Old building advice

[ny1]

If it's ok I'd like to ask all of you for some advice and input. I found this old building in a town that I like by accident. For some wierd reason I just love the thing. The lot is small and it needs some work. Somethings about the septic and foundation make me a nervous, and in my opinion it's over priced.

It's 24x96 the front 36 feet are living quarters and the back 60 is open for shop space. Here are some pictures. The color contrast is a bit heavy on the green on three of them. Anyone have any initial thoughts?

 

[klaw]

Pretty cool

 

[Stuart in MN]

Very attractive building - it appears to be an old train depot. I like it, but make sure there aren't any expensive problems with the septic or foundation.

 

[Mickey O]

Cool, buy it, give it to me, I'll post pics when I finish it off.

 

[ny1]

It is a old train depot. It's in a residential area which is nice. The septic tank sits right under the front deck and the leach field if there even is one is under the road. It's been lived in by a single person and a couple for probably 20 years without any problems, and they used a old shool washing machine.

The foundation is a older stone foundation. It needs to be repointed. The crawl space is wet and needs some help. The brick walls are straight and true. I pulled a string along the wall spaced off with two scraps of 1x1 pine and it's amazing how straight it is. It doesn't seem to have moved a bit from when they built it in 1887. The slate roof and trusses are solid.There's a rail trail across the street that leads right into town.

 

[930dreamer]

Very cool depot indeed, I don't know much about stone foundations, other than I wouldn't want to replace it. How are the interior floors for level?

 

[1930artdeco]

As long as the structure is sound everything else can be fixed relatively inexpensively. I say go for it that would be a cool place to live. Plus, you can get up, and go right to the shop about 25 ft. away!!!

Mike

 

[Stuart in MN]

If it's in a residential area, is there city sewer available? It may be time to hook into it, if possible. There may be county or city records to indicate just what kind of system is in place now, but that's just a guess.

 

[sublimate]

Looks cool:
http://www.homesandland.com/listingslideshow.cfm?listingid=18021777

 

[BLUBAYOU]

I think it's awesome. If the price were right, I'd love to work with something like that.

 

[Falcon67]

Sweet building. I would hit the building department, etc up at the City to try and pre-discover any code or other issues that may become your problems at the time of sale. I'd want to be on city sewer too - I can't imagine that they would be very thrilled about a leach field under a street anyway.

 

[1jjpop]

I can think of a lot of reasons to buy it . to store things ,hang out place & many other things to do with it. IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT ......

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

I agree with everyone else: That is an OUTSTANDING building. SOunds like its pretty solid too.

Check local lists of histroical places to see if it is already listed or if someone has proposed it. That can be a good thing but it also can be a very limiting thing, depnding what you might want to do to it. Personally, Iid restore the exterior to original as much as possible. And I think I'd only make as many changes inside as is necessary to have a comfortable living space. Those open beans overhead are killer beautiful.

PLEASE keep posting photos as the work progresses.

 

[Al Bundy]

I agree with everyone that it's a cool building. You said you thought it was overpriced but didn't tell us how much it is.

 

[MoparTrucks]

I would think NY would have some pretty strict regulations about Lead based paint, asbestos, lead water pipes and Radon testing prior to occupancy so you would want to check that out. Other than that it is a cool old building and i would go for something like that.

 

[ny1]

It's listed at 97,500. They bought it from the previous owners in July of 2010 for 35k. From what I can see they replaced about 35 pieces of slate on the roof, replaced about a 16x24 section of rotted floor, painted the apartment + changed the sump pump. Spending maybe 10k at best. The floor repairs were done well however they did not address the cause of the problem so it will fail again in the future. The sump pump still doesn't sit in a proper pit so it needs to he redone also. Any thoughts on price? I'm thinking low to mid 70's. Is it unreasonable to think this?

