Old compressor - worth it to rebuild?

[Aaron2]

Hi All,
So I've found an old two stage Devilbiss 432 compressor with 5 horse single phase motor running it. It's a beast!

It wouldn't turn a full revolution when I got it so I pulled off the heads. One low pressure cylinder had quite a bit of rust and gunk in it. The valves on that cylinder were also pretty mucky. So the question is what level of carnage is acceptable in the low pressure side of this? The high pressure cylinder are beauty. I realize I could try get it machined and sleeved but that might be overkill for a 100$ compressor.

I plan on taking it apart entirely since it's obviously gotten wet at least to the piston.

The motor is absolutely massive for a 5hp. No caps either so I have to assume it's some sort of other start mechanism. It's got a rating for 110 and 220. 50 amps or so at 110! Might explain why it's so big.

All advice and suggestions are welcome. I'll take more photos as I go along and update. Who doesn't like to see the surprises you find in the guts of these thing?

 

[zendriver]

With that tank?

 

[Davefr]

My advise is to take it to the dump. It's like putting lipstick on a pig and the pig might just kill you.

 

[Packard V8]

SteamPunk at its finest. Definitely consider cleaning up the compressor and the motor.

If we had some photos of the LP cylinder, we could give an opinion of the possiblity of reusing it.

BTW, if I wanted that 19th century look in my shop, I'd pressure test the tank. It isn't difficult and then you'd know if it is safe to use.

The Baldwin Locomotive Works turned out on an average three locomotives per day with riveted boilers; there are a number of those locomotives still in operation today. Rivets are installed in a hot state, so as they cool, they contract and generate a preload force that compresses the **** straps and the shell together. As the rivets cool, they plastically deform with preload stresses relaxing back to the yield point.

jack vines, who still has a small riveted tank somewhere.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

My guess that's a repulsion-induction motor and the rear plates are to access the brushes. a 1.5hp R-I motor is the size of at 10HP 3ø motor lol

 

[Aaron2]

With that tank?

Well provided it passes 300lb test then yeah.

 

[Aaron2]

My guess that's a repulsion-induction motor and the rear plates are to access the brushes. a 1.5hp R-I motor is the size of at 10HP 3ø motor lol

Yeah that was my bet as well. I can't see any centrifugal mechanism for switching to inductive but I haven't had it apart far enough yet.

 

[Aaron2]

SteamPunk at its finest. Definitely consider cleaning up the compressor and the motor.

If we had some photos of the LP cylinder, we could give an opinion of the possiblity of reusing it.

BTW, if I wanted that 19th century look in my shop, I'd pressure test the tank. It isn't difficult and then you'd know if it is safe to use.

The Baldwin Locomotive Works turned out on an average three locomotives per day with riveted boilers; there are a number of those locomotives still in operation today. Rivets are installed in a hot state, so as they cool, they contract and generate a preload force that compresses the **** straps and the shell together. As the rivets cool, they plastically deform with preload stresses relaxing back to the yield point.

jack vines, who still has a small riveted tank somewhere.

I do actually like the look of the riveted tank. Thats pretty interesting about the hot rivets. Do you see any issue using the tank if it passes the hydro?

I'm assuming the test you're referring to is the fill with water and pressurize with a pressure washer to 300?

 

[Aaron2]

My advise is to take it to the dump. It's like putting lipstick on a pig and the pig might just kill you.

Man tough crowd. I like antique equipment. Tank might be questionable but we will see.

 

[isb cornbinder]

My advise is to take it to the dump. It's like putting lipstick on a pig and the pig might just kill you.

I agree with scrapping it. The riveted tank has to go to the scrap. It must be 75-80 years since tanks were riveted. This is a very good indication that major rust will have weakened the tank. This unit may have been taken out of service because of its age. Your insurance coverage may get cancelled if your insurer discovers this unit. It is a commercial compressor and there are safety regulations for replacement. You may not have any idea of how long that unit may have been set outside. Rust in the cylinders is a death sentence.
The parts, if they are available, will be very expensive.
The damage a tank that size can cause is major, when it fails. If you have a car in the same space, the sudden rice in room pressure will cave in the car's doors. Check You Tube for exploding tanks. You will be injured and likely killed.

