Oil heat vs. Propane
- Thread starter SPDMETL
- Start date
I would convert to natural gas and/or propane over oil any day. I imagine you can switch back/forth between gas/propane with some (slight?) modifications. You won't be able to do that with oil. Cost? Gas/propane has to be cheaper than oil, too.
LocoCoco
Well-known member
I can't give you any numbers on dollars saved, but I do know that tons of people around here convert from oil to gas. Kijiji is full of 10-year old oil furnaces and tanks for that reason.
And if your oil furnace is 40 years old I'll bet more heat is going out the chimney than into your house. You need a new furnace, so may as well go gas. Then again, as I mentioned Kijiji is full of oil furnaces so a very cheap upgrade for efficiency for you could be to buy and have installed a used one. Around here anyway, a 10 year old forced-air oil furnace with tank (not that you need one) tend to be priced around $300.
I'm on oil too as I can't get gas where I live. My uncle owns a local HVAC company and suggests I someday convert to propane as they're cheaper to run.
LC.
And if your oil furnace is 40 years old I'll bet more heat is going out the chimney than into your house. You need a new furnace, so may as well go gas. Then again, as I mentioned Kijiji is full of oil furnaces so a very cheap upgrade for efficiency for you could be to buy and have installed a used one. Around here anyway, a 10 year old forced-air oil furnace with tank (not that you need one) tend to be priced around $300.
I'm on oil too as I can't get gas where I live. My uncle owns a local HVAC company and suggests I someday convert to propane as they're cheaper to run.
LC.
ishiboo
Well-known member
Fuel oil is not substantially more expensive than propane, in fact until recent times it was nearly the same price as natural gas. Now diesel/fuel oil is up and right now it runs about the same $/BTU as propane.
However, in general fuel oil furnaces are less efficient - most of the ones I see are 80-85%. So you loose a couple % there.
Oil to gas requires a new furnace. Do you have natural gas running to your home? You may be responsible for none, part or all of the costs of running the line and installing a meter depending on your utility. Give them a call.
Natural gas is the way to go. No fuel on your property, prices are stabler and you have access to the most number of appliances at the lowest costs. And it's cheaper than propane by a decent amount.
However, in general fuel oil furnaces are less efficient - most of the ones I see are 80-85%. So you loose a couple % there.
Oil to gas requires a new furnace. Do you have natural gas running to your home? You may be responsible for none, part or all of the costs of running the line and installing a meter depending on your utility. Give them a call.
Natural gas is the way to go. No fuel on your property, prices are stabler and you have access to the most number of appliances at the lowest costs. And it's cheaper than propane by a decent amount.
babzog
Well-known member
Interesting... I always understood that oil was cheaper (my propane bills aren't cheap at all). Oil was cheaper but less efficient, gas, the other way round.
I need to do something about heating the house. The geothermal is nice and all, but my $250 / month hydro bill is now $350 / month with the Ontario liberals having increased our hydro rates, and the rates are due to go up anther 46%!
A gas/wood combo unit would be nice as I've already got propane service, but I don't think they're permitted in Ontario.
The outdoor wood furnaces are attractive but I hear they consume wood like nobody's business.
LocoCoco
Well-known member
No, don't worry! We'll be getting a 10% rebate off our hydro bills starting next year! That should cover the 46% increase, no?
My FIL went this route and it looks like a major PITA. System cost him close to $10K and he gets to freeze his nuts off every morning and evening tossing frozen 4' logs into a box (not to mention first obtaining the logs, piling, and repeating). No thanks. I'll live broker but enjoy my time at home - I have enough chores to do without manually heating my house.
LC.
I switched from oil to propane. It was a pretty big mistake in some ways. I thought it would be cheaper - absolutely not. Propane burns less btu per gallon, and the costs is the same or more if you don't own the tank. The company you get the tank from can pretty much screw you and charge whatever they want. When you have oil, you can call around all the different companies and get the best price.
