Oil vs Propane Heat

[seanb02]

Hey folks, I'm getting ready to purchase a heater for the shop and am wondering which type would be best for a heat source. Both heating oil and propane are readily available around here, cost per gallon of propane is going to be slightly cheaper than oil will be.

Previously we had a wood stove in here, but between having to deal with keeping it stocked and the fire hazard of using it in an old barn with a makeshift chimney was a recipe for disaster, so I did away with it a few years ago. Last year I installed an oil heater that we had floating around that came from a house originally, so I've already got the oil tank and vent system set up. However towards the end of the season the internal blower fan went out on it, and after tearing into it came to the conclusion that for the ~$800 in parts it wasn't worth repairing since it is pretty old, and is only 40,000 BTU.

There is a second set of doors inside the shop that used to get closed during the winter so as to only have to heat the front portion of the shop ~1000 square feet, but this time around I am shooting for heating the entire 4000 square foot area. Ceiling is about 11', most heat loss will occur in the upwards direction since the shop is built into the hillside and is essentially underground on 3 sides. The flooring into the upstairs storage area is quite thick and tightly fit, but I'm sure there is still significant heat loss occurring in that direction.

So I'm looking at units in the 125,000 BTU range. Does this sound adequate for the application? Back on the subject of propane versus oil, which one is going to realistically be more efficient to use for a space this large? Seems as though the initial cost for an oil unit is at least half again as much as that of a propane unit.

One propane heater I am considering is this one linked below, it has the intake coming in from outside rather than inside the shop, and a stainless steel heat exchanger which from my limited research sounds like it will last longer.
https://www.acwholesalers.com/Modine-HDC125SS0121/p48353.html

Any thoughts on this subject would be greatly appreciated to help me come up with the best solution! Thanks!

 

[Jackfre]

Given your location, I would go with either oil or propane.

 

[seanb02]

Given your location, I would go with either oil or propane.

Sorry, the farm is kind of a broad location... but I'm actually probably not far from you. Grants Pass in Southern Oregon is the actual location. Both heating oil and propane are easily available to us, but we aren't close enough to town for natural gas.

 

[nadogail]

Can you buy a propane fueled heater for what will cost to repair the oil heater?

 

[seanb02]

Can you buy a propane fueled heater for what will cost to repair the oil heater?

No, but repairing the existing unit is out. Just not worth doing for the age and the BTU output. New propane is in the $2500 range new oil seems to be in the $4000 range for ones that are putting out 120,000 BTU.

 

[Steve in UT]

Is there a reason you didn't consider a Modine Effinity 93% unit? A little less $. They even have a Stainless steel version for a little more.

 

[Ron_J]

About 5 years ago we were in the position of needing a new furnace for the house. We had a oil furnace and it was a love hate thing with me. It was a relatively cheap heat source, but I was continually having to deal with nozzles and filters and just the overall dirt.

I decided to replace it with propane and couldn't be happier that I did. For one, the propane takes up so much less space that I was able to convert my furnace room into an archery room for me. (we had an inside oil tank) The propane is much cleaner, and so far, zero maintenance.

Around here, propane is more expensive, but considering our oil furnace was almost 50 years old, the new high efficiency propane has cost us less per year than the old oil.

IMO, oil isn't worth the mess.

 

[Skiff Builder]

Here is a BTU/Gal calc for oil vs propane. Also shown is an efficiency of the heating equipment for a reference. Can use to more accurately price fuel cost in $ /BTU.

91,600 x 98 percent = 89,768 BTU/gallon for propane
140,000 x 90 percent = 126,000 BTU/gallon for heating oil


Here are raw numbers for the two

91,600 BTU/gallon for propane
140,000 BTU/gallon for heating oil]

 

[naturalgas]

$800 to replace a blower on an older furnace seems crazy high. If you can purchase propane for equal the cost of oil that would be the way to go for several reasons.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[TractorJeff]

In my opinion, it should be a consideration of "What do you heat the house with"?
One supplier compatibility.

