Oil gelling

[tgj7]

On sub zero days I sometimes get gelling in the form of sputtering or a complete shutdown of the burner and I have to blow back the lines and change the filter.

I have an idea for a long term fix, but could not find it online. The thinking is that it has already been done or it will not work. I think i'm using the wrong search terms.

I want to have 5gal tank in the burner room where the oil burner would draw oil from. That tank would be a little colder then room temperature because it would be filled from the main tank as needed by its own pump. This extra tank will supply the burner in a case where the lines or tank gels. An alarm on the pre tank pump, if it does not fill the tank in 5min, would alert me, but will still give me time before the burner stops. The 5 min shutdown will also prevent the pump from emptying the tank into my boiler room. Also, since I have two lines from the oil tank, a feed and return, I can put the return on top of the pre tank to return the over flow.

Anyone have a link to a commercially available product, or has someone every done this, or am I nuts.

275 Gal outside tank.
I use "Heat" anti gel and 5 gal of kerosene for each oil fill up.
Electric heat tape and insulation on the lines.


Thanks.

 

[Bondo]

or am I nuts.

Ayuh,.... I think so, as well as overly complicated,.....

I've got an outside fuel tank fulla #2 oil,...
I ran a 1/2", insteada 3/8" line, 'n use This if it's gonna get really cold, though it was -35° yesterday, 'n it had No problems,....
I also add a biocide annually, to keep the algae down,...

The simplest fix for you, is to increase the amount of #1 oil,....
Up to 40%,...

 

[06 DIESEL]

I have three 275 gallon tanks at the place that are for heating the garage and half the house. Have not had any issues with gelling up, but I treat the tanks with Power Service white bottle once it gets to 32* and keep treating till it is above 32* at night consistently. I also run diesel fuel instead of home heating oil but that is a personal choice.

 

[tgj7]

Bondo, adding more #1 is not so easy or cost effective. By me #1 is 2-3 times the price of #2, not to mention the distance to the only #1 dealer within 50 miles.

"overly complicated" maybe, but it only has to be done once. I did think about upgrading to 1/2", as plan B.

06 DIESEL, not sure i understood, you use diesel fuel with the on-road taxes? Why?

 

[ctfjr]

Around here the oil companies use a product called FPPF HOT 4 IN 1 oil additive for all their outside tank customers.

 

[Bondo]

not to mention the distance to the only #1 dealer within 50 miles.

Ayuh,.... Ya haven't mentioned where you are,.....

Is yer fuel delivered, or are ya can carryin' all of it,..??

In my case, the difference is the price, 'n which truck is sent to my house,....

Have ya changed the filter lately,..??

Was there alota black crud in it,..??

 

[tgj7]

I'm in Putnam County, NY.

#2 gets delivered.

The Oil company does an yearly cleaning, including the filter, in Nov, and I change it again in Feb. It's clean, but, but for about $5, and 15 min of my time, I do it to maximize the flow.

 

[6t7gto]

I had to look up the definition of "ayuh".
Now I know.

 

[Rookie2]

Have you thought about insulating the 275 gal tank ?

or: extend the fuel return line to empty near the fuel pickup in the 275.

 

[Bondo]

I'm in Putnam County, NY.

#2 gets delivered.

The Oil company does an yearly cleaning, including the filter, in Nov, and I change it again in Feb. It's clean, but, but for about $5, and 15 min of my time, I do it to maximize the flow.

Ayuh,.... That far South, I'm thinkin' ya got another problem, rather than gellin' fuel,....

As I said, it was almost -40° the other mornin', 'n I had to problem,....

Maybe the oil Pump is gettin' weak,..??

My system is a single line system, no return pipe, but a 1/2" feed line,....

 

[jkwilson]

I think a 5 gallon tank is too small, and a pump and timer is just something that will fail at the worst possible time.

When I had oil heat, I had a 120 gallon tank in the furnace room and a 275 gallon tank outside. The 275 was plumbed to the 120 via a valve. I'd fill them both in the summer when #2 was dirt cheap, then open the valve as needed and top off the 120 from the 275. No need for a pump and I didn't have to worry about the inner tank running out of fuel if I needed to go someplace for a few days.

 

[Shop Specialties]

I would use FPPF Hot 4-1 additive and double dose when temps get below zero.

 

[Caddybill]

Use an additive to change the pour point of the oil. They also make a heating rod that threads into the top of the tank. As mentioned b4 use the 4 in 1 stuff first. Also insulate you oil lines if they are exposed outside.