 

[Aaron2]

SteamPunk at its finest. Definitely consider cleaning up the compressor and the motor.

If we had some photos of the LP cylinder, we could give an opinion of the possiblity of reusing it.

BTW, if I wanted that 19th century look in my shop, I'd pressure test the tank. It isn't difficult and then you'd know if it is safe to use.

The Baldwin Locomotive Works turned out on an average three locomotives per day with riveted boilers; there are a number of those locomotives still in operation today. Rivets are installed in a hot state, so as they cool, they contract and generate a preload force that compresses the **** straps and the shell together. As the rivets cool, they plastically deform with preload stresses relaxing back to the yield point.

jack vines, who still has a small riveted tank somewhere.

I agree with scrapping it. The riveted tank has to go to the scrap. It must be 75-80 years since tanks were riveted. This is a very good indication that major rust will have weakened the tank. This unit may have been taken out of service because of its age. Your insurance coverage may get cancelled if your insurer discovers this unit. It is a commercial compressor and there are safety regulations for replacement. You may not have any idea of how long that unit may have been set outside. Rust in the cylinders is a death sentence.
The parts, if they are available, will be very expensive.
The damage a tank that size can cause is major, when it fails. If you have a car in the same space, the sudden rice in room pressure will cave in the car's doors. Check You Tube for exploding tanks. You will be injured and likely killed.

Well that doesn't sound great. It was sitting outside.

 

[isb cornbinder]

Well that doesn't sound great. It was sitting outside.

Sitting outside is possibly the worst of situations. I was able to find a NOS Ingersoll tank on Craigslist. I paid $200. My T30 Ingersoll compressor came from an auction complete with a full rebuild kit. I got very lucky.
When my son and I scrapped my old compressor, my son cut the tank into two sections and dumped it at the city transfer station. It is much to dangerous to mess with an old pressure vessel made even worse when you do not know anything about the condition of the tank.
Enjoy the take-apart. Save the motor and the pulleys. eBay or Craigslist are two good places to find a new owner.

 

[GeoBruin]

Man tough crowd. I like antique equipment. Tank might be questionable but we will see.

That's why these "is it worth it" threads are tough. It's all relative. The answer is and always will be "it depends". If you want to work on projects and need a compressor that works asap, NO. It's not worth it. Sell it for scrap and put that money toward another used compressor that functions. If you like antique equipment and have the time/money to restore this machine (and value the story it will make), the answer is YES!

But you know that! So you're really just here to hear others' opinions. So, it should come as no surprise when you get the occasional "reality check". That shouldn't discourage you, but it should help shape your opinion which, again, is why you're here!

 

[American Locomotive]

Compressor pumps are generally pretty durable things, and some light pitting in the LP cylinder shouldn't hamper performance much. It might pump a bit of oil, but whatever. The motor is probably a repulsion induction motor. The switchover mechanism is usually inside the rotor, and it will short out the commutator. It might also just be a universal motor.

They haven't riveted tanks together for a long time. That pump seems much more modern than the tank. I've seen air compressors from 1944 with "modern" stamped and welded tanks, so that tank is likely pushing 100+ years old. I'd 5 PSI max in that tank and use it for filling up basketballs, That's about it. If you really want the "aesthetics" of the riveted tank, the best thing you can do is cut it open and shove a modern tank inside of it, plumb the tank to the outside world, weld the riveted tank back up, then grind & paint it

The pump and motor are probably worth saving, though. The DV432 pump is a GREAT reliable pump that can move a lot of air quietly, and I'm sure that motor is fine, too.

 

[mike93lx]

Absolutely not. Replace the tank if you want to use the pump.and motor and put the old tank on display if you like the look. I'd never even put pressure into it

 

[isb cornbinder]

That's why these "is it worth it" threads are tough. It's all relative. The answer is and always will be "it depends". If you want to work on projects and need a compressor that works asap, NO. It's not worth it. Sell it for scrap and put that money toward another used compressor that functions. If you like antique equipment and have the time/money to restore this machine (and value the story it will make), the answer is YES!

