To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Old lady needs help with garage attic

JudyDinsmore

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2022
Messages
9
Location
Buffalo, MN
Hello. I live in MN and have a 25 x 22 garage - finished with drywall and all. But the attic...I'm wondering if using my garage heater is working overtime because the attic is not insulated. But I also need to put a floor down to use as storage. Are there areas I should avoid insulation or floor for ventilation? Any advice would be good. If there is anyone in the buffalo, MN area - I would love some help! 812CDC3B-FD84-4F29-9C03-B1621B76ECC5_1_201_a.jpeg
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

jack stand

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
3,353
Location
Lakes Region Maine
Judy unfortunately that's built only to hold up the roof and very minor light "stuff" just like what I see in your pictures. A floor is really not recomend for that particular (and very common) construction method.
Yes with no insulation any heater is going to work hard and the heat (and money) is basically lost very quickly.
Sorry to put a damper on your plans but I'd hate for you to have an accident and get hurt over loading structure beyond its intended use.
 

billconner

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 20, 2021
Messages
6,971
Location
Thousand Islands NYS
I agree. Build/buy a shed or find some other place to store that stuff - that which you can't get rid of - and put in a ceiling and a lot of insulation on top of ceiling - like a foot or so of cellulose or other. More details but thats a concept. My 2 cents.
 

JEFFREYWisconsin

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2021
Messages
380
Call an insulation company and have them shoot closed cell foam insulation. In my opinion you can’t go wrong with it.
 

Firebrick43

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
14,166
Location
West central Indiana
Call an insulation company and have them shoot closed cell foam insulation. In my opinion you can’t go wrong with it.
???. If there are cathedral ceilings or you conditioning an attic due to hvac equipment installed up there then ok. But you can go wrong with your pocket book when a standard truss/ceiling can have r60 cellulose or rockwool installed a whole lot cheaper than spray foam with little to no difference in performance if installed by competent people.
 

dfiler2

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
2,859
Location
NW Minnesota
Hi Judy, I'm in MN too but a few hundred miles "Nort" of you. I agree with the others, find somewhere else to store those items. Then go to Menards and rent their blow in insulation machine and put at least 24" of insulation up there. You will be amazed at what that will do for you.
 

jkuro

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
552
Hi Judy, I'm in MN too but a few hundred miles "Nort" of you. I agree with the others, find somewhere else to store those items. Then go to Menards and rent their blow in insulation machine and put at least 24" of insulation up there. You will be amazed at what that will do for you.
If you do this. Make sure you install the proper soffit vent baffles before you blow in the insulation.
 

brownbagg

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
5,208
throw all that stuff away, dont use the attic to store stuff, blow about two foot of insulation of there and leave it alone.
 

JEFFREYWisconsin

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2021
Messages
380
???. If there are cathedral ceilings or you conditioning an attic due to hvac equipment installed up there then ok. But you can go wrong with your pocket book when a standard truss/ceiling can have r60 cellulose or rockwool installed a whole lot cheaper than spray foam with little to no difference in performance if installed by competent people
I guess I was under the mistaken impression that she was able to and was going to use it as storage and wanted access. I have a cottage with a similar set up, attic has some light storage, I had the gable walls and and roof deck shot in foam. It’s very clean, draft-free, maintains a good temperature year round , and added some minor structural integrity to the roof according to my architect friend. It still allows access without wading through feet of of insulation.

I am unsure of the cost in some areas, but the company I had do mine wasn’t crazy out of line a couple years ago, maybe that has changed.
 
Last edited:

Firebrick43

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
14,166
Location
West central Indiana
I guess I was under the mistaken impression that she was able to and was going to use it as storage and wanted access. I have a cottage with a similar set up, attic has some light storage, I had the gable walls and and roof deck shot in foam. It’s very clean, draft-free, maintains a good temperature year round , and added some minor structural integrity to the roof according to my architect friend. It still allows access without wading through feet of of insulation.

I am unsure of the cost in some areas, but the company I had do mine wasn’t crazy out of line a couple years ago, maybe that has changed.
Problem is that trusses like her is rated for any storage. Only rated for the weight of ceiling/insulation.
 

billconner

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 20, 2021
Messages
6,971
Location
Thousand Islands NYS
I guess I was under the mistaken impression that she was able to and was going to use it as storage and wanted access. I have a cottage with a similar set up, attic has some light storage, I had the gable walls and and roof deck shot in foam. It’s very clean, draft-free, maintains a good temperature year round , and added some minor structural integrity to the roof according to my architect friend. It still allows access without wading through feet of of insulation.

I am unsure of the cost in some areas, but the company I had do mine wasn’t crazy out of line a couple years ago, maybe that has changed.
How did you cover for code and fire? Seems challenging with truss webs.
 

JEFFREYWisconsin

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2021
Messages
380
As I recall, the were a lot of somewhat complicated issues with code in my area and the spaces that I used spray foam. If I recall correctly, it mostly had to do with living space definitions and what was required as a thermal barrier and where it was required. I am not the best person to explain what we ended up doing especially when it has already been determined I was wrong in recommending that foam be used in this application. No sense in complicating the issue, other than to say, our situation resolved in code compliance.
 

PoorUB

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
11,695
Location
Fargo, ND
Hello. I live in MN and have a 25 x 22 garage - finished with drywall and all. But the attic...I'm wondering if using my garage heater is working overtime because the attic is not insulated.
Judy, like others have said, those attic trusses are not meant to hold any more that the ceiling and insulation. Sure you can toss in a bit of Christmas decorations, but seriously, it isn't designed for it. If it were me I would remove the clutter and have someone blow in fiberglass and store your items elsewhere.

