Old champion compressor

[dieselman966]

I need help with getting some info on a old Champion air compressor. I haven't been able to find anything online about it so far. I didn't have any luck talking to a dealer either. Says he can not find anything with the numbers I gave him. I'm just trying to find out if I can get parts for it still and general specifications on it.

 

[md21722]

SE-24 is going to be a very old compressor. Your best bet is going to call Mike Henegar at Pacific Air Compressors and see what he can share with you. Whatever he sends, please share with us. The only documentation I have is for other SE models (single stage). That pump you have is at least 50 years old.

 

[dieselman966]

Thanks for the input. I figured it was old not quite that old but that's cool. Do you know what the 24 stands for? I'll give him a call tomorrow and see what I can find out.

 

[Autoguy]

I have champion compressor sigle stage made in 1978 with S20 pump look smiliar to yours

except the pump >>it is smilia to the one in this website below

check this site
https://www.grainger.com/product/CHAMPION-1-Stage-Splash-Lubricated-3Z172

parts pdf

https://www.grainger.com/ec/pdf/CHAMPION-3Z172-Owners-Manual.pdf

CHAMPION
1-Stage Splash Lubricated Air Compressor Pump with 2 qt. Oil Capacity
Item# 3Z172 Mfr. Model# S-20 Catalog Page# N/A UNSPSC# 40151501

if not working from usa just search for Champion S20 pump looks similiar to yors
good luck

 

[dieselman966]

I found these numbers on the flywheel side of the pump. Do these mean anything to any one?

I'm waiting on Pacific Compressor place to get back to me still.

 

[dieselman966]

So I dug around on Google for a few hours tonight and this is all I could find. Apparently Champion started making these compressors in the late 20s. Pretty cool that this thing still works with it being about 80 years old.

 

[md21722]

Motor HP will give some clues as to its performance. However, if the motor was changed around with "something that fit" rather than the right match we may be off. So, motor sheave diameter, pump flywheel diameter, and cylinder bore and stroke would be helpful. You can measure all of these, but honestly I wouldn't even try to pull the valves as they may not seal as good when you put them back down and its unlikely you will ever find parts for it. It looks to be a low HP unit based on the motor. If you time its fill up and tell us what final pressure was we can also tell you what its current performance is. One of the dead give aways on that compressors age is the secondary base. They haven't used those since at least the 1960's. The formula for CFM is

CFM = (tank gallons) / 7.48 * pressure / 14.7 * 60 / time(seconds)

That looks like a 60 gallon tank to me and the nameplate suggests the same.

Basically on something like this you run it until she blows and replace the pump. It's nice that it's so old and still works, but a lot of places won't bother with them anymore because they've been out of production for many decades.

 

[Roberts210]

If Pacific Compressor doesn't get back to you try, All Air, Compressor & Mechanical Engineering Inc., North Hollywood, Cal. (818) 579-4793

They've helped me with small compressors, but their meat and potatoes is working on compressors the size of a 1-ton van. They have hundreds of used and rebuilt compressors in their shop from 20 gallon up to big rotary jobs.

 

[dieselman966]

I'll check them out if I don't hear anything back from the other place.

I got it wired up today and it ran for 10 minutes. It never got above 60 psi. I'm guessing it must have a stuck valve. This thing is super quite compared to my oil less craftsman. I might tinker with the valve and see if I can get it running any better. It has a 1 1/2 hp 220v motor on it with and a 18" flywheel.

 

[dieselman966]

So I got around to running this thing finally. After 15 minutes of running it was only able to build to 70 psi. Would someone be able to tell me if there would be something simple to check? There aren't any obvious leaks that should be causing it to not build past that pressure. Or is that all this vintage of compressor is capable of?

 

[The Cobbler]

Sounds like a leak to me. does the tank leak down when you shut off the compressor? if no, the leak is between the pump & check valve in the tank. look for a small leak using soapy water while the pump is running . check the unloader valve at the pressure switch and all connections. might need to shield the fan on the pump to keep it from blowing your soap solution
could be bad valves and/or leaking head too

 

[dieselman966]

Pretty sure I found the problem. Guess this thing is junk cause I can't find any parts for it. Oh well there is a pin hole leak on the bottom of the tank to.

 

[bonneyman]

Pretty sure I found the problem. Guess this thing is junk cause I can't find any parts for it. Oh well there is a pin hole leak on the bottom of the tank to.

Darn shame! Would have been nice to see that old timer spiffed up and back to work.

 

[dieselman966]

Does anyone know if disc valves are interchangeable? Would one from a different model work in this model.

 

[rjm32792]

The Valves look the same as my Champion REN-10, you need to measure the diameter of valves. Then go to Pacific Air website to check sizes. Good luck, but do not give up yet.