 

[64dragnwagon]

I would throw a number out to them and see if they bite. I don't know the market there but if it's listed at 97K I wouldn't be surprised if the would take 60-70K, especially if they only have about 50K in it. The market is soft everywhere now plus there is a pretty limited pool of buyers for a property like that. How long has it been on the market and how long did it take to sell the last time?

 

[rustyjames]

I would make sure it has an environmental clean bill of health. I know it's common for the sides of train tracks to be laden with contaminates.

 

[PAToyota]

It's listed at 97,500. They bought it from the previous owners in July of 2010 for 35k. From what I can see they replaced about 35 pieces of slate on the roof, replaced about a 16x24 section of rotted floor, painted the apartment + changed the sump pump. Spending maybe 10k at best. The floor repairs were done well however they did not address the cause of the problem so it will fail again in the future. The sump pump still doesn't sit in a proper pit so it needs to he redone also.

Sounds like they watched a few too many of those "Flip this House" type shows...

I've dealt with a few situations like that and ended up spending double what they spent to rip everything they did back out and redo it correctly... Downside is that it is a unique structure. Chances are you're only going to have one train depot in town. So there is some value right there. If it was anything else, I'd recommend you keep looking. But I'd love to have a train depot - or a fire station - or an old church. Just something unique like that. If you have any associations with an engineer or architect who'd be willing to walk through the place with you and the sellers and point out the stuff - ok, that was replaced, but was done incorrectly and will need to be redone, etc - that might put them in a more negotiable mood...

As I say, I'll guarantee that they bought into the "flip this house and double your money" ploy. I happened to see in the real estate listings that my ex-wife tried it. Bought the house for $75K after our divorce. Owned it ten years and "fixed it up." Tried to sell it for $160K. After having it on the market for over two years I see it finally sold for $95K.

 

[PETE14]

Definitly cool. You mentioned a huge shop space, which is great, but from looking at the pics, I don't see any garage doors at ground level....are there any?

Pete

 

[1948]

thats a cool place! be real neat to live there. wonder if anyone has any old pictures of it as a train station or whatever it was.

 

[Mickey O]

It's listed at 97,500. They bought it from the previous owners in July of 2010 for 35k. From what I can see they replaced about 35 pieces of slate on the roof, replaced about a 16x24 section of rotted floor, painted the apartment + changed the sump pump. Spending maybe 10k at best. The floor repairs were done well however they did not address the cause of the problem so it will fail again in the future. The sump pump still doesn't sit in a proper pit so it needs to he redone also. Any thoughts on price? I'm thinking low to mid 70's. Is it unreasonable to think this?

That price does seem high for what they paid for it not all that long ago and unless the area is in high demand and add in the fact that that building won't appeal to a lot of people I don't see them getting 97,500. Nor do I see an appraiser valuing the place that high and if he doesn't, unless you're paying cash or putting down a substantial down payment, no bank will give you a loan on it. Plus the more you pay the higher the property taxes. Make a reasonable offer and be prepared to walk, go under what you think is reasonable and make one counter offer and let them know it's your last. If it doesn't work out keep an eye on it as the price is lowered.

 

[930dreamer]

If you factor in the new repairs that need to be repaired again, there should be room to negotiate?

 

[Mudbone]

Since it has a Homes and Land vid, I am guessing that the sellers have an agent. Don't be bashful about asking him or her for the comps they ran to price the house. If you get them then you get an idea of where they are coming from. You also can use them to pick apart their justificaion for that price. For example if they used price per sqft you can find out what they were comparing it to. IE they should not have used price per sqft for new construction in your area. However, it's also possible that the agent didn't run comps, (because comping a 125 year old depot is nearly impossible), and just went with what the sellers wanted which they probably pulled from their nether regions.

Another piece of info you need is the days on the market. This will give you an idea of how frustrated or market weary the sellers might be. Look and see if you can find the listing online to get this info. Look on Realtor.com, Trula, Zillow, etc. However, you might need to hire a buyers agent to get that from the MLS in your area. Make sure they don't only look at the current days on the market but the total history. In many MLSes, the DOM is reset if the property is off the market for 30 days or if the sellers switch buyers.
Don't worry about insulting the sellers with a low price. Especially if there is a lot of repairs that need to be done.

