Old Deck Rehash

[D45]

Well it looks like Azek might be the choice........local lumber yard sell it in 20' lengths and they have 0% for 48 months!

Today I installed 25 bags (.75 cu ft) of black dirt and graded the slope away from the wall and also away from the enclosed patio. I am hopeful this will help.

I bought an $8 roll of 4 mil plastic and laid it down, and then covered it all up and smoothed out the river rock........cheap project so far, since the bags of dirt were only $1.39 each and the $8 roll of poly has a $7 rebate

I need to work on removing the two vertical pvc conduit sections and taking out the two outlets............and installing some flashing on the garage wall side

How high up under the siding should the flashing go? 3"?

Here are some final pics from today

 

[D45]

I was able to get the two outlets disconnected, the box removed and the two vertical pieces removed

There were a lot more wires inside than I though there would have been

Tomorrow I will shop around and see what I can find, regarding an outside waterproof j-box

I also need to find some 3/4" PVC bends and figure out an orientation on what will work

 

[D45]

I cut the one vertical pvc section close to the ground and used a balled 90 degree bend piece, and installed a liquid tite fitting on the end of the bend.........and glued the bend to the cut off stub

I then cut the long pvc run and installed another liquid tite fitting on the end

I mounted a small pvc box and connected both

I used some DryConn wire nuts on all the connections

The pvc box had a good rubber gasket, but I used some silicon on the lid and also around the fittings on each side of the box

Pleased how it looks and how it turned out, maybe $35 into this small project

 

[D45]

Next weekend I am going to install flashing on the garage wall side.......since the ledger on the enclosed patio side is tucked under like 6" and the wood looks new

How far up under the vinyl siding should the aluminum flashing get tucked?

 

[yeldogt]

The key is to insure the product you use for the deck is suitable for one built at ground level. Most of the products are not... with most you have to dive deep into the install directions before you read something that mentions ventilation.

Where did you place the plastic ?

My memory was Azek did have a product suitable -- it has to be all plastic. I did my addition at the beach with Azek -- if you want a white building .. Azex is the product.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

The key is to insure the product you use for the deck is suitable for one built at ground level. Most of the products are not... with most you have to dive deep into the install directions before you read something that mentions ventilation.

Where did you place the plastic ?

My memory was Azek did have a product suitable -- it has to be all plastic. I did my addition at the beach with Azek -- if you want a white building .. Azex is the product.

Correct, standard PVC capped composite decking is only capped on 3 sides. The bottom is left exposed. They are rated on how far above the ground they must be installed. For a deck built on grade, you'll most likely need a deck board that is PVC capped all the way around.

This is capped on 3 sides:
https://deckadvisor.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/img_09041.jpg

Fully capped:
https://deckadvisor.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/img_09031.jpg?w=700&h=

 

[D45]

Thanks for the info on the 3 sided versus 4 sided

Azek has a lot of options, I will have to see what is offered in 4 sided cap style

I have about 6" to 12" under the top deck boards to the top of the rock, just depends on the area......is this "ground level"?????

 

[D45]

https://azek.com/resources/faqs

Can AZEK® Deck be used near water?

Yes. Since AZEK® Deck is capped polymer decking, it is resistant to rot and decay caused by moisture, making it the ideal material to use around water. It’s comprised of 100% inorganic materials, which means it isn’t susceptible to moisture related deterioration commonly seen with wood. Its synthetic makeup protects it against rotting, warping and cupping—all water-related issues. If you want to include a water feature in your deck plan, AZEK capped polymer decking is the perfect material to choose.


When AZEK Deck is properly fastened to structurally sound and secure framing, there is no minimum height or ground clearance requirement for AZEK Deck and Porch

------------------------------------------------

https://timbertech.com/resources/faqs

 

[lakeroadster]

What's your joist spacing D45? 16" maximum for Azek per their installation guide. https://azek.com/docs/installation/azekdeck_install_guide.pdf

 

[D45]

What's your joist spacing D45? 16" maximum for Azek per their installation guide. https://azek.com/docs/installation/azekdeck_install_guide.pdf

Good point, I believe I am ok

I know some are 14" OC and some others are 16" OC........but I will double check tonight that no joists are more than allowed

 

[Mr. Roboto]

https://azek.com/resources/faqs

Can AZEK® Deck be used near water?

