Oh boy- Need some suggestions. Brick Outbuilding

[cturboaddict]

So, we've been searching for a while for a new home. Finally found one, had to give up on having the garage in lieu for everything else we were looking for. Thankfully, I have enough space to build one.
BUTTTTT (of course, there is always a but).

The town I bought the home in (Collinsville, IL) is an old bluff town, so everything is on a pretty decent slope. So after looking it over and measure some elevations, I took my thoughts to the local city building code enforcement to ask a few questions.

I have a small (not that small) building on my property, it's an old brick building and I'm not sure what it was used for. Anyhow, it's too large to be considered a shed, and too small to be used as a garage. It's partially built into the hill and I'd need a long driveway down if I keep it in it's location. But that would move my garage workspace down and slightly hidden from the main road, which I'm very okay with.



City informed me I have two options.
1. Knock it down and build in it's place.
2. Add onto the building, which would require a structural inspection by the local city.

So here are some details-
~Home was built in 1928
~Brick Outbuilding is setback in proper location for a nice detached workspace.
~There is an old well or cisterne right next to it. (I have yet to inspect)
~Building size is 26'4"x17', I'd like to go 26'4"x26' or 24'.
~Dirt floor currently

So, do you think I can add to it? If so, would you have a suggestion as to how to proceed? Or do you think I knock all three walls down leaving the last wall as a retaining wall and build up to it? Think the engineer would **** himself if I did? It's just been spinning in my head, and I'm looking for some direction.
Thanks everyone....

 

[kbs2244]

I am sure a new build would require inspections.
So that is not a consideration.

I would add on down the hill.
That roof looks new so keep it.
Use the current walls to support the ridge.
Use matching brick if you can.



But most important, run your plans by the inspector so that neither he or you have any surprises.

 

[cturboaddict]

I am sure a new build would require inspections.
So that is not a consideration.

I would add on down the hill.
That roof looks new so keep it.
Use the current walls to support the ridge.
Use matching brick if you can.



But most important, run your plans by the inspector so that neither he or you have any surprises.

Yes sir, it absolutely would need inpsections. Both if building onto or tear down build new.
The roof is new, as of last year. Previous owners used it as a outdoor storage.
I was hoping to use a side entrance, but now that you mention it, I guess I could leave the walls as is, and just knock out the wall with all the openings on it and put the garage door on the end of the build out. Would probably save a significant amount of demo.

Of course, I plan to have the building inspector come by and take a look at the building before I set any plans at play.

 

[Milton Shaw]

Looks like a shingle roof, but that slope is too shallow for most shingles. You need to check on that roof to make sure you are not going to have leaks and roof deck damage from water not running off. Most shingles have to be on at least a 3/12 pitch or steeper and that looks like about a 1.5/12 pitch.

 

[firworks]

Why do you need to expand it or tear it down? I missed that part of the story?

City informed me I have two options.
1. Knock it down and build in it's place.
2. Add onto the building, which would require a structural inspection by the local city.

 

[cturboaddict]

Looks like a shingle roof, but that slope is too shallow for most shingles. You need to check on that roof to make sure you are not going to have leaks and roof deck damage from water not running off. Most shingles have to be on at least a 3/12 pitch or steeper and that looks like about a 1.5/12 pitch.

Good point! Didn't even think of that.

 

[cturboaddict]

Why do you need to expand it or tear it down? I missed that part of the story?

Not big enough. 26'4"x17'. No door big enough to fit any vehicle in, and not tall enough to fit my truck inside. I could get the boat in there if I blew out a wall. But that's it.

All in all, would like bigger for my type of projects. (Cars/Boats)

 

[ItsNemo]

It looks like an awful time to try to make it into what you want. The brick is nice but the layout is all wrong and no slab or anything. I'd tear down, maybe save the brick if can be salvaged, and rebuild new.

 

[ZRX61]

Why not just leave it alone & build what you want a short distance from it... then use it for storage like the previous owners... Fix it up with a proper floor & new windows etc after you build what you actually need?

 

[rsanter]

Why not just leave it alone & build what you want a short distance from it... then use it for storage like the previous owners... Fix it up with a proper floor & new windows etc after you build what you actually need?

