Old 2 speed Breast Drill

[Tostal]

I found this old 2 speed Breast Drill. There's no makers name/numbers anywhere that I can see. But it looks similar to early Miller Falls breast drills I've seen while searching the internet. It has a number of unusual features - 3 position drive handle length, a swivelling plate to hold the drive gear spindle in place, a pinion lock and a spirit level. Can anyone identify it?

T~

 

[RTM]

Did you look here? Probably the most complete MF site.

http://oldtoolheaven.com/breast_drills/breast_drill1.htm

I’m guessing #12 after 1897.

 

[Tostal]

Yeah, you might be correct.

That was actually one of the websites I found which gave me the idea that it was probably a Miller Falls.

The general appearance matches mine but I could find an image that included all the features I mentioned/showed in post#1, but then again the website doesn't show images of every year's models. They sure made a lot of changes/improvements over a short time frame - must have been trying to stay ahead of the competition.

I'll probably give it a clean up, measure the drive gear and open up the chuck to see which type it is, might narrow it down this way.

Thanks for your help.

T~

 

[RTM]

Next, you go here, and see if it matches

https://archive.org/details/MillersFallsCoCatalogueBPocketEdition/page/n13/mode/2up


If that fails, you brute force it here.

https://archive.org/details/internationaltoolcataloglibrary?and[]=millers+Falls&sin=&sort=-date

 

[pfaustus]

MF usually had its name stamped in very small letters on the chuck, typically in the gaps between the circles of knurling. Often the writing is in very small type and difficult to see without a magnifying glass even after cleaning.

 

[Made in USA]

IME, a significant portion of MF tools are lightly, and at times incompletely, stamped with their logo. The stamp itself can range from the full triangular logo to a simple MF Co.

As pfaustus states above, one place to look is on the chuck. Another common location is on the flat bar that attaches the drive handle to the main gear. It would surprise me if you do not find some sort of logo or ID stamp buried under the rust on that flat bar between the drive handle and the elongated slot.

0000 steel wool or a careful application of a small wire wheel in a dremel should remove the rust to let you see if the mark is there.

 

[laser3kw]

I am afraid to search for "breast drill"

 

[Tostal]

Did you look here? Probably the most complete MF site.

http://oldtoolheaven.com/breast_drills/breast_drill1.htm

I’m guessing #12 after 1897.

Next, you go here, and see if it matches

https://archive.org/details/MillersFallsCoCatalogueBPocketEdition/page/n13/mode/2up


If that fails, you brute force it here.

https://archive.org/details/internationaltoolcataloglibrary?and[]=millers+Falls&sin=&sort=-date

I went through all of the above, every page (phew!). I didn't find any picture that exactly matched my drill, some were close but none had the swivelling lock plate for the drive gear, nor the pinion locking 3/4 of a circle wheel to lock the chuck (vintage version of the modern 'chuck-lock button'?). It seems that RTM's suggestion that what I have is a Model #12 might be correct but it'd be nice to find the exact model and year of manufacture.

Thanks for the links

T~

 

[Tostal]

MF usually had its name stamped in very small letters on the chuck, typically in the gaps between the circles of knurling. Often the writing is in very small type and difficult to see without a magnifying glass even after cleaning.

IME, a significant portion of MF tools are lightly, and at times incompletely, stamped with their logo. The stamp itself can range from the full triangular logo to a simple MF Co.

As pfaustus states above, one place to look is on the chuck. Another common location is on the flat bar that attaches the drive handle to the main gear. It would surprise me if you do not find some sort of logo or ID stamp buried under the rust on that flat bar between the drive handle and the elongated slot.

0000 steel wool or a careful application of a small wire wheel in a dremel should remove the rust to let you see if the mark is there.

I'll try gently cleaning the above areas and report back if I find any markings.

Thanks for the information on where to check for markings.

T~

 

[RTM]

some were close but none had the swivelling lock plate for the drive gear, nor the pinion locking 3/4 of a circle wheel to lock the chuck (vintage version of the modern 'chuck-lock button'?
T~

The chuck lock and your picture of the pinion finally made sense. Could not resolve it, will look more later.

Remember, it may not be a MF, so don’t lock in too hard.

