Old House - Need to Heat Garage

[BQuicksilver]

After reading about three pages of threads here, I found myself not gravitating toward any one option in particular, so I felt that maybe if I laid out what I'm working with you could help me find direction.

My wife and I recently purchsed our first home in an historic district of town. The home has a 2 car 400sq ft garage from 1946. The slab looks good, and we are seriously considering expanding the garage to a 3 car/600sq ft unit in the coming years. 3 walls are insulated, but the garage doors and roof currently are not. We will insulate the ceiling, but for $$ reasons 'may' try to get away with keeping the doors as is. Tell me if I'm way out of line there. I know full insulation is always best, but my understanding is that new doors are $$$$.

HVAC Unit:
We're in Indianapolis, with both warm (not unbearable) summers and cold winters that spend plenty of time below freezing.

The garage was obviously not a workspace for the previous owner, and we would have to run 240V out from the basement to the garage for an electric unit or gas out from the basement for a gas heater. Obviously the gas line is a bigger job, but I really want to do things as best possible on a budget. Most likely, I will tear out an re-insulate and rewire everything soon.

What would you do? Is gas heat worth the extra work in terms of monthly bills? Size of heating unit and AC recommended? A/C worth it since I'd likely need to cut into a brick/block wall?

The hotel units sounded good for the ease of use and built in AC, but I hate to give up floor space.

The gas heaters I know work great, but require vents, new gas lines (+inspection?), and would still need AC maybe? That all being said, they just seem like the 'right' way to do the job.

Electric seems simple overall, but I'm not sure how much pricier they are to run vs gas, and I still have no AC.

I'm not terribly interesting in more temporary options. I want something that will keep the garage at 50-55 and be able to get it to 65 in a timely manner.

 

[MyDomain]

I would recommend a mini-split unit, one of the IAQ Heat Pump models. Upfront may be a bit more but well worth it in efficincy, space savings and quality.

http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/wallmountediaq.htm

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I would recommend a mini-split unit, one of the IAQ Heat Pump models. Upfront may be a bit more but well worth it in efficincy, space savings and quality.

http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/wallmountediaq.htm

I don't think 24,000 will be big enough to heat your garage unless you fully insulate it and replace the doors with insulated doors.

To me, this question boils down to "how much do you want to spend?".

If A/C is in the cards, A "for real" heat pump with ductwork would be a good solution. High efficiency heat pumps are currently very cost effective vs natural gas/propane, due to the high cost of gas right now. The newer heat pumps (COP of 3.0 or higher) are going to probably be cheaper to heat with and give you a/c too. The downsides of heat pump "heat" would be the draftyness and cooler air discharge temperature, but for keeping a garage at 60 degrees, I don't think this would even be an issue.

If you are wanting to do this "on the cheap" then a gas unit heater and a used window style a/c unit would be the way to go. This would be effective if you only intend to run the heat and a/c occasionally, because although it will be more expensive to run, the first cost will be much lower.

One more thing....heating an unattached partially insulated garage 100% of the time to 60 degrees could easily cost $150 a month during an Indiana winter. I've seen several people double their home's gas bills trying to do this.

Phil

 

[BQuicksilver]

To me, this question boils down to "how much do you want to spend?".

Ouch, I was hoping I wouldn't see this sentence here.

Honestly, I really do like mydomain's rec from the perspective of it being a very clean install. It sounds idea *IF* your concerns of the garage being insulated enough are met. Any idea how much that unit costs? For clarification, it uses electric to do both heat and a/c...not gas?

I think it's safe to say insulating the ceiling is going to be done after spending some time with the btu calculators, though I'd like to get away with my uninsulated garage doors (maybe new weatherstripping) at least this winter unless it's going to double my energy useage.

Phil, could you give some examples of real heat pumps? I'm not too familiar with them. Do they work well in our cold indiana weather?

 

[MyDomain]

There is a good load calc program, kwik way, here http://spacepak.com/html/hvac_contractor_installation.htm

 

[HoosierBuddy]

By "for real" heat pump....I just meant a unit like this:

That's an air-to-air heat pump suitable to heat and cool a small home.

I spent the last 10 years working in an unheated/uncooled barn in southern Indiana, before just finishing an attached garage project. It kind 'o *****, so I know where you are coming from.

Good Luck!

Phil

 

[BQuicksilver]

Cost on all these things would be very helpful.

An idea of gas vs electric vs heat pump running costs would also be helpful.

 

[MyDomain]

This may help a bit.

http://hvacopcost.com/

As far as cost you would have to call your local HVAC companies and get quotes.

 

[Climatecreator]

Heat pumps are inefficient in the north. And as far as a gas line goes it is just as easy as running wire if you use tracpipe or gastite flexible lines if they are allowed in your area. You might consider a separate heat and AC system or a wall heater like an armstrong with gas heat.

just my 02

CC

 

[RAYJAY]

I myself would go with the gas for heating , I have a Resnor forced gas heater in my garage, (run the gas line you will never be sorry you did) when you do install the heater double size the btu's for the area heating, is cheaper and more comfortable in the long run (shorter burn time to get area up to temp faster ) and run a 40 deg thermastat so you can drop the area down to a lower temp but keep it above freezing (my garage and my fathers garage is set up like this)


if the garage doors are not that bad .... you could insulated them for the time being with hard foam to help out with heat loss

pictures of the doors and garage would help

Jeff

 

[PAToyota]

Heat pumps are inefficient in the north.

If you are using air to air units - ground source is an entirely different ballgame...