Old Coot Needs Advice For New Garage Tools

[PeteCal]

Well, I have been a shade tree mechanic for over 50 years and now my son is getting a house and will need tools. My stuff is a collection of wrenches and sockets that I inherited from my grandfather and father and purchased as needed over the years. My son doesn't need "professional" grade stuff. after all, his shouldn't be too much better then mine LOL.
I have been looking at sockets and combination wrenches for just basic work on vehicles and around the house.. Things have changed considerably.

(1) I see pass through sockets. They seem really neat because of the low profile and no need for deep sockets. Are those things true and are there any downsides to pass through sockets?

(2) I see "universal" sockets. The ones that fit square, 5 point, hex, etc. I am concerned that they could cause more damage then help. Is that true?

(3) I see that Lowes brand Kobalt color codes metric verses SAE. That seems great. For my old ones, long ago I sprayed the metric and SAE with different color paints I had left over. Do other brands do color coding?

(4) Six point verses twelve point. Some of mine are six point then switch to twelve point at larger sizes. But I see "sets" that have both. That seems like more confusion putting the tools away then it is worth. Is there a real need for both?
(5) What about cases for the tools. It seems it doesn't take long to find out the "set" doesn't have the very size I need. Like Craftsman left out the 10mm combination from my set. I could have kicked them in the ****. There never seems to be space to add more to a set that comes in a case. Does anybody have a solution for this? For both the wrenches and sockets?
(6) I am sure I left out many items. But did I forget any really important things?

Note, I have a concern about Kobalt. A few years ago I saw a "deal" at Lowes for something like 15 nippers, side cutters and needle nose pliers. Some of the pliers didn't have serrations on the jaws and can't hold anything. And some of the cutters have edges that close on one side before the other side meets. Don't try to cut a piece of twine. It will shred every time. Is Kobalt a concern?

Thanks to all in advance.
Pete

 

[Gotcha640]

What do you want to get him? What sort of guy is he (father to be, bachelor for life, in to auto repair, 80 hour a week job,???)?

If he's made it to home ownership without tools, maybe he plans on paying for repairs? Who's maintained his cars so far? Does he have/want a lawnmower, or will he pay a crew?

Half of my friends have the screwdriver/hammer/socket set their dads got them in high school or college of for boy scouts or whatever, and never opened the bag. Most of the rest didn't get the first set of tools.

My friends and I were collecting tools to rebuild engines and remodel bathrooms when we were in high school and college, so that starter set was used, abused, broken, and replaced with pawn shop craftsman and snap on before we ever got our own houses.

We're early 30s now, and my tool collection is exactly what I need to do the things I like doing - car repair all the way down to an engine rebuild, woodworking tools from a decent table saw to chisels and hand planes made in the 1800s, electronic and electrical related tools for computer repair to adding a circuit and lights in the house, and some bicycle specific tools.

Maybe you talk to him about projects he wants to do and offer to bring the tools and the knowledge, he makes lunch and pays attention?

 

[PJNJ]

Pass thru aren't bad and sometimes come in handy BUT if you need a particular size that you don't have, it may not always be as easy as going to Sears/Home Depot/Lowes and grabbing the odd socket as you would with standard socket styles. Also the extensions are bulkier and may make getting into a tight space difficult. I don't think they are a replacement for standard sockets but an additional tool that can be helpful.

I have a Bostitch set which is reasonable in price and pretty complete in sizes. I got it essentially because I had to adjust a strut shock nut.
Here's a link -
http://www.walmart.com/ip/25440928?...73153712&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=78765818192&veh=sem

For your son I would probably buy a Gearwrench set. Currently the 3/8 set comes with a BOGO (buy one get one free) deal of the 1/4 set with the 120 tooth ratchet. Here's a link -
http://www.cpooutlets.com/gearwrenc...automotive-hand-tools-impact-sockets-and-sets

Both are very good sets and have cases which make it easy to find the sizes you need and you'll easily spot whats missing when putting everything away.

You can find the bogo cheaper elsewhere but I have ordered from CPO before with no problem. I don't know about the cheaper sellers or their reputations.
Gearwrench also makes a 1/2 set which is pretty good. Here's a link -
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0014ZZ4WE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

These are all good sets that should serve him well for many years. I would also recommend SK but they are more expensive and I don't know what type of work he is going to do. You know, maybe you should treat yourself and upgrade your sockets and pass your sets down to him.

Get some Wrightgrip wrenches and Proto Duratek or Williams hard handle screwdrivers and he (or you) are well positioned to make some repairs and do some work.

Good hunting.

 

[Loren871]

In my experience kobalt sockets,ratchets and wrenches are the only thing they make that's of any quality. Their vise grips and other similar pliers are low quality.For the money and someone who isnt gonna be turning wrenches everyday I'd say you can't beat harbor freight.