 

[RTM]

This 012 seems to have the lock, mentioned but not shown

https://archive.org/details/MillersFallsCatalogueNoH/page/n51/mode/2up

 

[mikeswrenches]

As someone else pointed out, you should find the name under the rust on the flat part of the handle. I have a drill with a lock like on the OP's drill and also one with the swivel that holds the drive gear shaft.

I’ll dig thru my pile of drills In the morning and see if I can find them.

It could also be J S Fray or Goodell-Pratt, although I also lean towards M-F.

 

[mikeswrenches]

It looks like I leaned in the wrong direction. It is a John S Fray product. While my Fray example only has the lock(2nd picture), a Stanley example I have has the "S" shaped axle lock. Keep in mind that Stanley bought the Fray company so would have acquired any patents or designs that Fray held.

While I didn’t find any Fray or assigned patents, I did find a drill on the Bay that has both the lock and the "S" shaped keeper. The fourth picture shows this. The fifth picture is of the handle of that drill.

From my experience, the Fray breast drills are not common. Of the 40 or so drills I have only one is a Fray.

 

[RTM]

I have a friend w a 1911 Fray catalog, Asked him for an image of this drill.

Nothing in my library, or in the International Tool Catalog at Archive.org

 

[Tostal]

Wow, Mike, what an amazing collection!
Did you restore all of them or were you lucky enough to find them in such great condition, some even look new.

Unfortunately mine looks to have hard a hard life and is well-used, lots of wear in the various spindles and quite a bit on the gears. I'll probably just give it a clean up, repaint in suitable color/s, lube it and call it a day (can't get any re-plating done over here ), might have to see if I can import a home-plating kit after the C-19 lockdown.

Any suggestions as regards appropriate color/s to re-finish it if it is a John S. Fray?

Thanks for all your efforts in trying to identify the breast drill I have.

When RTM suggested it might be a Miller Falls, I was amazed that it had found it's way over to little ol' Ireland. Maybe a returning Irish Emigrant brought it back with him from the USA, who knows? The only other Miller Falls tool I've found was an old ball pein (I think you guys call them ball peen) hammer that someone was about to toss in the thrash - couldn't believe it when I brushed off some of the rust and saw the name. Now it's like it might be something even rarer...

Many thanks,

T~

 

[Tostal]

I have a friend w a 1911 Fray catalog, Asked him for an image of this drill.

Nothing in my library, or in the International Tool Catalog at Archive.org

Thanks for all your efforts in trying to identify my old breast drill. I really thought we were onto something searching through the Miller Falls archives, as so many of the features seemed to match, felt it was just a matter of finding illustrations somewhere else of drills not already viewed to find the exact model number and year of production. Just goes to show. One of the things that kept bugging me was there was frequent mention of M-F using an improved chuck, my chuck didn't match either the original or the improved version.

If your friend can find the correct image, I'd be both impressed and grateful, would love to be able to definitely identify this old drill for posterity.

Much appreciated,

T~

 

[RTM]

Try here, starting at p27. I don’t see an exact match, but the lock is right on several. (Thanks Brian)

http://zengrain.com/library/catalogs/Fray_Catalogue-No26_1911_small_OCR.pdf

Here is a slightly later Stanley, with the S thing, but no swivel lock.

https://archive.org/details/StanleyToolsCatalogueNo341915/page/n59/mode/2up

Guess I need to look up the guy date for Fray. Hmm, 1909

 

[mikeswrenches]

Tostal, Based on RTM's last post, and looking closely at the picture shown of the Stanley no. 731 I was wrong about the drill being a Fray.

The thing that bothered me was the lack of the level on the Fray. The Stanley has all the features that are on Tostal's drill. The level, the lock, and the "S" shaped keeper. You can see all three in the picture.

 

[RTM]

Better man than I, I didn’t see the lock in the text, didn’t think to zoom in on the pic.

 

[mikeswrenches]

RTM, The old saying that comes to mind is that “two heads are better than one”.

I should have posted the text also. I corrected that. By the way, good research.

 

[Tostal]

Great detective work RTM and Mike,

So, finally, it seems what I have is a Stanley No. 731 Breast Drill from circa 1915.

I did do a bit of cleaning in the areas suggested but didn't find any markings/numbers.