 

[hemifalcon]

Tanks are easy and cheap to find.. quality pumps are not.. if yours can be serviced and fixed-get after it and don't take to defeat so quickly..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[dieselman966]

I'm still digging into this. I have called people from a few different places and for whatever reason they don't seem to want to get back to me. If for no other reason I think it would be cool to have this old compressor to replace my craftsman. I pretty sure this old champion should be able to keep up with that compressor and I don't really want to spend the the $60 to fix the craftsman either.

Where can I find the specs on the valve size on the Pacific air website? I can't seem to come up with any information like that on there.

 

[md21722]

When I went down to get valves for mine, the 3-4 people in the shop said buy a new one at alternate times. It's because they're "obsolete". Often parts are no longer available and information as to what parts you need was long ago tossed. However, the parts guy was determined and found one that fit with some measuring. Champion themselves may have some information in their archives if you give them a call.

You aren't likely to find specs on valve size as normally you just buy the valves for your model. I haven't seen the size in any Champion literature either, but it may be out there.

 

[AJ1978]

I would give Kruman Equipment a call in Pittsburgh PA. They are an old time company and have some excellent people there. IF they tell you things are not available then there is a good chance they are not. But they are well versed.

 

[dieselman966]

I called champion directly on friday but the guy they said I needed to talk to was busy. I left him a voice mail and we'll see if I hear back from him or from one of the other places. I'm sure this compressor is obsolete. I'm just trying to see if I can find something from another model that might work at this point. I'll get the micrometer out at work Monday and see if I can get someone at one of these places to measure some up for me.

What function does the secondary base serve? Is it there to help cool the compressed air?

 

[dieselman966]

I called champion pneumatic co. today again and they were able to send me this manual. Gets me the part number of everything but the valves. From what the notes say I am supposed to refer to the valve chart form #1005. I guess the search continues. At least I'm getting some where now.

RJM I looked at the valves for the REN 10 and they look very similar. Any way you could get me some dimensions for them?

 

[dieselman966]

The guy at champion was also able to tell me that the pump is actually an SE 5 model. From the manual that he sent me it puts out 5.5-7 cfm at 500 rpm and a max working pressure of 150 psi.

 

[dieselman966]

Well after talking with Mike all the Pacific air and getting parts manuals from him for a few different model compressors. I think we might have it figured out. I have a couple of valves being sent to me. One is for a REN7 and one is for a RE10. These 2 compressor both have matching intake and exhaust manifold that are on my old SE5 pump. Well see what happens when they get here.

 

[AJ1978]

Keep us posted your searching will help others in the future

 

[Dr Stan]

Try this place: http://www.gipeautocolor.com/

They carry Champion Compressors and are a wonderful mix of the old timey parts house where the countermen can find items for old cars, etc and up to date technology and a computerized parts system that is one of the most accurate I've ever seen.

 

[dieselman966]

I have been sifting through the parts manuals for the re7-14, ren7 through 14 and the se5 and 10. There are a lot of parts that are interchangeable between the models. Piston, rods, bearings flywheels, rings and governor parts. I'm not sure what all is available but I found it interesting. I should see if the rust series pumps have any of the same parts. I'm pretty sure they can still get parts for them. I wonder if Pacific air would have a problem with me posting the pdf files they sent me. That way everyone could have access to them if they do a search.

 

[md21722]

The information is not copyrighted or proprietary to Pacific Air Compressors. Champion, the original source, freely sends it out as well. Please post so we can all learn and have access to the information.

 

[dieselman966]

Parts manuals for the following champion pneumatic machinery company compressor.
Ren7, ren10, ren14
Re7, re10, re14
Se5, se10.

Hopefully everyone will be able to search this to track down information on their old champion compressors.

I'll post an update when I get the new valves and see if they actually fit.

 

[dieselman966]

Well got the new valves in. Runs good and build pressure to 150 psi. Only took 30 minutes to do it. Glad I got this old pump running. Think I'm gonna Mount it on my craftsman tank and see if the build up time improves with not having the small leak on the tank. Otherwise I'll probably sell it and look for something bigger. Special sheet says it puts out between 5 and 7 cfm . I'm seeing about 2 with the pump spinning at 385 rpm. Do you guys things the extra 100 or so rpm would make much difference?

 

[Farmall450]

That looks incredible for the age. Too bad the tank is shot too, I'd try and find a similar one and paint to match OP.

 

[md21722]

I can't find the manuals online. In theory a 25% boost in RPM would generate 25% more air as long as RPM is in spec. How bad is that pin hole leak? Depending on tank leakage, the performance will take a hit, and in extreme cases, pressure will not even build. Is the oil & air filter clean? If its been sitting a while it may need to build pressure a few times for it to get back into shape. Have seen it before. How long did it take 0-150 on that 60 gallon tank? Since it's single stage time it 0-100. On single stage pumps, performance falls off as pressure builds. I would expect 110-135 to be 20-40% slower than 0-100... or something on that magnitude. If you are at high altitude, that will also cut into performance. I lose 25% here at 6,650 in Colorado Springs.