Yes. Since AZEK® Deck is capped polymer decking, it is resistant to rot and decay caused by moisture, making it the ideal material to use around water. It’s comprised of 100% inorganic materials, which means it isn’t susceptible to moisture related deterioration commonly seen with wood. Its synthetic makeup protects it against rotting, warping and cupping—all water-related issues. If you want to include a water feature in your deck plan, AZEK capped polymer decking is the perfect material to choose.


When AZEK Deck is properly fastened to structurally sound and secure framing, there is no minimum height or ground clearance requirement for AZEK Deck and Porch

------------------------------------------------

https://timbertech.com/resources/faqs

If that's the case then great, you're home free! I did my deck in Fiberon and when I was doing research, different grades of decking required varying heights for that product line.

 

[D45]

Would it be worth the cost to buy the butyl type deck sealant tape?

Deck-Wise

Looks expensive, but if it helps THAT much to prolong the lift of the joists.....then I might spring for it

All the big box stores carry it, I just do not know anyone that has ever used it

http://www.thedeckstoreonline.com/joist-tape-by-deckwise.html#.Wd5CaU2pWUk


http://www.homedepot.com/p/DeckWise...st-Barrier-Tape-JST-TAPE-3-INx75-FT/206311664

I would need a 4"-5" wide roll too, since my joists are sistered together

Menards has a 4"x75' roll for $17.59

https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...605-c-5728.htm?tid=5809624549129700172&ipos=9

 

[Mr. Roboto]

Absolutely, especially considering the fact that you're re-using your old joists which now have old nailing holes in the top as an intrusion point for water to get in to. It's money well spent. I used it on mine, and I used a 3 foot roll to flash quit a ways up my house as well behind the deck. Don't skimp on the house flashing. The previous homeowners did, which is why I had to rip the desk they built off in the first place and start from scratch.

 

[lakeroadster]

I'd email Azek to make sure they don't have issues with the Deck-Wise butyl material being in contact with their decking.

Another good product is Rust-Oleum 01901 Coppercoat Wood Preservative.

 

[D45]

Absolutely, especially considering the fact that you're re-using your old joists which now have old nailing holes in the top as an intrusion point for water to get in to. It's money well spent. I used it on mine, and I used a 3 foot roll to flash quit a ways up my house as well behind the deck. Don't skimp on the house flashing. The previous homeowners did, which is why I had to rip the desk they built off in the first place and start from scratch.

I have two ledger boards, but only one is attached to the side of the garage wall. This had no flashing on it. I plan to use aluminum flashing in this location.

How far under the siding should I go, 3"?

The other ledger board is tucked under the deck and attached to the enclosed patio structure.

 

[yeldogt]

Old school PT lumber is not the same as the stuff today. I would leave it alone .... not put anything on top. Wood that dries out will not be a future problem. Flashing at the house is another matter -- you want to protect the sheathing so water does not sit between the ledger board and the sheathing. Trapping water is what you dont want to do.

When I removed the cedar boards from my 15 year old deck the PT structure under it was in unbelievable shape ... I had some very minor rot on two of the small outside boards that had full earth contact .. not enough that they needed removal. Today, most of the PT lumber is not for ground contact ... only the PT posts ....... 4x4 6x6 etc.

Any deck built on the ground w/o 18" of free space under is considered on grade. Mine is at grade -- the whole structure is is sitting in a low area with stones. All underground ...

I put a good size gap between the boards.

 

[D45]

I just sent an email to Azek..........hopefully they are good at fast replies

 

[D45]

AZEK replied and was done so in under an hour:

"Thank you for choosing AZEK Building Products. We do not necessarily recommend using joist protection. However using it should not affect the performance of our deck boards.
Please contact the manufacturer of the material to see if it can be used with PVC."

So, with this being said...........does anyone know if the rubber butyl flashing tape is PVC safe?

 

[Mr. Roboto]

AZEK replied and was done so in under an hour:

"Thank you for choosing AZEK Building Products. We do not necessarily recommend using joist protection. However using it should not affect the performance of our deck boards.
Please contact the manufacturer of the material to see if it can be used with PVC."

So, with this being said...........does anyone know if the rubber butyl flashing tape is PVC safe?

