Oil burner keeps shutting off...

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Hey guys. The oil burner here keeps shutting off. Last year it was due to a faulty thermostat. I replaced that and it worked fine. This year the thermostat in the basement needed chanting so I did that, it functioned fine. The system has been serviced within the last 3 months. When I hit the reset button it will reset, run for a little and then shut off. I got it working for a day (it's been a 3 day issue so far) but today has been the worst. I have even gone so far as to shut off the breaker to reset everything. I don't know what else to do. Nothing has been touched and when it's working fine the thermostats do control it. Ideas? I want to see I if I have all my bases covered before calling out a technician. And yes, the tank is 3/4 full.

 

[sixty4]

Cad cell?

 

[Jeff May]

Sometimes mine will take a fit and do this.
In my case,
For some reason it somehow gets air in the line.
As soon as I bleed the air off it fires right up.
This usually happens maybe 2 or 3 times during the winter....
I haven't a clue why it does it.....

 

[66cj225]

You raise a lot of specific issues on your other threads, why a general, no info approach to this one? Oil burners are generally not DIY.

 

[calif phil]

I would try cleaning the cad cell. Mine was doing the exact same thing. I ordered a new cad cell for $8 on eBay, I got it working by cleaning it until the new cell came in. It’s still working so I am just saving the new cell until the next time I am servicing it.


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[SuzukiGS750EZ]

You raise a lot of specific issues on your other threads, why a general, no info approach to this one? Oil burners are generally not DIY.

Don't know enough about them to diagnose or provide info. Was wondering if I missed anything simple or not. I know yet aren't diy, hence me not diving in lol

 

[66cj225]

If you're worried about a aftermarket thermostat, maybe put the original back in or make a manual call and see what happens. Systems are just that and oil burners are not tolerant to IP issues.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I got it to go on. Been running now for about 15 min... we'll see if it stays on.

 

[Caddybill]

A thermostat problem will not cause the cad cell relay to go ino safety.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

As of right now it's come on on it's own twice, but I'm not counting on it for the long haul. Going to get a technician out here tomorrow and maybe I'll be a bystander so I can help myself out next time. Once I see how the system is made safe (I'm guessing once power is cut to the unit it's rendered safe, which I can do currently anyways lol) then I'll be more comfortable.

 

[malibu101]

Last year my oil burner would randomly trip the safety. After a couple of times I called a service company.
My transformer was bad as in it was putting out a weak spark. Sometimes it had enough spark to light off but other times it didn't.
A new transformer and electrodes along with a clean, test, and tune has it still purring along now.

 

[Wolfman6]

Sounds like the fuel filter is clogged. Once it shuts off the pressure is off the filter material and it becomes unclogged until it runs again for a while.

 

[themiller]

Thermostat have batteries? I replace mine yearly and you mentioned a year... all I got

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Thermostat have batteries? I replace mine yearly and you mentioned a year... all I got

Yes. Put new ones in the one i changed when it was changed last week, the one i first replaced i put fresh ones in today.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Sounds like the fuel filter is clogged. Once it shuts off the pressure is off the filter material and it becomes unclogged until it runs again for a while.

That's a good theory and makes sense to me. I will let you all know what the prognosis is when the call goes in tomorrow. I'm going to leave this one to somebody who knows what they're doing. Electrical, plumbing and carpentry i'll do but HVAC i feel i could actually create an issue with unless it's along the lines of one of the three i mentioned above. Thanks for the help guys!

 

[sberry]

Some simple stuff that is overlooked, one is the fan getting dirty, they build up and it throws the air rate off. Check it, clean with toothbrush.

 

[Dozerhand]

Some simple stuff that is overlooked, one is the fan getting dirty, they build up and it throws the air rate off. Check it, clean with toothbrush.

Sberry's right. I've seen a dirty fan shut down an oil burner. Also is there a dirty filter or a screen obstructing air flow. If the heat can't get out of the heat exchanger fast enough it will trip a high limit switch. When it cools down the burner will restart and run ok until it trips again.

 

[Glacial_Speed]

Cad cell?

That was my first thought too, Cad cell, I like the clogged filter (or strainer on the oil pump) theory too, except it was serviced 3 months ago. If it was serviced they should have set the electrode gap, replaced the tank filter and the oil pump strainer, change the nozzle and do the efficiency test thing.

I also had an oil pump die on me, didn't expect that.

You really should be replacing the pump strainer and tank filter yearly at least. If you can change oil on a car......this is easier.

Is this an oil furnace (hot air) or an oil boiler (hot water) that's heating the house? I've got a boiler here, so it's like plumbing most of the time.

One of the reasons I started learning to work on the boiler myself was when I had a pressure reducing valve corrode and fail, I felt like I was trying to talk the "on call 24/7" guy out of a bar because all he wanted to tell me was if it was over 10 years old I need to spend at least $5000 for a new boiler (total ******** BTW).