I've threatened to cancel before though and got basically the lowest rate, minus another 10c a gollon. So you pretty much have to negotiate to play the game.
I do like that it burns so much cleaner and requires less maint. though. No more soot to clean..
I've threatened to cancel before though and got basically the lowest rate, minus another 10c a gollon. So you pretty much have to negotiate to play the game.
I do like that it burns so much cleaner and requires less maint. though. No more soot to clean..
Natural gas is much cheaper, 2nd would be oil and last propane, at least this is true in Maine
boo coo tracks
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2007
- Messages
- 134
Fuel Comparison Calculator for Home Heating
Cost per Million BTU Calculations.
Fuel Type Fuel Unit Cost per Unit BTU per Unit Efficieny Cost per million BTU
Coal(bulk) Short Ton(2000 Lbs.) $ % $08.33
Coal(40lb. Bag) 40 lb. bag $ % $15.62
Coal(50lb. Bag) 50 lb. bag $ % $14.58
Wood Full Cord $ % $16.23
Wood Pellets Short Ton(2000 Lbs.) $ % $21.65
Corn Short Ton(2000 Lbs.) $ % $21.65
Fuel Oil No.2 Gallon $ 138,690 % $30.90
Electric kiloWatt-hour (kWh) $ 3,412 % $35.17
Natural Gas(Therm) Therm $ 100,000 % $14.75
Natural Gas(Mcf) Mcf (1000 cubic foot) $ 1,031,000 % $14.74
Propane Gallon $ 91,333 % $27.37
Kerosene Gallon $ 135,000 % $27.78
Reverse Calculation
This section will give you a real world estimate based on the Cost/BTU/Efficiency values in the calculator above, values used above will effect estimates in this section. If for example you use $500 worth of fuel oil in one month you can select Fuel Oil from the drop down list and type $400 in to the text box. Hit the recalcualte button and you'll get estimates for what it would cost if you were using another fuel.
Coal(bulk) Coal(40lb. Bag) Coal(50lb. Bag) Wood Wood Pellets Corn Fuel Oil No.2 Electric Natural Gas(Therm) Natural Gas(Mcf) Propane Kerosene $
Coal(bulk) $1,000.00 Coal(40lb. Bag) $1,875.00
Coal(50lb. Bag) $1,750.00 Wood $1,948.05
Wood Pellets $2,597.40 Corn $2,597.40
Fuel Oil No.2 $3,708.17 Electric $4,220.40
Natural Gas(Therm) $1,770.00 Natural Gas(Mcf) $1,769.16
Propane $3,284.68 Kerosene $3,333.33
Cost per Million BTU Calculations.
Fuel Type Fuel Unit Cost per Unit BTU per Unit Efficieny Cost per million BTU
Coal(bulk) Short Ton(2000 Lbs.) $ % $08.33
Coal(40lb. Bag) 40 lb. bag $ % $15.62
Coal(50lb. Bag) 50 lb. bag $ % $14.58
Wood Full Cord $ % $16.23
Wood Pellets Short Ton(2000 Lbs.) $ % $21.65
Corn Short Ton(2000 Lbs.) $ % $21.65
Fuel Oil No.2 Gallon $ 138,690 % $30.90
Electric kiloWatt-hour (kWh) $ 3,412 % $35.17
Natural Gas(Therm) Therm $ 100,000 % $14.75
Natural Gas(Mcf) Mcf (1000 cubic foot) $ 1,031,000 % $14.74
Propane Gallon $ 91,333 % $27.37
Kerosene Gallon $ 135,000 % $27.78
Reverse Calculation
This section will give you a real world estimate based on the Cost/BTU/Efficiency values in the calculator above, values used above will effect estimates in this section. If for example you use $500 worth of fuel oil in one month you can select Fuel Oil from the drop down list and type $400 in to the text box. Hit the recalcualte button and you'll get estimates for what it would cost if you were using another fuel.