This is what I am thinking.
The best value for that building is to close it up and use it for storage.
You can even use it to hold your compressor so you don't hear it in the shop

Bob

 

[Farmall450]

Why not just leave it alone & build what you want a short distance from it... then use it for storage like the previous owners... Fix it up with a proper floor & new windows etc after you build what you actually need?

I'm thinking this too. Put the mower or whatever in there, you'll find a use for it!

Even a gravel floor will do you good.

 

[LXCam]

I'm with those guys. It could become a cool old building with very little money. I'd leave it be and build what you need closer to the house. Then when time and money is there, pour a slab and install some windows. If anything, it's make a great pool table (whatever) party place. I would however restructure the roof for two reasons. Water shed and snow load but more so just so it's more architecturally pleasing.

 

[CadillacJack]

Why not just leave it alone & build what you want a short distance from it...

I'm only guessing here, but...there may be a two-structure limit in his zoning area, hence the two choices from the township.

 

[jd_1138]

I'm only guessing here, but...there may be a two-structure limit in his zoning area, hence the two choices from the township.

If not, I'd just keep the brick building for storage -- pour a concrete floor into it. Use it for yard equipment, overflow junk, etc.. And then build the shop separately. It'd look kind of weird if added onto this small brick structure.

I wonder if that little building was a pool house/cabana? Was there a swimming pool there many years ago?

 

[bczygan]

Building department will tell you about the existing building.

Zoning will tell you what you can do with the property, how many buildings you can have, how big they can or must be, where they can be located and what they can be used for, etc.

The most important thing that they will check on that existing building, is the foundation. You can dig down and check it yourself, then call anonymously and make inquires as to what is adequate.

The first thing I would determine, is the cost of paving to this location, and what slope and associated drainage it would require.

Then check zoning for the number, location, size, height and setbacks required for accessory buildings.

I don't know your layout, but another option is to make this a workshop and add garage space onto the existing residence.

Bill

 

[lynnbilodeau]

Why not just leave it alone & build what you want a short distance from it... then use it for storage like the previous owners... Fix it up with a proper floor & new windows etc after you build what you actually need?

I agree with this. I am getting ready to build a shop. Have a dilapidated 20x22 building that we are just going to put lipstick on and use it as an out door shed. Your little building isn't that pretty, but it isn't a huge eyesore either.
And... it is already there. Doesn't have to be perfect just for storage. If you tear it down, you will always be kicking yourself for doing so, especially every time you say: "wish I could keep this, just don't have a place to put it. Lots of guys would kill for a storage shed that big.

Then, go ahead and build what you want for a garage.

 

[thammel]

Every guy who has a garage or 2 garages always wants a shed for the lawn equipment etc. That can be a perfect shed. Put in windows and doors,and a concrete floor. Raise the roof angle for water flow. I wish I had a great big shed like that!

Tom

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

Every guy who has a garage or 2 garages always wants a shed for the lawn equipment etc. That can be a perfect shed. Put in windows and doors,and a concrete floor. Raise the roof angle for water flow. I wish I had a great big shed like that!

Tom

This is what I'd do. Please do NOT paint that nice brick. Maybe I'd paint the wood portion above with a deep green to accent the brick. Could be a great shed.

 

[matt_i]

If zoning allows, I'd keep it, has nice light, add windows, CATV and a fridge, some couches and now you are ready for fall Saturdays and Sundays Then build what you need for your other projects.

 

[woodzy]

If you are only allowed two buildings on the lot, tear it down and build what you want. Sometimes it takes more time / money to work with an older structure than it is worth. If you can three buildings - then build what you want and make this one into some other useful building.

 

[cturboaddict]

Why not just leave it alone & build what you want a short distance from it... then use it for storage like the previous owners... Fix it up with a proper floor & new windows etc after you build what you actually need?

That was my original intention and purpose of visit with the city.
I can't. City Code won't allow it. You are allowed 2 accessory structures on your property, one of those has to be considered a shed (not to exceed 250sf). They classify this as too large. So they will not allow me to build another structure.

My two options are..
1. Tear it down.
2. Build onto it.

 

[cturboaddict]

I'm only guessing here, but...there may be a two-structure limit in his zoning area, hence the two choices from the township.

Exactly right.