I don't mind spending money on professionals but there seem to be more than a few sleaze bags pretending to be real professionals out there wanting to up sell like hell. And if you don't know better, then you'll buy that new boat.....for him, you just won't know it.

 

[DCarr2]

I had this issue... cost me $600 to diagnose...

Problem: Plugged feed line.

Disconnect the feed line (if a 2 line system, DO NOT disconnect the return line, if 1 line its the same procedure)

attach a 3/8" ID (mines 3/8) to the end, do this after the filter...


so you have tank filter furnace. you want to bypass the filter, attach the hose, and put it in a small container of oil, about a gallon... and push the button... If its a fuel situation, itll **** you bucket dry....

Theyre solution: Spend $4,000 NOW to have heat for 1 month. lol

I ended up 'abandoning' my tank, and using buckets until I can install new tanks in the basement this spring

 

[sberry]

The fan I was mentioning was the burner fan, they get neglected too.

 

[WVBrady]

Sometimes mine will take a fit and do this.
In my case,
For some reason it somehow gets air in the line.
As soon as I bleed the air off it fires right up.
This usually happens maybe 2 or 3 times during the winter....
I haven't a clue why it does it.....

Mine did that until I put in a return line, even though the tank was higher than the burner.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

So I wasn't there when the technician came, I guess the furnace "didn't like the flame it saw", that's all I got out of my lady... lol. All fixed

 

[Glacial_Speed]

The way it "sees" the flame is with the Cad cell, so I'm thinking the first reply by Sixty4 got it right.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

The way it "sees" the flame is with the Cad cell, so I'm thinking the first reply by Sixty4 got it right.

Correct. Once they said "cad eye" I figured it was one in the same

 

[machsnell]

I have dealt with oil furnaces and boilers in every house I have lived in including my current.

I had a new one this winter. It was the burner head. It had a crack in it and disrupted air flow and flame. It would run for awhile (hours or a day) and then trip. It was also burning sooty.

Cleaned cad checked oil pressure and electrodes cleaned entire system.

Had to call tech out and he said that was it. Even though it looked close to perfect and just had a crack he said that would throw it off.

New one to me.

7 dollar part.

Live and learn. Glad you are back working.

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[pbon]

Our oil burner has randomly shut down for years. Luckily we were usually home or home soon after. Until a few weeks ago when we were out of town. House got down to 25F, pipes froze and a few burst and we did not find all the bursts until the pipes warmed up, which meant water leaking and a big mess. I think the issue in our case is in the oil feed line, whether line or filter, or in the ignition system. And sometimes it restarts with a bunch of bangs after one of these episodes, which makes me think oil was still feeding in but not igniting. Going to a NG furnace next year.

 

[Jackfre]

I would not let this go until I spoke with the tech myself. "Not liking the flame it sees" is not an explanation. That tells you it was the combustion side of things, but if the heat exchangers is not cleaned and sufficient combustion air isn't supplied you are on the downhill, a steep one, to the next outage. If you get a tech who comes back to clean & set the unit up and he brings in a screwdriver and a pair of channel-lock, feel free to hit him in the head with a hammer and ask him to send the guy with the digital analyzer. With oil, once you are in to flame drop-out it is time to do a complete service on the system. You will pay for the service call in efficiency gains and peace of mind.

 

[yeldogt]

Almost every house I have ever purchased came with oil -- became a bit of an expert with various types.....would have preferred to remain ignorant

Did they replace the CAD or clean it ? Because, if they only cleaned it .. something is not correct with the flame .. it should not need cleaning with 3 months of running.

With most oil systems it's important to do a bit of oil usage tracking -- w/o proper cleaning and set up they can waste a lot of oil. My most recent house had three burners -- two furnace and one hot water. It was always a guess on my part ... should I pay $300 for a cleaning/contract or let it ride for another year. I always had my main unit serviced each year w/ contract .. the HW and secondary depended on use (weekend house)

Another thing that's really important IMO if the tanks are not new and outside (cold) -- is a tiger loop. I had nothing but problems with two pipe systems -- the tiger loop warms the fuel and removes all the air. I had two buried tanks.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Last year my oil burner would randomly trip the safety. After a couple of times I called a service company.
My transformer was bad as in it was putting out a weak spark. Sometimes it had enough spark to light off but other times it didn't.
A new transformer and electrodes along with a clean, test, and tune has it still purring along now.

This same thing happened to the oil fired boiler in my house as well!

I have always had the system serviced by the people who put it in, and also supply my oil. A few years ago, out of the blue, my boiler would just shut down randomly and not come back on. It is not too nice to come home to a cold house in the winter, or not have any hot water for showers in the morning!