But you know that! So you're really just here to hear others' opinions. So, it should come as no surprise when you get the occasional "reality check". That shouldn't discourage you, but it should help shape your opinion which, again, is why you're here!

Speaking of reality check! My wife was going out. She asked me if she needs a bra. I felt trapped. There is no right answer. I told her to go with what is the most comfortable. That was a close call.

 

[Aaron2]

Alright so consensus is definitely ditch the tank. Always did like the space savings of a stand up tank

 

[Wrench97]

I agree with scrapping it. The riveted tank has to go to the scrap. It must be 75-80 years since tanks were riveted. This is a very good indication that major rust will have weakened the tank. This unit may have been taken out of service because of its age. Your insurance coverage may get cancelled if your insurer discovers this unit. It is a commercial compressor and there are safety regulations for replacement. You may not have any idea of how long that unit may have been set outside. Rust in the cylinders is a death sentence.
The parts, if they are available, will be very expensive.
The damage a tank that size can cause is major, when it fails. If you have a car in the same space, the sudden rice in room pressure will cave in the car's doors. Check You Tube for exploding tanks. You will be injured and likely killed.

I had a tank dated 1932 and it was welded....................................

 

[seber]

When you google compressor tank failure, you will find that every one of them is a light guage sheet metal tank. Heavy tanks don't fail catastrophically. They simply pop a hole and lose pressure. It may scare the hell out of you but that is all. If the tank holds pressure there is no reason not to use it. I'd be more worried about finding parts for the pump.

 

[mike93lx]

When you google compressor tank failure, you will find that every one of them is a light guage sheet metal tank. Heavy tanks don't fail catastrophically. They simply pop a hole and lose pressure. It may scare the hell out of you but that is all. If the tank holds pressure there is no reason not to use it. I'd be more worried about finding parts for the pump.

You say that as if that failure mode is a guarantee.

 

[Jswain]

I definitely wouldn't scrap the pump or motor. Clean the valves, hone the LP cylinders, check all the bearings, clean everything else & reassemble with new gaskets.

The tank is iffy. Id be ok with hydro testing it for a long time filled with water and if it passes using it to confirm the pump/motor combo is working correctly. Find yourself a good 80gallon vertical tank in decent shape and then you're styling.

You would have to spend BIG money to buy a compressor as powerful as that, and chances are if you rebuild it and keep it full of oil, it will last forever

 

[Aaron2]

So I made it home and so here is a photo of the bum cylinder.

 

[428PI]

When I worked on farm equipment in the early 80s we had a compressor upstairs in the second floor of building (they used to work on Model A's on the second floor at one time via an elevator) that had a last safety checked tag sometime during the 40s. Don't have a clue whether it had a riveted tank. Have to call my brother on that one.

 

[Aaron2]

Anybody know how to grease the bearings in the motor?

 

[Aaron2]

When I worked on farm equipment in the early 80s we had a compressor upstairs in the second floor of building (they used to work on Model A's on the second floor at one time via an elevator) that had a last safety checked tag sometime during the 40s. Don't have a clue whether it had a riveted tank. Have to call my brother on that one.

I'm on the fence about the tank. It would have to be gone over with a fine tooth comb and pressurized for a long time. Explosive death doesn't sound too good. It is built like an absolute tank. Found a date code of 1930 on it!

 

[930dreamer]

X2 on ditching the tank, rebuild the pump and look for a modern motor or not.

 

[428PI]

Found a date code of 1930 on it!

Just talked to my brother. He said he didn't think it was riveted. Said one day it ran all night because of broken air hose so they had to replace the electric motor on it. Thought maybe it was a "curtis"? He wasn't sure. He said look at some date codes on oxy bottles sometimes. They had one marked 1907 before. Many in the 30s.