 

[ny1]

Thanks to everyone for the input. As far as I can tell it's been on the market since Febuary of 2012 with no takers. I don't think it would appraise at 97,500 either. As much as I like it I wont over pay for it.

 

[ny1]

Definitly cool. You mentioned a huge shop space, which is great, but from looking at the pics, I don't see any garage doors at ground level....are there any?

Pete

There are the 4 doors that you see in the back and that's it. I'm pretty much a motorcycle person so it would work for me. The high ones on the right side of the building are pretty much pick up bed level. A small deck off of one would make a pretty neat loading dock. Ramps are getting old with bad knees.

 

[ny1]

Very cool depot indeed, I don't know much about stone foundations, other than I wouldn't want to replace it. How are the interior floors for level?

The floors are level. The draw back is that they are wood. I have a full size Bridgeport, a 4 spindle drill press on a production table some other pretty darn heavy stuff.

I guess I'd have to figure out where to put that stuff remove those sections of the floor, pour a footer and then a concrete base for the equiptment. The top of the concrete would be level with the finished height of the floor. I can form it and it's not a deep crawl space so it would only be 5 or 6 yards of concrete for everything. Just a bunch of work.

This would leave the rest of the floor wood. Kind of like Nimrods place.

 

[kert]

If city sewer isn't available and you don't have another place for a leech field, I'd run like hell! Leech field under the street is wrong on too many levels.

 

[woodrail]

The architecture firm I worked for resorted a very similar building into a community meeting space a few years ago.

Obviously this was a commercial effort, but the owners sunk a TON of money into it before we even started on the interior. We did foundation work and a mud slab.

Great building, but give serious thought about the work you will have ahead of you.

 

[brownbagg]

i wonder how much abesto removal will cost?

 

[RivennHewn]

Talk about regional differences.

That building would be in the 400K range in my neck O' the woods.

If you have the funds, and the temperament for surprises, I'd say go!

 

[woodrail]

In "my neck", this would be in the $40,000 range!

If this will be used for private residential and conventionally financed, you should not have to remove asbestos or lead paint. Obviously check you local ordinances. They may have "point of sale" items (expensive items).


Same goes for "historical" sites stuff. Many folks have the idea that these designation prevent you from doing things. In truth, the building is yours. You can tear it down or paint it purple. You will lose your designation though. Cedar Point in Sandusky elected to do just that with Hotel Breakers. They needed to add on, and money was more important than the designation.

 

[Al Bundy]

It's listed at 97,500. They bought it from the previous owners in July of 2010 for 35k. From what I can see they replaced about 35 pieces of slate on the roof, replaced about a 16x24 section of rotted floor, painted the apartment + changed the sump pump. Spending maybe 10k at best. The floor repairs were done well however they did not address the cause of the problem so it will fail again in the future. The sump pump still doesn't sit in a proper pit so it needs to he redone also. Any thoughts on price? I'm thinking low to mid 70's. Is it unreasonable to think this?

The building previously sold for $35K and the improvements that were done mostly were not done properly. Based on that I don't see any added value. Despite the fact that all of us think it's a cool building, the market for people who would actually buy it is much more limited. I don't see any reason to offer them more than $55K and that's only if you desperately want it. Don't let your emotions get the better of you and get you into a place where you'll be quickly underwater. It's too big an investment to make an impulse purchase.

 

[brockstar]

I would hire the best housing inspector you can find. get everything in writing and use that as leverage.

Otherwise, looks like a great place and I hope it works out.

 

[78Bird]

I agree that you need a really good inspection and some research... the sewer thing scares the piss outta me, that would be a MAJOR catastrophe if it goes to **** (ha!).

That said, the building is wicked cool, and it'd be a real joy to see it saved and lived/worked in.

keep us informed.