 

[bcoke]

Well here in Vermont [ minus 22 degrees Sunday/53 degrees Tuesday] we get a lot of cold placed my workshop/guest house on oil heat with the 330 gal tank in shed attached to building.......was advised to use Kerosene.........plus 2 i/2 inch lines running in........17 years later no problems with gelling, the burner hardley needs it's yearley cleaning as it burns so clean and I swear that the Higher BTU's the kerosene provides per gallon [my own opinion] makes up for any difference in cost........At work [a trucking co. we would load the underground tanks with 50/50 diesel/kerosene mix for the winter......IMHO Bobbycoke

 

[finn]

Kerosene has fewer BTUs than number one or number 2 fuel oil (or Diesel)

I've been buying off road Diesel at the pump because it's been up to $.90 per gallon cheaper than no. 2 fuel oil delivered to my tank.

BTU content is lower than regular no.2 fuel oil though, because the fuel at the pump is a winter blend this time of year.


Actually, the stuff sold as fuel oil is likely the same as off road Diesel now, come to think of it, which is the same as on road but with the red dye.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I'm on board with the additive...

Tommy

 

[Bondo]

Kerosene has fewer BTUs than number one or number 2 fuel oil (or Diesel)

Ayuh,... Kerosene, IS #1 fuel oil,...

'n yer Right, it has less btu's per gallon, than #2 oil,...

 

[tgj7]

Guess I will go with plan B, upgrade to 1/2 lines. I will give "FPPF Hot 4-1" a try. Thanks everyone for the input.

 

[finn]

Ayuh,... Kerosene, IS #1 fuel oil,...

'n yer Right, it has less btu's per gallon, than #2 oil,...

No: Kerosene and number 1 heating oil are close, but are technically different products. Kerosene is a tighter specification.

Likewise, some jet fuels are loosely described as kerosene, but have different specs. Diesel fuels have additional requirements and corresponding specs.

Kerosene is described under ASTM D 3699 while No.1 fuel oil is defined under ASTM D 396.

There are several differences, such as kinematic viscosity and sulfur content, and the distillation curves are different.

The ASTM specs aren't readily available (subscription only) but there is some good information in a Chevron paper published a few years ago. I don't have a link, and I got rid of that stuff when I retired, but I think it is on the WEB.

 

[tgj7]

Finn, you schooled me with that info. Thanks.

Now other then in a Jet or a modern diesel car/truck they are interchangeable, #1<->Kerosene and #2<->Diesel. I have run out of #2 and used on-road diesel till I got a fill up. And truthfully the gas station that sells #1 has a sign "#1/Kerosene"

 

[finn]

The big difference between Diesel fuel and number 2 heating oil was minimum lubricity spec and minimum cetane rating as well as sulfur content and cleanliness levels.

Also, Diesel fuel in Northern states is winterized by adding poor point additives seasonally and /or cutting it with no. 1.

Heating oil destroyed a lot of injecton equipment and caused a lot of misdiagnosed starting and performance problems back when I was involved with this type of thing.

forty cetane heating oil makes a lot of white smoke at 7500 feet altitude on an engine that is designed for 42-45 cetane.

Realistically, in many markets, the oil companies sell diesel fuel, but with red dye added as fuel oil simple because of storage and logistics constraints and volume considerations.

Diesel has higher specs than fuel oil so nobody loses.

Going the other way, ie selling fuel oil, but undyed, would create a problem.

 

[Jackfre]

You can add an oil line preheater. I would suggest that you visit your local Sid Harvey's, which are all over NYS. Get the specs on your burner and discuss with them. A Tiger Loop is always a good idea for any oil delivery issue. Other than zero, what else is your oil company suggesting? Enclose the tank!

 

[malarson]

I had problems with my lines freezing right where it comes out of the tank. Added heat tape, insulation, nothing helped. I only have a 150 gallon tank, so this may not be work for bigger tanks, but what I did was put a 2x4 under the legs on the end where the lines come out, any moisture will stay at the other end of the tank. I leave it like this all winter and remove the 2x4 in the spring and drain the moisture out. Have not had a problem with it in 4 years. This is for my garage/shop that I only heat when I am out there.

 

[tgj7]

They had a few ideas, enclose the tank, add #1, add "Heat" additive, upgrade to 1/2 lines. 20 years ago they told me to put an underground tank in.

 

[86turbodsl]

I had to look up the definition of "ayuh".
Now I know.

I'm glad i wasn't the only one who wondered why he always says that...

To the OP, I do something similar. I have 2 330 Gallon oil tanks outside the shop and one inside. I cross connect them all, so gravity maintains them all the same level. The burner pulls from inside though, and the majority of that oil will stay at room temp. There will be a very slow flow from outside to the inside as the burner pulls oil from the indoor tank.

 

[tgj7]

Years ago I had that idea as well, place a small tank in the crawlspace, it's always above 50 degrees down there, but as I get older, I want to go down there less. Just finished moving all phone/cable/intranet junctions/termination to one closet on the first floor.