100% yes

 

[D45]

DeckWise said it is safe to use with PVC capped boards

 

[lakeroadster]

DeckWise said it is safe to use with PVC capped boards

 

[D45]

Ordered the AZEK boards yesterday.........the business said that I needed 25 boards to cover the width, does this seem right???

AZEK sells three boards, Vintage being the best, Arbor being the middle, and Heritage being the lower end (still rated excellent). I found a nice brownish-red in the Arbor collection.

I ended up going with a SOLID board and not a GROOVED board.....after speaking with the salesman about my setup and backyard

I was talked into getting the CAMO tool and CAMO screws, pretty neat idea.......no clip to worry about, just the tool and the screws. The tool sets the angle and the depth

http://www.camofasteners.com/

http://www.camofasteners.com/hidden-deck-fastening-system/

With a free delivery charge, I wont have to find a trailer for the 20' long boards

I also ordered 3 of the AZEK matching facsia/trim boards and screws

Should be ordered tomorrow and they get shipments in from AZEK every Thursday

0% for 48 will be affordable!

 

[lakeroadster]

I was talked into getting the CAMO tool and CAMO screws, pretty neat idea.......no clip to worry about, just the tool and the screws. The tool sets the angle and the depth

So what do they recommend in limited access locations, like up against a wall? Just run the fastener through the deck board from the top?

Attaching the deck boards by just using the lower corner seems problematic. These composite boards don't have a lot strength and when they start expanding and contracting... will these corner attachments result in deck board attachment failures?

Does AZEK approve of CAMO? Not that salesman... but AZEK themselves.

 

[yeldogt]

The CAMO tool is slick -- I have used. Just make sure proved with the Azex.

Are all quality of the Azex constructed the same way? When i did mine it was more a color and performance coating (fad) vs actual quality.

I would also skip the tape on the the boards -- thesis another one fthoses items that make me wonder about === it's a solution chasing an problem I have never seen. Wood likes to breath and dry out.

 

[D45]

Yes, AZEK told me that the CAMO system is approved for use and warranty coverage

https://azek.com/docs/technical/Fastening_Quad_Fold_Brochure_2014_REV.pdf


All Azek boards are constructed the same way, but some collections have more of a texture and different color choices

Warranty is better with the Arbor and Vintage line, Alloy Armour Technology which provides a 30-year Fade and Stain and Lifetime Limited Warranties

Harvest line just has a "lifetime warranty" and nothing regarding fade

 

[D45]

25 boards were delivered.........I just put them all on the deck, without any gaps or spacing

I think I might be ONE boards short.......time will tell

I am going to start at the edge and work towards the house

I figure this way if I am one short and the last board needs to be ripped length wise, it will partially be concealed under the lip

I went with Azek Arbor collection (mid grade) in Mountain Redwood

https://azek.com/products/decking/arbor-decking-collection

It has red tint in it, to match the back patio door but looks like a brown also

I also got match screws for the decking and the fascia

 

[lakeroadster]

All those little gaps add up in a hurry. Assuming a 1/4" gap.... x 25... that's 6-1/4"...

And there ya go.. that accounts for no need for that extra board.

 

[D45]

I believe the camo tool does 1/8, that that will cover around 4-1/2 over the width........I don't think it will be enough

I think I need around 5"

Not going to worry about it, I will start and work towards the house..........hopefully get a good portion done Friday and see where I end up by Sunday.

Rain is in the forecast on the weekend, so I will see how good I am on Friday

If I need one more, then I need one more......no worries

 

[D45]

The Azek fascia boards are installed..........the boards trimmed easy and clean with a jigsaw and a circular saw

Cutting and trimming it around the concrete pad was nerve racking, but I measured 10 times and cut once. It looks nice to have one piece/no seams on this area. Looks clean

I also cut all 25 boards to length and was surprised that even though I ordered 20' boards, none were 20' and the ends were horribly un-square. All had to be cut square so they fit flush on both ends......a little upset but oh well

The stainless color matched trim screws were so nice.......no predilling and no "mushrooming" of the composite. They were in EASY and look great

 

[D45]

Camo tool:

I bought way too many, but it was cheaper than buying 3 of the smaller boxes......keep a few and sell the rest, along with the Camo tool when I a done?