As far as six or twelve in my experience 6 point always seems to fit better and help avoid stripping of the fastner but 12 points have there place aswell. And yes some other brands do color coding but I rely more on my socket trays and such for keeping up with metric and standard. But if that's something you prefer again kobalt sockets are nice sockets. I have a metric 3/8 set that I use on a daily basis.

Have never had much use for a universal socket but others might have a different story. Never needed or used so can't say.

Have a set of pass through sockets that s a crescent wrench brand and to be honest I rarely use the set. Might aswell use a ratchet wrench but if you didn't wanna invest in a set of ratchet wrenches these would work to a certain point.

For channelocks , vise grips , side cutters, needle nose etc I'd go with either channelock or vise grip brand. There are better tools out there but just for occasional use the price and quality should hold up just fine.

 

[Jarhead0408]

1- Pass Through Sockets They don't replace deep sockets in my opinion. There are times when a recessed fastener can be reached with a deep socket, but not a shallow socket on an extension, and the pass through may not reach at all.. Pass through sockets have their place, but your son would get more use out of a regular and deep set initially.

2-Universal=Spline Sockets They can slightly mar a fastener, but I don't think they'd round anything off if you tried. I prefer a regular 6 pt personally. I can tell you how many imes I've needed to use a splined socket specifically for an odd shaped fastener. Zero. I'm no pro though, but I'll hazard a guess that they'd tell you to just have the proper type of socket to remove it and not worry about investing a spline.

3-Lowes/Color Coding Other brands do color coding, but you've got to be careful as the coding pattern for Lowes/Kobalt and Autozone/Duralast is opposite of each other for SAE and metric.

4-Six Point vs. Twelve Point. I'd argue that 6 point sockets are used more, but you WILL need 12 point sockets at some point if you wrench. I say this as a non=pro, DIY type of guy. 12 points are a must for me for things like drive shaft flanges and other things. They're the kind of tool you don't want to cuss yourself out for not having when you needed it and now you're heading to the store to buy them.

5-Case Yep, best solution is to find a decent sized hand carry toolbox. Don't get a regular Joe Homeowner type with the lift out tray and space beneath. Look for an old style cantilever box with two or three fold out layers for wings. Ebay's your best bet for a NICE older Craftsman, or hit up Amazon and/or eBay for a decent (but cheaper in every regard) Excell Cantilever toolbox. Bigger is better IMO if only because your son won't run out of room too quickly. Having enough room for the basics is nice, but what happens when he needs to carry a couple of tools that go beyond just the wrenches and ratchet with sockets? Get my drift? He'll need to throw in some pliers, maybe a ball peen hammer, all kinds of stuff. Check this thread out if you'd like to see some truly excellent tool load-outs and great toolboxes: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=232078

I highly recommend looking at the whole thread. Great stuff in there.

Personally, I think Kobalt is okay for their wrenches and ratchets/sockets, but honestly I feel like they are grossly overpriced; especially on their ratchets. Good quality ratchets can be had for the same money or less from other sources. Want a U.S made tool? SK is an excellent way to go. Don't care about if it's used? Hit up eBay. Want new but don't want to pay a lot? Harbor Freight's Professional Grade ratchets with the red and black comfort grip handle can't easily be beaten for the weekend wrencher.

Lastly, Welcome aboard Pete! Glad to meet you and I hope we'll be "seeing" more of you around on here. Pretty decent group of guys (and a few gals) on here who are mostly respectful and helpful.

Good on you for getting the ball rolling for your son. Maybe once you've been on here a bit you can suggest that he check the site out as well. It's truly one of the hidden gems of the internet imo.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Get him started with good quality basic tools, avoid the gimmicks.
With common sets of screw drivers, pliers and a few hammers and saws (types and sizes). I could do 95% of maintenance and repairs.
For home maintenance a couple pipe wrenches and simple AC electrical test light.

Set of combination wrenches, torx drivers, allen keys will get me through most common maintenance/repairs of vehicles, lawn mowers, boats etc.

Socket sets 6pt vs 12 pt, deep vs shallow. Most of the time they are almost interchangeable. Most used for me would be 3/8 drive shallow 6 pt. I've never had, needed or desired pass-thru.

All the rest comes over time.

 

[PeteCal]

Time out guys. I am going through JarHead0408's post about tool boxes. I am at about page 3 of 13 or more. But it is giving me lots of ideas. And could be a determining factor in what direction I will head.
Once I get better grounded, I'll get to our posts in detail. But everyone has sure provided good information.

Thanks,
Pete

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

A book cold be written attempting to fully answer this, and there is no one right anser but mine

Well, I have been a shade tree mechanic for over 50 years and now my ss and sockets that I inherited from my grandfather and father and purchased as needed over the years. Things have changed considerably.