 

[Aaron2]

Well stage one complete. The motor lives. Got a giant 5hp motor out of the deal anyhow.

 

[Aaron2]

Well stage one complete. The motor lives. Got a giant 5hp motor out of the deal anyhow.

Well that was supposed to come with a video but it didn't work.

 

[American Locomotive]

So I made it home and so here is a photo of the bum cylinder.

Pop the jug off, run a hone very quickly and lightly up and down the cylinder to cut the rust, and then put it back together. I've seen worse.

Well that was supposed to come with a video but it didn't work.

I believe you need a few more posts before videos can be posted. Anti-spam thing.

When you google compressor tank failure, you will find that every one of them is a light guage sheet metal tank. Heavy tanks don't fail catastrophically. They simply pop a hole and lose pressure. It may scare the hell out of you but that is all. If the tank holds pressure there is no reason not to use it. I'd be more worried about finding parts for the pump.

Most heavy gauge tanks are not riveted lap joint tanks. Lap joint riveted tanks are the earliest and crudest design of riveted pressure vessel. These pressure vessels often fail catastrophically, usually the joint will tear apart violently. "Modern" riveted pressure vessels usually use a ****-joint

 

[Aaron2]

Pop the jug off, run a hone very quickly and lightly up and down the cylinder to cut the rust, and then put it back together. I've seen worse.

I believe you need a few more posts before videos can be posted. Anti-spam thing.

Most heavy gauge tanks are not riveted lap joint tanks. Lap joint riveted tanks are the earliest and crudest design of riveted pressure vessel. These pressure vessels often fail catastrophically, usually the joint will tear apart violently. "Modern" riveted pressure vessels usually use a ****-joint

Thanks, I'll probably get the rest of the tear down done in the next day or two. I'm glad to hear that jug is likely salvageable.

 

[Davefr]

Alright so consensus is definitely ditch the tank. Always did like the space savings of a stand up tank

I wouldn't necessarily ditch the tank but I'd certainly not use it. It makes a nice dummy stand for the motor/pump. If you get that motor and pump restored mechanically then do a complete cosmetic restoration and maybe put the unit on wheels. However I'd look for a new remote vertical ASME cert. pressure vessel as your air tank that you could locate anywhere you want and just plumb the pump unit to it.

You also need to ensure the pump will deliver >>90 PSI or it'll be worthless for air tools. IME some of these super old pumps were not designed to produce high enough PSI for air tool use.

Keep us updated. You're in for a ton of work and $$'s but it would really be a showcase to see it totally restored. If you really want to be creative you could cut double doors in the old tank, add a shelf or two and use it to store hoses, air tools, etc.

P.S. Take the motor totally apart, clean it, pull the rotor and restore or replace the bearings. (no shortcuts)

 

[oldmachinenut]

I wouldn't necessarily ditch the tank but I'd certainly not use it. It makes a nice dummy stand for the motor/pump. If you get that motor and pump restored mechanically then do a complete cosmetic restoration and maybe put the unit on wheels. However I'd look for a new remote vertical ASME cert. pressure vessel as your air tank that you could locate anywhere you want and just plumb the pump unit to it.

You also need to ensure the pump will deliver >>90 PSI or it'll be worthless for air tools. IME some of these super old pumps were not designed to produce high enough PSI for air tool use.

Keep us updated. You're in for a ton of work and $$'s but it would really be a showcase to see it totally restored. If you really want to be creative you could cut double doors in the old tank, add a shelf or two and use it to store hoses, air tools, etc.

P.S. Take the motor totally apart, clean it, pull the rotor and restore or replace the bearings. (no shortcuts)

You beat me to it on the tank

 

[Aaron2]

I wouldn't necessarily ditch the tank but I'd certainly not use it. It makes a nice dummy stand for the motor/pump. If you get that motor and pump restored mechanically then do a complete cosmetic restoration and maybe put the unit on wheels. However I'd look for a new remote vertical ASME cert. pressure vessel as your air tank that you could locate anywhere you want and just plumb the pump unit to it.