Coal(bulk) Coal(40lb. Bag) Coal(50lb. Bag) Wood Wood Pellets Corn Fuel Oil No.2 Electric Natural Gas(Therm) Natural Gas(Mcf) Propane Kerosene $
Coal(bulk) $1,000.00 Coal(40lb. Bag) $1,875.00
Coal(50lb. Bag) $1,750.00 Wood $1,948.05
Wood Pellets $2,597.40 Corn $2,597.40
Fuel Oil No.2 $3,708.17 Electric $4,220.40
Natural Gas(Therm) $1,770.00 Natural Gas(Mcf) $1,769.16
Propane $3,284.68 Kerosene $3,333.33
digdug18
Well-known member
Isn't the saying, go modern, go gas, go boom!
I use oil, my parents use oil, my grandparents use oil, it can be efficient. I have a 1200sqft home, my furnace only turns on once per night, and is set at 66 degrees. I filled my 250 gallon tank 2 months ago, and it'll need to be filled before christmas. When I finally switch to a solar hot water setup I expect to use less oil, only for heat them not both heat and hot water. In my case it works great.
Last year when my power went out, I plugged the oil furnace circuit into a converter and ran my car to re heat the house every day. Worked fine for the 3 days without power. I remember hearing reports that because everyone in the midwest were having such bad ice storms and cold weather that the natural gas pipelines had low pressure and that lots of peoples natural gas burners would not turn on, resulting in frozen pipes, etc. I'd rather rely on a older more reliable system to heat my house, I do have a wood stove as backup if need be though.
Andrew
I use oil, my parents use oil, my grandparents use oil, it can be efficient. I have a 1200sqft home, my furnace only turns on once per night, and is set at 66 degrees. I filled my 250 gallon tank 2 months ago, and it'll need to be filled before christmas. When I finally switch to a solar hot water setup I expect to use less oil, only for heat them not both heat and hot water. In my case it works great.
Last year when my power went out, I plugged the oil furnace circuit into a converter and ran my car to re heat the house every day. Worked fine for the 3 days without power. I remember hearing reports that because everyone in the midwest were having such bad ice storms and cold weather that the natural gas pipelines had low pressure and that lots of peoples natural gas burners would not turn on, resulting in frozen pipes, etc. I'd rather rely on a older more reliable system to heat my house, I do have a wood stove as backup if need be though.
Andrew
This is an interesting list, but a little complicated for my simple brain..
link to calculator ?
link to calculator ?
My neighbor is a HVAC guy and he will swear by oil over/propane or gas. The oil may be less efficent but the BTUs in the output over shadow propane/gas. Atleast that's his argument.
The cost per gallon is going to greatly depend on where where you live in the US/Canada. Your location also being relavent to which product is available to you.
My parents have propane and own their tank, they can shop around for propane. Generally if you rent/lease a tank, you have to buy from that company.. . . . price fixing ?
We have fuel oil and own the tank in the basement. I generally will stop in at the fuel depot and get 20 gals of dyed kerosene and dump in the tank every couple of weeks. It may cost more per gallon than #2 fuel oil but it does help offset the cost of getting a 150-200 gallon fill up. With propane, I wouldn't be able to do that. Which is one advantage having fuel oil that I like.
The cost per gallon is going to greatly depend on where where you live in the US/Canada. Your location also being relavent to which product is available to you.
My parents have propane and own their tank, they can shop around for propane. Generally if you rent/lease a tank, you have to buy from that company.. . . . price fixing ?
We have fuel oil and own the tank in the basement. I generally will stop in at the fuel depot and get 20 gals of dyed kerosene and dump in the tank every couple of weeks. It may cost more per gallon than #2 fuel oil but it does help offset the cost of getting a 150-200 gallon fill up. With propane, I wouldn't be able to do that. Which is one advantage having fuel oil that I like.
babzog
Well-known member
No, don't worry! We'll be getting a 10% rebate off our hydro bills starting next year! That should cover the 46% increase, no?