I'd love to leave it and build another, but they won't allow it. I'm zoned as a residential home. If I was zoned as agricultural, then I could.

 

[cturboaddict]

Building department will tell you about the existing building.

Zoning will tell you what you can do with the property, how many buildings you can have, how big they can or must be, where they can be located and what they can be used for, etc.

The most important thing that they will check on that existing building, is the foundation. You can dig down and check it yourself, then call anonymously and make inquires as to what is adequate.

The first thing I would determine, is the cost of paving to this location, and what slope and associated drainage it would require.

Then check zoning for the number, location, size, height and setbacks required for accessory buildings.

I don't know your layout, but another option is to make this a workshop and add garage space onto the existing residence.

Bill

Yes, Spoke to both building and zoning.
Building told me if I chose to build onto it, then they would need to inspect it for structural integrity.
Zoning said I couldn't build another accessory structure. Setbacks and so forth are all in order.

The paving to the location would be somewhat of a pain. But it's a catch 22. If I tear it down a build a garage closer to the street (weather attached or detached), there is going to be a considerable amount of fill needed. There is a large slope down to this location that would need to be paved.

Ah yes, the final attached garage option..... Can it be done, sure. Downside is, it will block off alot of windows on the only side of the home that I can attach to. I'll have to weight that option as well. But I'm looking for more parking.
(Wife's Car,Truck,Boat,Trailer, son's truck, and soon to be daughter's car)

 

[North Run Grader]

Just a quick thought, why not reduce the size of the shed to 17x14 roughly. Leave the back wall in place with about 6" above grade as a retaining wall. Use the old bricks to rebuild the end wall, and reconfigure your windows and or doorway. Where the demolished portion was, make a patio with a slight downhill slope so no water sits. If those are solid bricks, use the worst leftovers as a brick paver patio. It would make an awesome garden shed, with the bonus of an extra 238 sq/ft of storage not being used in the shop. Also I'm betting if you dig down inside that building you'll find the original floor. If may be a little nasty, but for garden storage, may suffice. A few years down the road you may decide a covered patio would be a simple addition after the tax men have lost interest.

 

[cturboaddict]

Just a quick thought, why not reduce the size of the shed to 17x14 roughly. Leave the back wall in place with about 6" above grade as a retaining wall. Use the old bricks to rebuild the end wall, and reconfigure your windows and or doorway. Where the demolished portion was, make a patio with a slight downhill slope so no water sits. If those are solid bricks, use the worst leftovers as a brick paver patio. It would make an awesome garden shed, with the bonus of an extra 238 sq/ft of storage not being used in the shop. Also I'm betting if you dig down inside that building you'll find the original floor. If may be a little nasty, but for garden storage, may suffice. A few years down the road you may decide a covered patio would be a simple addition after the tax men have lost interest.

That's a thought too that I didn't consider. But the back wall is 26'4".

 

[North Run Grader]

View media item 60252
Forgive my poor paint skills, but remove everything inside the red box.

 

[jask]

The window that was converted to a door opening on the long lower wall looks to have some cracks at the top, I hope I am wrong but I am guessing the foundation is inadequate and if it is, that tree on the upper side will become a problem one day. I used to live in an area with a lot of garages on steep lots and there were a lot of garages with lower level storage/workshop space.... not cheap but if you are looking at a lot of fill or building a long driveway you are spending $$ anyway and it might be an alternative ( if you knock this down and build new ). If the structure is sound I would consider tearing out the high side wall and roof and build on that high side extending toward the house... or leave the high side wall, punch thru a doorway and build the garageaddition on the high side with a proper roof for both and save that buildings floorspace as workshop/storage.

 

[cturboaddict]

The window that was converted to a door opening on the long lower wall looks to have some cracks at the top, I hope I am wrong but I am guessing the foundation is inadequate and if it is, that tree on the upper side will become a problem one day. I used to live in an area with a lot of garages on steep lots and there were a lot of garages with lower level storage/workshop space.... not cheap but if you are looking at a lot of fill or building a long driveway you are spending $$ anyway and it might be an alternative. If the structure is sound I would consider tearing out the high side wall and roof and build on that high side extending toward the house...

There is a crack there. It's extent, I'll have to investigate further. Good point.