 

[Showkey]

Northern Tool or others:





They are not stainless..........but...........would certainly last 10-20 years under most conditions.
You can but 3 units for the price on the stainless.



You can buy two 80k ( $469 each) for $950.............

 

[yeldogt]

Have to think about running cost w/ Heating 4000sf .

Your best bet may be a typical propane furnace w/ duct work .. that's a big space. I have 1700 w/o ductwork ..... but, unless it's really well insulated you want something with distribution and more efficient with propane.

A case can be made for keeping oil with a big house and hot water heat ... but even then it's questionable. Installing new .. no way IMO. Oil requires more maintenance that must be done yearly to maintain efficiency .... and that's around 80% ..maybe a tad more.

With propane you should get a 96 furnace that is properly sized.

 

[Showkey]

96% LP 120k furnace $1600 delivered from many suppliers:

https://www.alpinehomeair.com/viewproduct.cfm?productID=453078408


96% units you do have deal with condensate drain and must not ever freeze. Floor space and some duct work might be required.

 

[finn]

My shop had an oil boiler for the in floor radiant when I bought the place.

The Buderus oil boiler was an inefficient, unreliable, expensive, messy, and smelly lump.

I ditched it and went to a compact 95% efficiency wall hung boiler (and a ceiling hung propane heater for fast warmup since I am not out there every day) and never looked back.

I still have to pull out the 250 gallon oil tank to get that floor space back.

 

[Jackfre]

And my apologies as well, but it is difficult to advise with no location. You may have access to oil in your area, but longer term access to tech support for oil will become more and more sketchy. Oil is getting run out. I am a fan of oil heat, but the world has turned. Oil is more attractive in the btu/gal aspect as you get 140,00 btu/gal oil vs. 92,000 in LP. An oil leak can turn your property into a super fund site and has to be considered in the choice, but I still think you are better gas.
I would suggest that you could look at heating the individual areas rather than heating the whole space. Depending upon use, heat the primary area with a smaller unit and deal with the larger space later?

 

[Jackfre]

My shop had an oil boiler for the in floor radiant when I bought the place.

The Buderus oil boiler was an inefficient, unreliable, expensive, messy, and smelly lump.

I ditched it and went to a compact 95% efficiency wall hung boiler (and a ceiling hung propane heater for fast warmup since I am not out there every day) and never looked back.

I still have to pull out the 250 gallon oil tank to get that floor space back.

That is a shame that you had problems with your Buderus. I would take a Buderus oil over any other. The issue with oil is the system lay-out. Actually that doesn't matter manuf and the techs doing the set-up. Buderus is a German Co. Actually it is now Bosch, but Buderus throws more cast iron than all other boiler manuf combined. They are excellent with the right support.

 

[seanb02]

Thanks for all the input so far! Have one of the local propane suppliers coming out on Friday to discuss options with us. But the good news is that they have both 100k and 150k BTU units in stock with prices of $12-1500. Sounds like propane is the way to go at this point in time, will know more once we go over the options with them and discuss tanks and whatnot.

To answer a few of the questions above, I have briefly considered two smaller units rather than just one big one, however the issue is with plumbing both of them to the tank and with creating an exhaust for the second unit. A shop that is mostly underground and is completely concrete walled narrows the options down significantly. Far as a residential style unit and running ductwork, that would be a very difficult thing as well since the shop height is a challenge as it is without lowering the clearance by hanging ductwork up above.

Back on the subject of oil, the storage of that really isn't a concern for us not only since we already have a tank set up on site for the previous heater, but we also have bulk gas and diesel fuel. Everything is above ground, no buried tanks so we don't have to worry too much about accidents and turning the place into an EPA news story. But at this time I am starting to lean away from oil despite the increase in BTU output per gallon. The higher cost of the initial unit is the biggest deterrent, but also the increased maintenance of the unit is a significant factor.