Not really, headlights are brighter and cupholders are finally standard. It's still bolts, even if more of them are Torx.

(1) I see pass through sockets. They seem really neat because of the low profile and no need for deep sockets. Are those things true and are there any downsides to pass through sockets?
No and yes, if you need 3' of extension to hit a bellhousing stud, you will curse the pass through setup. Also I have yet to see one with a breaker bar, or which will fit on a power drive tool.
that said, I have a GW sae/metric 72? piece set, and its so convenient to have all sizes in one box, i use it quite a bit. There is a good advantage in overall thickness sometimes.

(2) I see "universal" sockets. The ones that fit square, 5 point, hex, etc. I am concerned that they could cause more damage then help. Is that true?
sometimes when you can pound one onto a rusty rounded fastener for a tighter fit. I own some, and they seldom come out of the box

(3) I see that Lowes brand Kobalt color codes metric verses SAE. That seems great. For my old ones, long ago I sprayed the metric and SAE with different color paints I had left over. Do other brands do color coding?
Using a different brand also makes the difference immediately clear.

(4) Six point verses twelve point. Some of mine are six point then switch to twelve point at larger sizes. But I see "sets" that have both. That seems like more confusion putting the tools away then it is worth. Is there a real need for both?
Yes, smaller 12 points break too easy, and some parts have 12pt heads.


(5) What about cases for the tools. It seems it doesn't take long to find out the "set" doesn't have the very size I need. Like Craftsman left out the 10mm combination from my set. I could have kicked them in the ****. There never seems to be space to add more to a set that comes in a case. Does anybody have a solution for this? For both the wrenches and sockets?
Use a not original container/rack/etc.

(6) I am sure I left out many items. But did I forget any really important things?

Note, I have a concern about Kobalt. A few years ago I saw a "deal" at Lowes for something like 15 nippers, side cutters and needle nose pliers. Some of the pliers didn't have serrations on the jaws and can't hold anything. And some of the cutters have edges that close on one side before the other side meets. Don't try to cut a piece of twine. It will shred every time. Is Kobalt a concern?

Thanks to all in advance.
Pete

If I were starting over, Id look at what I was getting would cost at the store, then I'd go on Ebay, and build the best used kit I could at a similar price

 

[PeteCal]

Thanks to all. This is what I plan to do.
Skip the pass through sockets. Although the low profile is nice, the lack of accessories like a breaker bar and replacements and substitutes is a disadvantage. If my son thinks he needs them, he can buy them himself. KISS.

Same for the "universal" sockets. The additional versatility is not enough to outweigh the risk. KISS.

I see no need for 6 pt. and 12 pt. of the same sizes. One or the other. If I end up with a set that includes overlap I will keep all the 6 pt. and any 12 pt. for the missing 6 pt. sockets.

I will pass on deep sockets for now. If he has a need, he can get them himself.

As for color code (or different brands like Ole Slewfoot said) for identifying metric vs SAE, both sound like good methods. Until "the missing wrench size problem" happens and he can't get the size from the right brand.

As for a case. Nothing for now. If some of the sets come with a case, he can use the case until the extra wrenches out grow it. Then he can come up with his own solution. That is what I did. I had 3/8 metric sockets in a box. 3/8 SAE in a different box. A whole collection of loose sizes that didn't fit in either box. Finally I bought some of those strips with the sliding clips that the sockets snap onto. I bought the cheap ones and a few extra so I had many clips. Then I put all the metric (after spraying them green) on one strip along with a universal joint. Then similar with the SAE after painting them blue. I stuck a 3/8 to 1/4 adapter on that strip. I did a similar thing for the 1/4 drive and the 1/2 drive. I didn't have enough 1/2 drive metric to warrant a strip.

As for the open end and combination sets. I had acquired a few extras that obsoleted the packaging they came in. So, a local home store had nail aprons for a good price. They are pretty tough. So I got the wife's sewing machine and sewed pockets in one nail apron for the metric and another for the SAE. I used a magic marker to label each pocket with the wrench size.

He can do the same or go with something from:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=232078

But it may be years until he needs that.

Thanks to all for the great info.

Pete

 

[Moose97]

Pete, I've got a different option for you. One not previously mentioned but might work out better for your son and you! Go to Harbor Freight and get him a 5 drawer cart. Very nice and a lot of room for a nubes tools. Take it home and fill it with your tools. Stuff you use regularly. This way he gets some of dads, granddads and great-granddads tools and now you get to start upgrading your tool collection with a little higher quality stuff! Just a thought!

 

[PeteCal]

Ha Ha. I love it but I would get trashed. I already have a reputation as a tight wad beyond beyond. If I tried that I would have to surrender my new collection and take the old one back.
But I like the way you think!