The techs that came out to my house several times over the course of a few weeks and tried just about everything. They replaced the cad cell. They replaced the oil filter. They replaced the oil nozzle. They replaced the aqua stat, they seemed to try everything, and nothing seemed to fix the problem for more than a day.

Then they finally sent out their oldest and most experienced tech. He had been promoted up to a manager, and mostly worked in the office, but also went out to job sights to oversee new installations.

He went over to the boiler, opened up the transformer where the leads are that provide the spark for firing the boiler, and he told me to turn the power back on to the furnace. I did that, and he took a screwdriver and touched the two leads together, and saw that there was barely any spark between the leads.

He replaced the transformer with a new one, checked the spark, and sure enough it was jumping really hot between the leads!

He put everything back together, and my boiler ran nice and smooth again. He said that my oil consumption would go down a bit also, and that would save a bit of money, which was nice.

Jim

 

[WVBrady]

That should have been one of the first things that they checked.

 

[CJ7VFR]

That should have been one of the first things that they checked.

The other techs who came out did a check of the transformer, but apparently they only did a check with a multi-meter, which showed there was power to the leads. So I guess they figured it was good, and went on trying other things. This is an example of where experience is essential for diagnosing a consistent issue.

The older tech knew that even though the transformer leads may be showing proper voltage, the spark could still be weak, and the only way to see how strong the spark was would be to touch a screwdriver between the two leads and look at the actual spark. I bet the younger techs were afraid to do that, so they just followed the procedure to check for voltage at the leads with a multi-meter.

This older tech said it was kind of like a car battery that won't start your car. He said you can put a multi-meter onto the posts of a car battery, and it can show 12 volts, and look good, but the battery won't start the car because it has lost all of its amperage.

Jim

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

The other techs who came out did a check of the transformer, but apparently they only did a check with a multi-meter, which showed there was power to the leads. So I guess they figured it was good, and went on trying other things. This is an example of where experience is essential for diagnosing a consistent issue.

The older tech knew that even though the transformer leads may be showing proper voltage, the spark could still be weak, and the only way to see how strong the spark was would be to touch a screwdriver between the two leads and look at the actual spark. I bet the younger techs were afraid to do that, so they just followed the procedure to check for voltage at the leads with a multi-meter.

This older tech said it was kind of like a car battery that won't start your car. He said you can put a multi-meter onto the posts of a car battery, and it can show 12 volts, and look good, but the battery won't start the car because it has lost all of its amperage.

Jim

That makes sense. This is what I try to explain to people about the automotive batteries but they think I'm just trying to get them to buy a new one (I do car audio on the side). Just as well they don't think upgrading wiring to a thicker gauge will make a difference (it does, especially grounds). Sometimes like that tech said, experience is key. I'm very familiar with GM's and a big issue with the older ones is passlock... you hear the symptoms (which look like another) and you know what to look at next. Everyone has to start somewhere, hopefully the younger tech figures it out on his own. Glad mines fixed, glad yours is fixed. I'm not shy about plumbing or electrical, but HVAC... I'll pick and choose. Thanks for all the help again guys, I love this forum.

 

[Renfrick]

I do Hvac for residential homes for 30 years. This thread cracks me up.


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[01-7700]

I bought a boiler at Home Depot about 10 years back and put it in myself. It has 3 zones, and I switched out the controls to make it cold start. When it starts to have problems I will buy another one to replace it. It's a Slant Fin boiler, not designed to run as a cold start so the boiler will likely crack some day. If I remember right, the whole thing was $1200. I do my own cleanings and adjust the flame by eye. I also add "Boiler Liquid" every year to take care of any small leaks that develop.

 

[WVBrady]

...The older tech knew that even though the transformer leads may be showing proper voltage, the spark could still be weak, and the only way to see how strong the spark was would be to touch a screwdriver between the two leads and look at the actual spark...Jim

Good point. The reason I knew to do that was that I watched the guy who did mine the first time and asked him questions. He didn't like that, and would kind of toss down his tools when I asked a question, but I didn't have to hire anyone back in the 37 years after that. I did replace my transformer a few years ago when it got weak. I did find one book that helped me fix another problem, but most places I looked for help said to get a professional.

The biggest problem that I had early on was getting air in the lines; the guy that I bought the house off of actually had a little wrench by the furnace to turn the bleed screw. Most of the problem was his crummy connections and valves. He actually used a water valve as a shutoff valve. I corrected those problems and then put in a return line to the tank; since then I have never had another problem with air in the line.

Now, there are several videos that are pretty good, so I am going to buy some of the equipment to do some fine tuning on my own. The place where I bought my supplies told me that none of the technicians around here have that equipment; they just go on eyeballing the flame and on experience.

 

[nelstomlinson]

Cad cells are a common problem source, and air in the fuel is another. Putting in a Tiger Loop will eliminate a lot of intermittant problems.

 

[Renfrick]

A tiger loop will not fix an air leak!!!


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