I suspect that actual operational cost will be nearly identical between the oil and the propane units since the lower cost of the propane per gallon should offset the lower BTU output per gallon. Something that I'm not sure on is in regards to the intake source of a propane heater. The lower cost units seem to draw it in from the workspace rather than from outside of the building. How critical is this in a shop environment where solvents are used for cleaning purposes? There will also be painting going on which introduces another flammability factor, but that portion of the story is in another thread on here since I am attempting to set it up the right way so it has proper ventilation and shouldn't be an issue with the heating of the shop.

 

[finn]

Thanks for all the input so far! Have one of the local propane suppliers coming out on Friday to discuss options with us. But the good news is that they have both 100k and 150k BTU units in stock with prices of $12-1500. Sounds like propane is the way to go at this point in time, will know more once we go over the options with them and discuss tanks and whatnot.

To answer a few of the questions above, I have briefly considered two smaller units rather than just one big one, however the issue is with plumbing both of them to the tank and with creating an exhaust for the second unit. A shop that is mostly underground and is completely concrete walled narrows the options down significantly. Far as a residential style unit and running ductwork, that would be a very difficult thing as well since the shop height is a challenge as it is without lowering the clearance by hanging ductwork up above.

Back on the subject of oil, the storage of that really isn't a concern for us not only since we already have a tank set up on site for the previous heater, but we also have bulk gas and diesel fuel. Everything is above ground, no buried tanks so we don't have to worry too much about accidents and turning the place into an EPA news story. But at this time I am starting to lean away from oil despite the increase in BTU output per gallon. The higher cost of the initial unit is the biggest deterrent, but also the increased maintenance of the unit is a significant factor.

I suspect that actual operational cost will be nearly identical between the oil and the propane units since the lower cost of the propane per gallon should offset the lower BTU output per gallon. Something that I'm not sure on is in regards to the intake source of a propane heater. The lower cost units seem to draw it in from the workspace rather than from outside of the building. How critical is this in a shop environment where solvents are used for cleaning purposes? There will also be painting going on which introduces another flammability factor, but that portion of the story is in another thread on here since I am attempting to set it up the right way so it has proper ventilation and shouldn't be an issue with the heating of the shop.

In my case, as stater, I have in floor as da boiler. The new high efficiency boiler has external air supply and a pvc exhaust vent.

That replaced a 6 or 8” stainless double walled pipe.

When talking to the hvac guy, I told him that, on a BYU per dollar basis, my long term observation was that propane and oil tracked pretty well.

He agreed.

The long term propane benefit is higher efficiency boilers, lower maintenance costs, ne smell, and cleaner handling.

The final one is package size. I reclaimed the boiler room that the oil dragon occupied for use as a tool room, and the oil tank will become blast cabinet space.


For the other poster, I couldn’t give the Buderis away. Absolutely no market for oil equipment, no matter what brand or condition. I hauled it to the scrapyard.

Also, most hvac outfits local to me no longer service oil equipment. They don’t teach it to the new technicians Because there’s no demand here, and the few older technicians left are aging out of the trade.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Unvented propane heater release a LOT of moisture into the air.

 

[Steve in UT]

Unvented propane heater release a LOT of moisture into the air.

Pretty sure noone is talking unvented on this feed.

 

[seanb02]

Unvented isn't even a remote consideration. I tried a large torpedo heater once and made myself sick due to the lack of proper ventilation. Never again.

 

[Steve in UT]

Unvented isn't even a remote consideration. I tried a large torpedo heater once and made myself sick due to the lack of proper ventilation. Never again.

And they rust your guns and tools

 

[Jlbc212]

A propane or natural gas heater requires almost no maintenance. An oil fired heater will require regular maintenance to perform at maximum efficiency. I'd go with propane if natural gas isn't available, but with propane I'd also install a gas detection device with alarm near the floor.

 

[Jackfre]

You should discuss with the LP company your activities in the space. Sealed combustion in a shop space, any place really is highly desirable. It is a safety issue, but also running clean on the combustion side will reduce service issues with the equipment.