They're basically pricing the green technology (that they want to encourage) out of the hands of most people. Geothermal is supposedly the efficient in terms of getting # of BTUs per dollar. But, when the price of hydro spikes through the roof, suddenly, burning non-renewables makes more sense from a bottom line perspective.
I have a woodstove in the basement which really helps on the cold days, but even that is a bunch of work, carrying logs down the stairs every 2-3 days (it's not that bad - it's exercise in the winter - but it's a chore that I wonder if I'll still be wanting to do when I'm 80+?). Like you, I also don't think I want to tend an outdoor boiler.
I've had several of both types, oil is great as long as you maintain the system. When I had a 25+ year old furnace(oil) replaced I bet my oil consumption dropped by 25%... I replaced the oil tank and lines while I was at it and put a good filter on. No problems at all. You can get oil tanks filled dirt cheap in off season, and in a pinch go get some K1 and throw in the tank. Propane costs have one through the roof too many times in the last 10 years for it to be more economical than oil IMO.
I prefer oil over propane. Gives a warmer heat and in the event you run out you can take a couple 5 gal cans to anyplace that has #2 diesel & be back in business. If you have propane, you get to pay a 100.00 'special' just to get the truck to your driveway THEN a minimum delivery which was 250 gal for the company I worked at on top of that. Only way to avoid this extra charge was to be a 'keep full' customer but then you couldn't plan your deliveries to fit your budget. Natural gas would be the way I would go if it was an option where I live but here it is either oil or LP.
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After spending 4 hours trying to find a "decent" propane company to supply me for my garage heater I can't imagine why anyone in North NJ would voluntarily choose propane.
I have oil heat for my house, and I can call a few dozen places and buy oil on the spot as long as I can take 150 gallons minimum (not a problem with 550 gallon tank). Current price is ~$2.75/gallon.
For my propane in my garage I was quoted all kinds of options. I don't own a tank currently. Most places that offered tanks wanted 3 year "contracts" with ~$100/year tank rentals. The initial fill was $1.89/gallon. After that they could not project. Places that would fill a tank I owned wanted closer to $3-4/gallon. The prices were all over. I knew people that delivered for the big companies and they all cautioned me that they are crooks.
Do a bunch of research. Call around. Look around on the web.
With a quick web search I could find 10 suppliers of oil that publish their prices daily on the internet. In a full morning of internet searches I couldn't find 1 company that would do that with propane!
Whatever you do, make sure you are comfortable. You are basically stuck after you decide.
ac
I have oil heat for my house, and I can call a few dozen places and buy oil on the spot as long as I can take 150 gallons minimum (not a problem with 550 gallon tank). Current price is ~$2.75/gallon.
For my propane in my garage I was quoted all kinds of options. I don't own a tank currently. Most places that offered tanks wanted 3 year "contracts" with ~$100/year tank rentals. The initial fill was $1.89/gallon. After that they could not project. Places that would fill a tank I owned wanted closer to $3-4/gallon. The prices were all over. I knew people that delivered for the big companies and they all cautioned me that they are crooks.
Do a bunch of research. Call around. Look around on the web.
With a quick web search I could find 10 suppliers of oil that publish their prices daily on the internet. In a full morning of internet searches I couldn't find 1 company that would do that with propane!
Whatever you do, make sure you are comfortable. You are basically stuck after you decide.
ac
Suburban Propane is the worst of the companies around here. Basically, they will not give you a price for propane until after you sign up. They refuse to release any pricing information to the local media.
They also sell oil and I had bought like 2-3 tank fills from them when I first moved in. They were just the first place I called and I figured it would be about the same price everywhere - like gasoline.. Wow, I was incredibly stupid. It was at least $1/gallon more than anyone else. They also charged about $150 to fill it because I wasn't on the fill list. I was stupid and didn't know I could just use Diesel, so I just paid it.
You definitely have to call around.