You also need to ensure the pump will deliver >>90 PSI or it'll be worthless for air tools. IME some of these super old pumps were not designed to produce high enough PSI for air tool use.

Keep us updated. You're in for a ton of work and $$'s but it would really be a showcase to see it totally restored. If you really want to be creative you could cut double doors in the old tank, add a shelf or two and use it to store hoses, air tools, etc.

P.S. Take the motor totally apart, clean it, pull the rotor and restore or replace the bearings. (no shortcuts)

Luckily enough the place I work at has a motor winding shop so I've got plenty of resources available for the motor refurbish.

 

[Packard V8]

I agree with scrapping it. The riveted tank has to go to the scrap. It must be 75-80 years since tanks were riveted. This is a very good indication that major rust will have weakened the tank. This unit may have been taken out of service because of its age. Your insurance coverage may get cancelled if your insurer discovers this unit. It is a commercial compressor and there are safety regulations for replacement. You may not have any idea of how long that unit may have been set outside. Rust in the cylinders is a death sentence.
The parts, if they are available, will be very expensive.
The damage a tank that size can cause is major, when it fails. If you have a car in the same space, the sudden rice in room pressure will cave in the car's doors. Check You Tube for exploding tanks. You will be injured and likely killed.

Whoa, lotsa flat statements; got substantiation?

Insurance cancelled? Yes, industrial compressor applications must have an annual city inspection, but OP hasn't told us he's commercial. Likely, he's a homeowner and it would instructive to find a reference for an insurance cancellation for an old air compressor. There's no regulation, no statue, no testing requirement for homeowner use, so on what basis do they cancel him? That some GJers are a bit cautious?

Never heard of pressure testing? Industrial tanks are pressure tested annually and some riveted tanks are still in use and still passing certification.

YouTube explosions, they're their own thing and the how/why are not always clear but I've been around hundreds of pressure vessel tests and the worst I've ever seen are pinhole leaks.

BTW, no one has asked OP if there's a draincock and if there is, what comes out when it's opened?

Rust in the compressor cylinders a death sentence? Yes, for a cheapo unit. If it's a quality piece, we clean up and rebuild rusted cylinders every day here. Sometimes just a hone is sufficient, sometimes rebore and new pistons, sometimes a sleeve, but often more cost-effective than a new industrial quality unit. Good stuff ain't cheap.

jack vines

 

[never enuf time]

I love that tank, I would definitely test it. Even if it doe fail, find a use for it

 

[Aaron2]

Onwards we go. Tooķ off the jugs and it seems like the rings are sealed into the low pressure piston. They are quite tight in the grooves and difficult to come out.

Whoa, lotsa flat statements; got substantiation?

Insurance cancelled? Yes, industrial compressor applications must have an annual city inspection, but OP hasn't told us he's commercial. Likely, he's a homeowner and it would instructive to find a reference for an insurance cancellation for an old air compressor. There's no regulation, no statue, no testing requirement for homeowner use, so on what basis do they cancel him? That some GJers are a bit cautious?

Never heard of pressure testing? Industrial tanks are pressure tested annually and some riveted tanks are still in use and still passing certification.

YouTube explosions, they're their own thing and the how/why are not always clear but I've been around hundreds of pressure vessel tests and the worst I've ever seen are pinhole leaks.

BTW, no one has asked OP if there's a draincock and if there is, what comes out when it's opened?

Rust in the compressor cylinders a death sentence? Yes, for a cheapo unit. If it's a quality piece, we clean up and rebuild rusted cylinders every day here. Sometimes just a hone is sufficient, sometimes rebore and new pistons, sometimes a sleeve, but often more cost-effective than a new industrial quality unit. Good stuff ain't cheap.

jack vines

Yeah it has a drain but nothing came out. The opening at one end had no bung so it wasn't sealed. I'm assuming any liquid in there has evaporated.

 

[Aaron2]

Pic of the sealed in rings

 

[Aaron2]

I do have a machinist friend so possibly the resleeve is an option for that rusty bore.

 

[Aaron2]

And the rings came out a bit hard.