OK ... Sears just pissed me off ...

[Stuey]

I just have no use for Sears or the way they market their tools.

A tool is not supposed be medium to low quality at a bargain; it's supposed to be high quality and expensive because it costs money to make a high quality tool. You're supposed to work hard for the high cost of buying the high quality tool and when you do, you're proud of yourself for earning the money to pay for the tool and you feel well assured that you spent the money wisely. That's what it's all about.

A good tool is one that is durable and one that will outlast a person's use for it. For those who use their tools daily, higher-end brands are usually the better option. For non-pros, a lower-cost tool may be more suitable.

They did a study where they gave people cheap wine and said it was a very expensive wine, and the tasters praised it and commented that it tasted very good. Given the same wine but informed of the real price of the "different wine", the same tasters commented of the wine's poor fragrance and taste. Could it be that some of those "proud" of their Snap-On tools have a similar price must = quality bias?

You're not supposed to work hard for the high cost of a quality tool. You're supposed to use a high quality tool in your hard work. Tools are nothing more than the means to complete tasks or projects. Indeed there are folk that enjoy the collecting of tools, and you seem to be one such fellow. But in that case, it is not the "high quality" that drives the collector, but the value, beauty, and cost of such an acquisition.

Tell me, if by going with Snap-On or similar one is getting a tool of superior quality, what of the cases where the product is a rebadge. Is an $80 tap and die set better quality because Snap-On sells it for $150 or more?

What of the folks who do not earn money from their use of tools. A low or medium quality or even an affordable high quality tool is better suited. By all means I am for high quality tools, but for the price of one high quality Snap-On tool, I can get several medium or high quality tools, even from made-in-USA brands.

Sears provides one of the best selections for hobbyists and some pros. Home Depot and Lowes don't have large mechanics tool sections, and their hand tool sections are sometimes lacking. What's left then, if you need a tool in a pinch or want to choose one first-hand? Target? Walmart? Sears' policies are changing, but it's just about all that's left in the brick and mortar retail world for consumers.

Sure there are reasons to go with boutique level tools, but there are also scenarios lower level brands are better choices.

 

[rsanter]

many tools from snap on are a higher quality than the average tool out there. the only reason I have a SO tap and die set is that I got it used for a great price.
the same tool is that same tool no matter whos name is on it or where you get it from.

the other thing we get with out tools is the service. sears service has been going down hill in recent years and those of us that have made the investment into the craftsman name feel betrayed by that. it is the fault of sears/Kmart management that they are ******* the name away

bob

 

[Merkava_4]

Tell me, if by going with Snap-On or similar one is getting a tool of superior quality, what of the cases where the product is a rebadge. Is an $80 tap and die set better quality because Snap-On sells it for $150 or more?

I don't buy rebadged tools if I can help it, but sometimes the rebadged tool is the same price as the original or less - sometimes.

There used to be a time in the U.S.A. that you couldn't buy a low quality tool if you tried; they didn't exist. About 30 years ago or more, people used to take tools seriously; both the manufacturer and the customer. There wasn't no such thing as an inferior low quality Chinese tool in this country because we had an import ban against China right after the Korean war started; and before 1950, all they knew how to do was grow rice and make ceramic tea cups.

 

[wilbilt]

Flaking chrome that may cut or cause injury is typically a warranty issue with most reputable tool companies.

Exactly. My former SO dealer told me that the chrome was not warrantied for wearing off, but was warrantied against chipping or flaking.

He told me this when I bought a set of wrenches 1/4" - 1" plus a 1 1/16" and 1 1/8" The two larger wrenches were $100 by themselves.

Less than a year later, the chrome was chipping off the open end of the 1 1/8", and he refused to replace it.

That wrench ended my relationship with Snap-On forever. I still have it.

 

[ImportTuner]

I don't buy rebadged tools if I can help it, but sometimes the rebadged tool is the same price as the original or less - sometimes.

There used to be a time in the U.S.A. that you couldn't buy a low quality tool if you tried; they didn't exist. About 30 years ago or more, people used to take tools seriously; both the manufacturer and the customer. There wasn't no such thing as an inferior low quality Chinese tool in this country because we had an import ban against China right after the Korean war started; and before 1950, all they knew how to do was grow rice and make ceramic tea cups.

Between the 1950's and until late 1960's, you never wanted to buy any tool made in Japan; they were inexpensive and broke if you looked at it wrong (almost). Today, the Japanese stuff are excellent, so probably in ten years, the stuff made in China will be quality items and stuff made in USA may not be because we outsourced all our knowledge/manufacturing ...

 

[MarkH]

"the stuff made in China will be quality items and stuff made in USA may not be"

And just like now quality will be at a cost, with currency differences and transport costs, etc, we may end up dreaming of how cheap Snap On was when quality was made in the USA. My guess based on what happened with Japanese tools, European tools all that I have used is they make quality, but the price went up more than I can afford. So I hope we keep something going here, or we will really end up paying.

 

[ImportTuner]

Well, got a phone call from a manager (Julio) in the home department of Sears who said he was sorry about the way I was treated and to bring the items down for replacement when I get a chance. It seems that Sears Holding Company still cares about their customers ... even though store employees could care less ...

 

[billymade]

Cool, glad to hear it; that is what customer relations is for and the call from the store manager is the correct follow through on your customer service complaint! I'm sorry you had to go through this process but in the end it worked out!

 

[eschoendorff]

Most customers have been able to resolve their problems through customer relations and even brought back the emailed responses to the store; it shouldn't be this way but sometimes customers that don't get help have to take that next "extra" step. Management would approve the replacement after seeing the emailed response on the spot and the situation was resolved.

