college textbook circles. You will want a current copy of the NEC if you design the system yourself.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Definitely possible. ...

I've got another pallet of panels (4600W) I'm considering for a ground mount in the yard to completely kill my monthly electric bill. (100% electric, 1800sqft house: dryer, water heater, stove, dishwasher, A/C & electric heat).

WOW ! Impressive !!

How about a thread with some details. What brands, where you bought them, cost (optional) and why that brand.

 

[Teken]

I'm running into a few hurdles trying to get power to my land. I have read a little bit on alternative energy like solar and wind. I'm wondering if anyone in the GJ world has powered their structure solely on solar or wind?

My building would be a 40x60 shop with an 800 sq ft efficiency apartment built inside. It's purpose would be a weekend place. If you have experience or knowledge in alternative energy, could you tell me if I could get enough energy to support a project like this?

1. What is your budget.

2. What are the electrical load requirements?

3. Does your property have the correct orientation for solar?

4. Is this about ROI? If not carry on, if so, you better think long and hard.

5. Consider a lease instead so little money up front?

6. Do things in small mile stones to get yourself up and running.

7. Buy / lease the best inverters possible along with PV panels.

8. To save space consider using the highest output solar PV. It will cost more up front but will save tons of space along with install time.

9. Fully understand battery maintenance and realistic DOD that a particular battery can sustain and endure. If you believe you can break 20% DOD you will have an expensive life ahead of you.

Teken . . .

 

[Jim/TX/GA]

WOW !

Besides costing $30,000 (plus whatever for batteries, controllers and inverters) you will have the capability of generating 10,000 watts ! Except when running major electric appliances (A/C, stove, dryer) you will be selling a lot back to the power company !!



Please keep us posted on the install and operation !!

Yes...

Well, I am not buying batteries. I will remain on the grid. The quoted price includes the inverter.

There is a 30% Federal Tax Credit right now for these systems, so I will get about 8k$ rebate next year from Uncle Sam. That helps.

The GA house is in a TVA supplied area. If you sign a contract with them this year, they will buy all the solar I can produce, up to 10 kW system, for retail price plus 9 cents, for 10 years. It is a heck of a deal. No deals like that in Texas!

They have not yet accepted my application... I will let you know if they do. The panels will be going up shortly after that.

 

[bparksntx]

Thanks for all of the replies fellas. I'm hopeful that the electric company will come through but if not trying to prepare for other options. I appreciate the tips and suggestions.

 

[trainer]

I've got an off-the grid camp and we use a generator for power and a propane for hot water, cooking and a refrigerator. A 12v rv demand pump with a deep cycle battery for running water. a 55 gallon barrell with a small submersible pump is used to fill the barrell from the lake.
I've got a Marey propane demand water heater that works great for a shower or washing dishes.

Sundanzer makes solar powered refrigerators that use a single deep-cycle battery, but the cost is a bit steep. For weekend use, you may consider a 5-day cooler and ice.

A honda 3000 ei generator uses about 3 gallons in 20 hours, so fuel costs arent really that bad. you could run it steady for a weekend on less than 10 gallons of gas. Much less if you shut it off at night and during the hours of the day when you dont need it.

Gas may be expensive, but you will get many days of run time before you come near the expense of solar or wind system.

Build a shack for the generator and sound-proof it so the noise isnt an issue.

The biggest problem with wind/solar is the cost of the batteries needed and the upkeep so you dont hurt them.

 

[hh76]

I've installed a few off grid systems like you described, and the first thing I can tell you is that if utility power is available, it will be a lot cheaper than powering through solar/wind alone. If not, it can be done, and can be pretty slick.

You'd be looking at what we refer to as a "hybrid system". That means that you would have the solar/wind to run most, and a generator to make up for poor weather, or heavy loads. Four parts to the system.

Inverters- Main components that convert the DC into AC, and are the brains of the entire operation. These are sized by how much power you are going to need at any one time. If it's just you using one machine, and some lights, it doesn't take much. If it's a couple machines, a compressor, AC, lighting, and a bunch of neon lights, it may need to be a lot of inverting power. These are nice machines that I usually use for my projects. http://www.outbackpower.com/index.php/outback-products/integrated-systems/item/flexpower-two?category_id=441

Batteries- Power source of the inverters. The size of the battery bank is determined by how much power you will use over a set period of time. That time frame is based on how long you may be without sun or wind. Most of the time we figure on 3 days of normal use without help from the sun before the bank is depleted (discharged to factory recommended state, not 100% empty)

Solar/ wind- primary source of power to charge battery bank. Sized according to time available to charge the battery bank, and the total capacity of bank. For a weekend home, smaller works because the solar has all week to charge. On a daily use home, it needs to be big enough to handle 100% of the power needed, plus extra to make up for low production days. If the system will be used year round, figure out sizing based on winter production.

Generator- Backup for lack of sun/wind, or to handle out of the ordinary power needs. With a good, pad mounted, auto start generator, the inverter can be programmed to start it up whenever the batteries need the extra charging capacity. If you don't mind the generator running more often, it can allow you to reduce the size of the battery bank, and Solar/wind system.

 

[Falcon67]

Have you ever been to TX, especially anywhere near Dallas ?

Hyrdo, LOL - that's a good one.

Selling power back here depends on the source. If he's served by a co-op, likely the answer is No.

I personally would do solar and a gen set - wind is pretty fickle and when you study it more, you'll find you need a BIG turbine to get anywhere with the wind. And we have a lot of REALLY BIG turbines out here. And, a lot of sun.