So I'm very grateful to you guys for identifying the make, model and year of manufacture for me.

Your efforts are much appreciated, thank you

T~

 

[RTM]

Latch, lock, same thing, but The quick scanning eyes miss one. Glad I could enable the search, most of the fun of being here.

 

[WisJim]

The latch that locked the gear was carried over from Fray by Stanley when they bought out Fray (around 1920) and produced the Fray tools under the Stanley name.

 

[Tostal]

The latch that locked the gear was carried over from Fray by Stanley when they bought out Fray (around 1920) and produced the Fray tools under the Stanley name.

Thanks for this additional bit of information.

Tostal.

 

[Copymutt]

Found this 2 speed minus the shoulder and shaft. Improvised, back in business.

 

[bonneyman]

I am afraid to search for "breast drill"

I made a little tool and named it a "nut grabber". Several people told me maybe I'd want to call it something else. So it became "vise on a stick".

 

[Leviton]

... Of the 40 or so drills I have...

Mikeswrenches, or anyone else who might have one, I'm trying to find someone with a Millers Falls #118 breast drill. I have an old family drill I am going to restore, but it is missing the lower, stationary, wood handle. I'd like to get the handle measurements from someone who has that handle one and try to make one. I've been looking for a while for cheap rusty old drills that might have a handle that would fit but I've not had much luck.

 

[Tostal]

Mikeswrenches, or anyone else who might have one, I'm trying to find someone with a Millers Falls #118 breast drill. I have an old family drill I am going to restore, but it is missing the lower, stationary, wood handle. I'd like to get the handle measurements from someone who has that handle one and try to make one. I've been looking for a while for cheap rusty old drills that might have a handle that would fit but I've not had much luck.

Wouldn't the lower fixed wood handle simply be the same size/shape/finish as the moving handle, except with the addition of a suitable threaded stub to attach it to the drill?

Tostal.

 

[toolmiser]

I'll take a look and see if I have that one.

 

[toolmiser]

I did go luck, but have a 120, but no 118. I see there are a couple for sale on ebay. How about asking if they would give you the measurements? It doesn't cost anything to ask. I thing my 120 has a "screw in " handle (could be wrong), but I do have at least one other one that has the quick release if you need a picture of the piece the handle attaches to.

 

[Leviton]

I did go luck, but have a 120, but no 118. I see there are a couple for sale on ebay. How about asking if they would give you the measurements? It doesn't cost anything to ask. I thing my 120 has a "screw in " handle (could be wrong), but I do have at least one other one that has the quick release if you need a picture of the piece the handle attaches to.

Thanks for looking toolmiser! From various catalogs, it looks like the 118 and the 120 are the same except for the chuck and maybe the finish, so the handle should be the same.

Mine has the standard screw-in handle with 3/8" - 16 threads. If you could measure the handle length and maybe a couple diameters of the handle I'd really appreciate it. Thank you.

 

[toolmiser]

The side handle is identical to the crank handle (wood part). Threads are the same as you stated. I have two of these and they are the same dimensions.

Good luck with your restoration.

If there are any dimensions I missed or you can't read let me know. Sorry it took so long for the reply.

 

[Leviton]

The side handle is identical to the crank handle (wood part). Threads are the same as you stated. I have two of these and they are the same dimensions.

Good luck with your restoration.

If there are any dimensions I missed or you can't read let me know. Sorry it took so long for the reply.

Excellent, toolmiser! This is more than I could have asked for. Thank you very much.
Now I get to test my manufacturing skills. Not sure what I am going to do about the ferrule.
Thank you again.

 

[toolmiser]

I've seen Ferrules sold online, but not sure where. Try some of the woodworking stores. Someone here might have some good ideas.

 

[RTM]

Here is one place. Other folks use Brass pipe fittings and turn them down on the lathe.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/workshop/tool-maintenance/30021-brass-ferrules

 

[Half-fast eddie]

Just bought this MF drill from Habitat Restore. The name is lightly stamped on the smooth part of the chuck, unfortunately it’s either more lightly stamped or worn where it used to give the model number.
The conversation went like this:
You going to buy that?
Yep.
Why?
Cuz I don’t have one.
You ever going to use it?
Probably not.
What am I supposed to do with all the tools when you die?