Fascia boards installed and top deck boards cut to length. I cut the boards so there is a 1/2" lip on the ends, to help cover the top of the fascia and it just looks better

 

[D45]

Its raining out good right now, I was hoping to get some deck boards installed.......might have to wait till my upcoming 3 day weekend

Any suggestions on starting the first board? I assume start farthest away from the house and work towards the house. I know I want to had a small lip on the first board, again to cover the top of the edge fascia.........but I am concerned about lines and making it straight as I get closer to the house. I know the last board will have to be ripped length-wise and trimmed, because it seems like there is a 1/2" difference.

However, the last board that will be at the house, is partially covered and will actually slip under the wall. So I don't think it is that crucial

Can I just start with the first board (farthest away from the house) and make sure the lip is the same the entire length, and screw it down? Obviously then each board will follow

 

[lakeroadster]

Really looks nice... did you have to buy another board?

 

[Stuart in MN]

Looks nice having all full length boards without any joints in the middle.

 

[D45]

I ended up needing 26 boards.....25 full boards and one boards ripped to 3-3/4" wide

Thankfully, the 26th board fit in my truck, with the front window of the cap open and the rear slider open. The front of the board was about 1" from the windshield and it hung out past the tailgate about 4'-5'

When Azek shipped this single board to the local lumber yard, they shrink wrapped it to a VERY NICE 2x6x20........which they let me keep. Small score for mankind

Well the deck is all done........for the most part. The CAMO works very well, except for the board I had to rip to size and obviously the last full size board, just because there was not enough room to clamp get access to the jig holes up against the house

No big deal, I just predrilled angled holes and used the same CAMO screws

I called 6 local places that does siding, and they are all booked till the end of the year....no big deal I guess, since the houses original wood siding is under the vinyl siding, so it should be ok till Spring, right?........I might just find some scrap pieces of house wrap and cover the exposed areas, to help protection what is exposed

Ripping the Azek deck boards was a mess, thankfully I had a face shield and used my compressor to blow off everything

 

[D45]

The ONLY thing I really still need to think about is what to do, to help secure the last deck board, at the end/edge of the deck. I wanted a small 5/8" lip, to create a better look and to help cover up the Azek fascia. Well when doing so, I was only able to use the CAMO tool on the inner part of the deck........the board is pretty secure, but not SOLID like I want. Any creative ideas here? My only solution is to buy some 2" Azek fascia board screws and use them like a traditional deck screw/board install, and screw down this last board from the top. It will be rock solid this way, but it will also be the ONLY board with somewhat visible screws, even though they are color matched.

 

[D45]

I think the color I went with is perfect

 

[JimH74]

Turned out nice!

 

[lakeroadster]

Deck is looking good D45. Something to be proud of.

...I was only able to use the CAMO tool on the inner part of the deck........the board is pretty secure, but not SOLID like I want. Any creative ideas here?

Using your Camo tool as an example make a drill guide out of a piece of scrap decking.

Drill the holes with the drill guide, then free hand install the screws.

Be careful shoveling snow.. make sure your snow shovel has a plastic edge, not metal, and make sure it doesn't gouge the deck.

As for the siding..... why not cut the siding and install some of the deck boards there too? I can pretty much assure you that when the siding folks do come out.... when their done the new siding won;t match whatever is on your house.

 

[D45]

Maybe I didn't explain it well

For the last board, farthest away from the house.........this board has a 5/8" lip, covering the fascia

I only used the CAMO tool on the inner part of the board, not on the outer part

Yes, I could have used the camo tool on both sides of the board, but if I used it on the outer side, you would see 16 small holes (for the "hidden" screws)

The last board is secure, but not SOLID. I am concerned that over time, people will use the last board more and more and step on the lip more and more

I was thinking about using this, and screwing the last board down through the top:
https://www.fastenmaster.com/produc...g/cortex-hidden-fastening-system-decking.html

This is also cool, because they have color matched plugs that hammer into the screw hole..........BUT NOT IN MY DECK COLOR!!!! The plugs also have texture that match the Azek boards. Oh well............next idea

So........what are my other options? I was thinking about using a SS composite deck screw through the top of the board, like with the Cortex system. It would make the board ROCK SOLID going through the top of this last board. Then, with my spare scraps, somehow make my own plugs to cover up the holes and color match.......logical or not?

Anyone else make a hidden screw and plug kit?