This is ridiculous. As Sears customer, I shouldn't need to go the extra step. That's why I paid for the tools in the first place - they came with a great warranty.

At the risk of ******* some people off here, most of the draw on Craftsman tools is that famous warranty. Without that, Craftsman tools are no better than any other tools out there. Hell, the GearWrench stuff coming out of Taiwan and China has Craftsman quality beat many times. Thoseeraised panel wrenches are an embarrassment. Just look at the photo on theecover of teh Craftsman calendar.

The Craftsman Pro stuff is generally worth the $$$, but even the that warranty is what I am paying for.

 

[billymade]

I totally agree with you; I'm just trying to help dealing with the pathetic reality of the sears customer service situation! One way is through the customer relations # and in this case, it worked out well. You milage may vary...

 

[Lugg_Nutt]

snap on does not warranty chrome issues

 

[Stuey]

I totally agree with you; I'm just trying help to deal with the pathetic reality of the sears customer service situation! One way is through the customer relations # and in this case, it worked out well. You milage may vary...

Don't worry, your insight and advice is very welcome. It's nice to hear the perspective of an insider every now and then!

 

[64merc]

Wow, I'm impressed that they actually came through for you. I hope you get to speak to the same person who denied you the exchange. I'd like to see their face.

I've had a couple of instances where that customer relations number would have come in handy. I wrote it down for future reference.

 

[reversegear]

Well, got a phone call from a manager (Julio) in the home department of Sears who said he was sorry about the way I was treated and to bring the items down for replacement when I get a chance. It seems that Sears Holding Company still cares about their customers ... even though store employees could care less ...

Not to dogpile on everyone else, but peeling chrome is a serious quality (and safety) issue.

ImportTuner, could I ask you to post pics of the two tools you tried to warranty? I'd like to see them for *ahem* market research reasons, but it might be good if everyone could see them so we're all on the same page as to the extent of the problem.

 

[kythri]

The real problem is that exchanges of tools cut into the profit margins of the store, and some managers, in an effort to keep the margins high, will decline to make warranty adjustments, even if they are warranted. Sears has allowed the individual store managers the right to interpret warranty claims, and hasn't set a uniform standard that they must follow. In the past, they didn't allow this type of control on a local basis, and all stores had to play by the same rules. Back then, store managers were paid without regard to store performance. Now, the store managers pay is based on store profit performance, so there is an incentive for the store not to take back items under the warranty.

I don't really see how "ever fails to give complete satisfaction" can be interpreted multiple ways.

Granted, I've never had a warranty issue at any of my local Sears, but if I had someone refusing warranty, I'd grab the new item off the shelf and show them the statement.

I'm curious what their response to that would be...

 

[kythri]

I just have no use for Sears or the way they market their tools.

A tool is not supposed be medium to low quality at a bargain; it's supposed to be high quality and expensive because it costs money to make a high quality tool. You're supposed to work hard for the high cost of buying the high quality tool and when you do, you're proud of yourself for earning the money to pay for the tool and you feel well assured that you spent the money wisely. That's what it's all about.

So, explain why avoid paying retail by shopping for Snap-On via eBay?

I tell you what, if I had a shop full of expensive tools, a collection of which costs more than both of my cars, I wouldn't feel proud - I'd feel like a goddamned ***** for buying into the hype, and spending my money foolishly.

It's not about feeling all smug from buying Gucci-gear tools. It's about buying what you need, and what you want.

You don't like Sears because they don't drive a truck around the neighborhood, selling tools like a dealer selling crack, and they don't prostitute themselves at the local auto repair facilities. Great reason to dislike them.

 

[kythri]

Thoseeraised panel wrenches are an embarrassment. Just look at the photo on theecover of teh Craftsman calendar.

I dunno, man.

What you see as unintended lack of quality, I see as an intentional styling and product dress.

Don't get me wrong - shiny full-polish stuff is nice, but I like the big meaty raised-panel stuff with it's "non-smooth" finish.

Why pay more for a bunch of useless finish work?

 

[SocketDeviler]

I just exchanged a Craftsman 13/16 deep socket. The chrome around both ends had chipped off. I did as was suggested here (thank you) and brought a replacement to the register. The kid ringing me up turned to his manager (or at least older employee) and asked if chipped chrome qualified for a return, without missing a beat the man said, "absolutely." And that was that.

On the minus side I picked up a 21-Pc Craftsman drill bit set for $12.50 (1/2 sale). It was not 'till I got home that I saw that the set was made in China. Looks like a good set for the money but I'm not so sure I would have bought it had I read that at the store.

Drill Bit Set:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00966020000P

Also bought this bag set for $7.50 (1/2 off sale). The bags were also made in China. Then again, most are.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00940558000P?keyword=40558&sLevel=0

 

[jay50]

So, explain why avoid paying retail by shopping for Snap-On via eBay?

I tell you what, if I had a shop full of expensive tools, a collection of which costs more than both of my cars, I wouldn't feel proud - I'd feel like a goddamned ***** for buying into the hype, and spending my money foolishly.

It's not about feeling all smug from buying Gucci-gear tools. It's about buying what you need, and what you want.

You don't like Sears because they don't drive a truck around the neighborhood, selling tools like a dealer selling crack, and they don't prostitute themselves at the local auto repair facilities. Great reason to dislike them.

 

[wilbilt]

You don't like Sears because they don't drive a truck around the neighborhood, selling tools like a dealer selling crack, and they don't prostitute themselves at the local auto repair facilities. Great reason to dislike them.

I don't like them because they don't honor the terms of their warranty.

Pretty simple, huh?

 

[billymade]

AFAIK all the drill bits are made in china; pretty much everything except the hand tools!