They also sell oil and I had bought like 2-3 tank fills from them when I first moved in. They were just the first place I called and I figured it would be about the same price everywhere - like gasoline.. Wow, I was incredibly stupid. It was at least $1/gallon more than anyone else. They also charged about $150 to fill it because I wasn't on the fill list. I was stupid and didn't know I could just use Diesel, so I just paid it.
You definitely have to call around.
Doug B
Well-known member
I switched from oil to propane about 3 years ago. My heating bills are virtually the same,but the propane is much cleaner burning. We've always had a gas kitchen stove,so the switch also cut us down from 2 types of fuel deliveries to just one. And removing the oil storage tank in the basement freed up some floor space!
This will be my first post on this site. I'm in the heat/cool business. When you compare only the front end cost of an oil/gas conversion you don't get the benefit of the technological differences between oil and gas.
Oil is essentially a single stage fuel. When the stat calls your burner is full on, so if your heat loss is 140,000btuh, your burner is going to fire 140k worth. The problem with that is that you are at design condition less than .005% of the heating season. You select your heating appliance to satisfy your heat needs at that "design condition". Actual number of hrs at a particular outside temp are called Bin numbers. Do a google search for your zip code. Your contractor ALWAYS oversizes your heating plant because he doesn't want to hear bad news on the coldest day of the year. So you are oversized by design and selection, which leads to short cycling of your heating equipment, which leads to more starts and stops, parasitic electrical consumption (starts are both what cost the most and what wear out equipment), venting issues and higher service costs. Oil burners are limited by the characteristics of the fuel and the burner technology. As well, there is very little development of technology for the oil heat industry as it gets smaller each year.
For the past 20 yrs there have been modulating gas valves. What is important to you with a modulating gas unit is how low it will go. Longer run time at lower btu puts less stress on the equip, costs less to operate, as it takes not a lot of power to keep a motor running once it starts, and should deliver a more consistent temp...if the distribution system is right.
Yes, you get only 92kbtu out of lp vs the 138kbtu out of oil, but the ability to get a modulating burner vs the oil single stage makes up for the difference, and in my experience then some. As well, a high eff oil unit is about 85% combustion efficiency, vs the 95% for the gas.
The way to think about this is the oil burner will run like you drive at the drag strip. You get the green light and you are all in for the 1/4 mi, you cross the finish line and shut her down and coast to a stop. The modulating gas boiler/furnace will fire as though you are leaving the house in the morning. you give it a little gas to get down the street. Stop when you need to. Accelerate when necessary and when you are up on the highway (real cold outside) you boot it and away you go. Rational control in other words.
Now, there are other options for folks today as well. It isn't always "replace one fuel with another". If you have oil, the way to make oil more efficient is to burn less of it and there is equipment out there that can do that too. But...my wife tells me my lunch is ready, and you can call me a lot of things but you can't call me late for dinner! Whew!
Oil is essentially a single stage fuel. When the stat calls your burner is full on, so if your heat loss is 140,000btuh, your burner is going to fire 140k worth. The problem with that is that you are at design condition less than .005% of the heating season. You select your heating appliance to satisfy your heat needs at that "design condition". Actual number of hrs at a particular outside temp are called Bin numbers. Do a google search for your zip code. Your contractor ALWAYS oversizes your heating plant because he doesn't want to hear bad news on the coldest day of the year. So you are oversized by design and selection, which leads to short cycling of your heating equipment, which leads to more starts and stops, parasitic electrical consumption (starts are both what cost the most and what wear out equipment), venting issues and higher service costs. Oil burners are limited by the characteristics of the fuel and the burner technology. As well, there is very little development of technology for the oil heat industry as it gets smaller each year.
For the past 20 yrs there have been modulating gas valves. What is important to you with a modulating gas unit is how low it will go. Longer run time at lower btu puts less stress on the equip, costs less to operate, as it takes not a lot of power to keep a motor running once it starts, and should deliver a more consistent temp...if the distribution system is right.
Yes, you get only 92kbtu out of lp vs the 138kbtu out of oil, but the ability to get a modulating burner vs the oil single stage makes up for the difference, and in my experience then some. As well, a high eff oil unit is about 85% combustion efficiency, vs the 95% for the gas.