 

[bczygan]

Is there a limit to the size that a garage can be?


I would keep this structure, if it is allowed, and add on to it a full and complete garage on the front of it.

Then this becomes the shop/shed portion.

Bill

 

[cturboaddict]

Is there a limit to the size that a garage can be?


I would keep this structure, if it is allowed, and add on to it a full and complete garage on the front of it.

Then this becomes the shop/shed portion.

Bill

1000 sf

 

[Kevin54]

As good of shape that building is in, I would fix it up. Put some windows and a door in it and use it as a shed, or small workshop. No way would I tear it down. Build the garage close to it so you can run electricity to the small building also.

 

[cturboaddict]

As good of shape that building is in, I would fix it up. Put some windows and a door in it and use it as a shed, or small workshop. No way would I tear it down. Build the garage close to it so you can run electricity to the small building also.

I'm thinking I may add a small garage door to the side of it, and use it as a small garage for a while, then just add to the thing creating my man oasis hidden down the hill from the house face.

I mean, it is 17' wide (i know that's small but), i started thinking of it after reading one of the early comments as to why I was doing this. I could still fit my boat in there.

 

[chops101]

I can't add anything over what's been stated, other than I converted a fancy horse stable to a shop/garage and the stable is what keyed me onto the house when we purchased 3 years ago. The house was somewhat secondary.

 

[cturboaddict]

I can't add anything over what's been stated, other than I converted a fancy horse stable to a shop/garage and the stable is what keyed me onto the house when we purchased 3 years ago. The house was somewhat secondary.

I think this building was a summer kitchen. But I have no friggin idea.

 

[59 wagon man]

my 2 cents is saving the building along the wall with the door and 2 window openings i would install a door and 2 glass panels. this would be my man cave/clean workroom area. a/c stereo,computer, tv etc. Now the reason for the windows is to look into my garage with all my toys. It is easy to knock it down but it is history

 

[JimR1998]

I would fix the building but watch how much you spend on it. If you try to make it into something that it isn't (i.e. a properly sited garage) it will cost you far more in the long run. I'd love to see a thread for how this progresses.

I'm in a very a similar situation as yours. It's a block outbuilding about 2x the size, newer roof, but not sited in a way that I could easily use as a garage. It would cost more to fill the floor, raise the roof, finish, etc. than just building new.

I'm going to finish half as a workshop and 1/2 as a play/rec area for the kids. On the back I'll add on a lean-to for yard equipment and other storage. Even though it isn't for cars it will be my only "garage". If $40k blows my way, I'll build a real garage attached to the front at the proper elevation.

With zoning, often times you can make two over-sized structures into one by connecting with a breezeway or even a substantial garden wall. That may give you some flexibility of where you put the new garage if you elect to build.

Also, as others have said, get rid of those trees or they will wreck your foundation which I'm assuming is stone.

 

[Farmall450]

I second cutting it down to 250 sqft, keeping it for storage. You'll find something to put on the remaining unprotected flat spot, I'm sure. Could be the backdoor to your garage!

 

[rsanter]

What about of you were to remove the one wall along the low side of the property.
This is it concidered an patio?
If you do that you could still store stuff in it like a mower and garden tools

Bob

 

[lynnbilodeau]

Obviously, when I said make it a shed AND build a garage, I didn't know about that goofy City ordinance. Not sure what the purpose is. So.....

1. Talk to your closest neighbors, and see if any of them would object to you fixing this up AND building a nice looking garage. After all, it is a bit of an eyesore right now, and they might appreciate you beautifying the neighborhood.

2. Then (assuming your neighbors are on board) I would have a sit down talk with someone at the planning commission (or whatever the governing body is). MANY times, a variance can be worked out provided none of your neighbors object. Seems silly and counterproductive to me to require tear down of this building just because you want a real garage. You might be surprised.

If that isn't an option, easy call for me; tear it down and build a proper garage.

 

[ZRX61]

That was my original intention and purpose of visit with the city.
I can't. City Code won't allow it. You are allowed 2 accessory structures on your property, one of those has to be considered a shed (not to exceed 250sf). They classify this as too large. So they will not allow me to build another structure.

My two options are..
1. Tear it down.
2. Build onto it.

Build onto it, make the addition the size you wanted in the first place.