 

[Falcon67]

$97K my eye - 55~65 maybe. 97K if it was all completely done up, including code work, sewer, sump and water issues, etc. Half-assed the way it is - no.

 

[signcrafter]

I would love to have that building! First I would go down to the city and start talking to them about options for sewer so you know what you are up against and what you options are. I would go talk to the home owners and tell them you are very interested but want to look into the foundation repairs and the septic issues and ask them if these come back as expensive repairs would they be willing to lower the price to take these into account. If they say they won't lower a significant amount then walk away and tell them to call you if they ever change their mind. If they are willing to come down then I would hire a mason contractor to come look at the foundation. Then a plumber to come take a look at the sewer options. Also someone to look at the sump.

Wood floors aren't really a bad thing for a machine shop if they are built right. Some of those older floor will hold a ton of weight, farmers used to drive tractors on wood floors all the time in barns. So if they are built right and can support the weight they are actually nice in a machine shop as long as you don't get coolant everywhere.

If it was me I would be doing some digging to see if you can find out what would need to be replaced and what it would cost and go to the owners with a much lower price to take into account the future repairs.

 

[idoine in toronto]

Looks like it's listed at more than double what it was appraised for last year and there does not seem to have been much of a price increase on properties in the area in the last two years when the sellers bought in 2010 for $35K. On the other hand it is still priced below residential properties in the area.

That said it looks like a beautiful old building, but as others have said with limited appeal to the masses which goes against the seller. I'd say if the needed repairs/upgrades are in your budget, I'd make a low ball offer at or near appraised value to start and go from there.

Good luck, Hope things go your way.

 

[BWS]

Have spent way too much time ****'n with old buildings.....there simply ain't enough bandwidth for the story's,duh.

Just a suggestion.....contact the local Historic folks or .orgs in your area.Get their input on the structure,they have a tremendous amt of "pull".You're looking for names.....these are gonna be some real old-timers.Finding and talking to these older folks are your insight or window to the past.

If you need some tips,shoot me a PM.We have over a 1/2 dz "Book"(National Register)buildings under our belt.The very best of luck,BWSmith

 

[Kevin54]

Cool building for sure. But if it was bought for $35g's and now they want $97g's, I would really like to know where they are coming up with that figure at given the economy is pretty much in the tank as far as housing goes.

You can get on the County Auditors website and see the particulars about it as far as what it sold for, improvements, and so on.

It looks great, the foundation can be repaired, some of the building shows it needs insulation. Use all of that to your advantage to make an offer. Look into the reason they are selling. If it is something like the owner got transfered to another state for work, then they want to sell reasonably fast so as to not have two payments. If it is the case that they are moving around the corner, then you want to look into possible problems that could run into the thousands and they are trying to unload it.

Do your homework. If you really want it, find out about the septic and whether or not you can hook into city sewer. If not,l then you would be stuck with a hell of a bill if anything goes wrong.

Now if you could hook into the city as far as utilities, and you really like the place and want it, lowball them out of the starting gate. I'd start out at $50g's and see how upset they are and see if they counter. Then the games begin. Your realtor should be able to dig up the facts about it and relay the facts back to you.

Whatever happens and whatever you find out, please keep us informed. I'm sure I'm not the only one curious as to how everything shakes out. Even if you do lowball then and they would accept and you back out, it's a lot of info for the next person. It is a unique looking place though.

One other thing to consider, and it just came to me....a good friend of mine bought a one room schoolhouse when he was in out town. The building has a large two car garage added on and it had been remodeled inside. There was a kitchen, bathroom, dining area, living room, and a utility room down. The upstairs was an open loft for an office, a full bath, and a master suite. The house was heated with propane and electric. The propane bill for all winter was less than $100. That was for the complete winter. They had electric baseboard heat for when it got real cold and their electric was never more than $100/mo. The walls on that old schoolhouse were one foot thick. When the sun was out it would warm the bricks then radiate it out over a 24 hour period. One of the most comfortable homes that I have ever been in