 

[dieselman966]

I live by lake Michigan in South East Wisconsin so I'm pretty sure altitude isn't a big deal. The pin hole on the bottom isn't big at all. I haven't actually the tank up to check the hole but what I can see from the side it look smaller than 1/32". 0-150 psi took 32 minutes. I'll have to run it again 0-100 psi. It did really seem to slow down a lot after 80 psi or so. When I was running it after it cut out I had my tire inflator running after it got to 100 psi because I was trying to get my phone to pick up the rpms off the flywheel. Took a long time to bleed air off with it running. Seamed like it held pressure pretty good from 100 to 60 psi with the. Oil looks ok. The air cleaner looks original but not really dirty. I may run both test without the air cleaner and see if that makes a difference. The guy that my father inlaw got the compressor from was using it up until he sold it. He finally retired and was selling stuff off. I do know the my oil less craftsman will walk all over the champion right now. Maybe I'm just trying to compare it to a compressor with a smaller tank so that why everything takes so long lol. When I had the valves out I sprayed wd40 in both holes and ran the pistons up and down a few times by hand to prevent rust. When I put the new valves in there was still some wd40 pooled up by the valve holes with the pistons all the way up. So I'm pretty sure the rings are ok to.

Farmall if I can get this pump to perform at least as good as my craftsman I will find a tank for it and paint it up to look the same. I think it would be cool to be able to say that I have cash 50 year old compressor just chugging along and the real bonus is that it is so quite. You can literally talk right next to it if you want and have a conversation if you wanted. T h at some the big selling point for me.

 

[md21722]

I would estimate about 8-9 minutes to fill from 0-100 PSI at your near sea level elevation. It is after all only a 1.5 HP unit with about 5-7 SCFM on a big tank. The longer they run, if they are working hard, the hotter they get, and performance drops. For example, I have a pair of 5 HP Champions sitting on 240 gallon worth of tank. The one 5 HP will fill a 60 gallon tank in 6-1/2 minutes to 175 PSI. If I ask it to fill 120 gallons, it takes 13-1/2 minutes, and if I ask it to fill 180 gallons it takes 22 minutes. This was with an R15 with less than 100 hours since new @ 6650'.

 

[Farmall450]

Farmall if I can get this pump to perform at least as good as my craftsman I will find a tank for it and paint it up to look the same. I think it would be cool to be able to say that I have cash 50 year old compressor just chugging along and the real bonus is that it is so quite. You can literally talk right next to it if you want and have a conversation if you wanted. T h at some the big selling point for me.

That's badass, it's incredible what some of that old stuff will do. Different era for sure.

 

[sberry]

Take the heads all the way apart before you try to score parts. Don't stop at the first problem, you wait on parts,,, put it back together or find something else during clean up.

 

[md21722]

I saw the specs on the SE 5. It is 5.5-7 displaced cfm. Delivery is 70-80% of that, so you're looking at a 4 CFM compressor @ 385 RPM. If you changed the speed to 500 RPM it would be around 5 CFM.

Turning so slow I wonder how hot it gets. Today these big box store units pumps 1000-1150 RPM or what have you, they weigh 1/3 of what the SE 5 does, take half a quart of oil, and only manage 5.5-5.9 CFM...

 

[AJ1978]

Agree with SBerry,
in one of your posts you stated it took 15 min to get to 70 PSI? I would make sure the check valve into the tank is not restricted, did you do both valves? Worst case run up to 125 PSI maybe?

 

[md21722]

Agree with SBerry,
in one of your posts you stated it took 15 min to get to 70 PSI? I would make sure the check valve into the tank is not restricted, did you do both valves? Worst case run up to 125 PSI maybe?

He changed the compressor valves to fix the problem with building pressure. It's building pressure up to 150 PSI now.

 

[md21722]

Take the heads all the way apart before you try to score parts. Don't stop at the first problem, you wait on parts,,, put it back together or find something else during clean up.

There is really nothing to take apart in the head. It's a one piece aluminum design with disc valves. If you remove the valves you can look inside and see if there is scuffing or blowby past the rings.

 

[Heel2toe]

OP- That is a really cool compressor. Bummer to hear about the pinhole leak on the tank. But hey being a glass half full kinda guy its probably good that you're aware of that now vs it randomly blowing out on you down the road. Im guessing given the age the tank it probably rotted out on the inside. But as mentioned prior finding a good tank is fairly easy. Its the pumps thats what makes a compressor compress

Good luck with everthing!

Also, who did you reach out to at Champion? I've got an old Champion compressor myself, though not nearly as old as this one but I'd love to find out the specifics of what I have. I know the pump was replaced at one point but I think it would be good to know the specifics so I dont crank up the pressure or anything like that. Mine is a two-stage but I think it might be happier keeping it under 150# so Im curious what they think over at Champion.