The way to think about this is the oil burner will run like you drive at the drag strip. You get the green light and you are all in for the 1/4 mi, you cross the finish line and shut her down and coast to a stop. The modulating gas boiler/furnace will fire as though you are leaving the house in the morning. you give it a little gas to get down the street. Stop when you need to. Accelerate when necessary and when you are up on the highway (real cold outside) you boot it and away you go. Rational control in other words.
Now, there are other options for folks today as well. It isn't always "replace one fuel with another". If you have oil, the way to make oil more efficient is to burn less of it and there is equipment out there that can do that too. But...my wife tells me my lunch is ready, and you can call me a lot of things but you can't call me late for dinner! Whew!
ptschram
Well-known member
I don't make it to this site often, but every time I do, I find something of interest.
I have spent way too much time obsessing over this very topic as I have a 3100 sq ft shop in a barn that was built before the turn of the century-the 19th!
I have two propane hanging furnaces and a brand new 40K BTU propane furnace that all sit in corners while I heat my shop with a $300 salamander.
In order for me to use gas, I would need to bring in a tank ($), set up an account and have it filled and pay a monthly bill for my heat. I'd also have to put up an exhaust stack. As this is a profit-seeking shop, I'd have to hire a licensed contractor, have permits issued and inspections conducted. While I'm not a fan of unsafe conditions, I'm less of a fan of having to have my entire shop re-wired to accommodate current building codes!
By using diesel fuel to heat my shop, I have the option of buying fuel on the spot market in small quantities that meet my current financial situation, don't need to invest in infrastructure, etc.
As long as un-taxed diesel fuel remains below 150% of the cost of propane, I'm paying less per BTU/unit volume.
In my case, I can't justify the expense of making the change.
(trust me, in a barn built in the 1860s, I have no fears of excessive carbon monoxide, and I do have a monitor!)
I have spent way too much time obsessing over this very topic as I have a 3100 sq ft shop in a barn that was built before the turn of the century-the 19th!
I have two propane hanging furnaces and a brand new 40K BTU propane furnace that all sit in corners while I heat my shop with a $300 salamander.
In order for me to use gas, I would need to bring in a tank ($), set up an account and have it filled and pay a monthly bill for my heat. I'd also have to put up an exhaust stack. As this is a profit-seeking shop, I'd have to hire a licensed contractor, have permits issued and inspections conducted. While I'm not a fan of unsafe conditions, I'm less of a fan of having to have my entire shop re-wired to accommodate current building codes!
By using diesel fuel to heat my shop, I have the option of buying fuel on the spot market in small quantities that meet my current financial situation, don't need to invest in infrastructure, etc.
As long as un-taxed diesel fuel remains below 150% of the cost of propane, I'm paying less per BTU/unit volume.
In my case, I can't justify the expense of making the change.
(trust me, in a barn built in the 1860s, I have no fears of excessive carbon monoxide, and I do have a monitor!)
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boo coo tracks
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2007
- Messages
- 134
Man, I am going to take a beating on this one. The chart I copied from website (not my calcualations.
Price of fuels varies!!!!
Insulation r-value varies!!!!
Geothermal might be 110% efficent but unit cost is high! (below 40% resistance heat isn't cheap)
New windows might get you from R-1 to R-2.5, hell NASA cant get to R-10.
I have a renter who keep cool enough in summer to hang meat & in winter runs around in his shorts.
I prefer to get my data from an independet source rather than a siding & window salesman.
Tracks
Price of fuels varies!!!!
Insulation r-value varies!!!!
Geothermal might be 110% efficent but unit cost is high! (below 40% resistance heat isn't cheap)
New windows might get you from R-1 to R-2.5, hell NASA cant get to R-10.
I have a renter who keep cool enough in summer to hang meat & in winter runs around in his shorts.
I prefer to get my data from an independet source rather than a siding & window salesman.
Tracks