Also have some thought about how much of that stuff do you really need? It might be refreshing to just donate a bunch of it.

May people will add a high shelf, about two feet down from the ceiling all around the garage then buy storage containers to store items on the shelf.
 

Zeke

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
17,176
Location
Long Beach CA, the sewer by the sea.
Two things: (a) renting a machine and buying insulation isn't much cheaper (if at all) than hiring it done. (b) When blown in insulation is used it's hard to create access through that mess. Better to shoot it and close it up and leave it alone. Storing even the lightest things will help compress the insulation and it will be less effective.
Judy doesn't mention why she's heating the garage but she may work out there and need some heat. So look at the garage door too along with any other doors and windows. The first objective in insulating is to stop air movement (convection) and then address heat loss (conduction).
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
J

JudyDinsmore

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2022
Messages
9
Location
Buffalo, MN
Judy unfortunately that's built only to hold up the roof and very minor light "stuff" just like what I see in your pictures. A floor is really not recomend for that particular (and very common) construction method.
Yes with no insulation any heater is going to work hard and the heat (and money) is basically lost very quickly.
Sorry to put a damper on your plans but I'd hate for you to have an accident and get hurt over loading structure beyond its intended use.
Thank you so much for letting me know! I will get a professional to insulate right away. I may put down some 1/2" plywood so someone could walk up there to just store some christmas decorations?
 
OP
J

JudyDinsmore

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2022
Messages
9
Location
Buffalo, MN
Two things: (a) renting a machine and buying insulation isn't much cheaper (if at all) than hiring it done. (b) When blown in insulation is used it's hard to create access through that mess. Better to shoot it and close it up and leave it alone. Storing even the lightest things will help compress the insulation and it will be less effective.
Judy doesn't mention why she's heating the garage but she may work out there and need some heat. So look at the garage door too along with any other doors and windows. The first objective in insulating is to stop air movement (convection) and then address heat loss (conduction).
Thank you, Zeke! I would love to get my garage door a bit more insulated. I only heat to about 42 but only turn the heat on when it hits 0. I really just keep the car reasonably warm and do a few projects out there but nothing for hours on end.
 
OP
J

JudyDinsmore

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2022
Messages
9
Location
Buffalo, MN
Judy, like others have said, those attic trusses are not meant to hold any more that the ceiling and insulation. Sure you can toss in a bit of Christmas decorations, but seriously, it isn't designed for it. If it were me I would remove the clutter and have someone blow in fiberglass and store your items elsewhere.

Also have some thought about how much of that stuff do you really need? It might be refreshing to just donate a bunch of it.

May people will add a high shelf, about two feet down from the ceiling all around the garage then buy storage containers to store items on the shelf.
Thank you for replying! Most of what is up there is just empty storage bins (for moving). Probably 100 of them or so. And just Christmas decor. Do you think if I put down 1/2" plywood and distributed the weight - i could get about 300# up there? I see on the thread that I definitely need to get it insulated. I also think I may have to do that to the garage door, somehow. But I'm now looking at building a shed...I hope someone affordable pours concrete and could do it in winter!
 
OP
J

JudyDinsmore

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2022
Messages
9
Location
Buffalo, MN
Judy unfortunately that's built only to hold up the roof and very minor light "stuff" just like what I see in your pictures. A floor is really not recomend for that particular (and very common) construction method.
Yes with no insulation any heater is going to work hard and the heat (and money) is basically lost very quickly.
Sorry to put a damper on your plans but I'd hate for you to have an accident and get hurt over loading structure beyond its intended use.
Jack - thank you so much. I guess when I said "floor" - I just meant so I'm not stepping on the studs like an acrobat. Just something to slide those empty bins on. Do you think 1/2" ply would hold up 400 or so pounds if evenly distributed? It is mostly empty bins but a lot of christmas. 250 pounds is more accurate but want to be careful about it. I also see I should have someone do some spray insulation!
 
OP
J

JudyDinsmore

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2022
Messages
9
Location
Buffalo, MN
Judy,
you’re never an “old lady”, you’re always a “beautiful woman.”
You’ll get good advice here !!
YOun are right about the advice! I can't beleive how many responded in just a few hours. And they all seem to have the same advice which makes this so much less stressful when deciding what to do. I'll listen to the experts!
 

Firebrick43

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
14,166
Location
West central Indiana
Judy, its hard to tell if your trusses are 16" on center or 24" on center. If 16" on center 1/2 ply will allow you to walk. If 24" on center then 1/2" is to light, would step up to at least 5/8.

I would not place 300 pounds up there as storage weight, empty totes yes, maybe 150 lbs if well spread out.
 

PoorUB

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
11,695
Location
Fargo, ND
Thank you for replying! Most of what is up there is just empty storage bins (for moving). Probably 100 of them or so. And just Christmas decor. Do you think if I put down 1/2" plywood and distributed the weight - i could get about 300# up there? I see on the thread that I definitely need to get it insulated. I also think I may have to do that to the garage door, somehow. But I'm now looking at building a shed...I hope someone affordable pours concrete and could do it in winter!
Trying to plywood the whole attic floor will be and expensive undertaking and it limits the amount of insulation you can put up there. Some attic trusses have a bit of an open area in the center and perhaps you could run some plywood there, but I sure would bother to try cover it all. It would be quite an undertaking.

Also, like I mentioned it limits the amount of insulation. If it were a house you might blow in about two feet of insulation. The lower run of the truss is probably four inches, no where near the recomended amount of insulation. Pretty much why my recomendation is to blow it ful of insulation and store the items elsewhere.
 

Innovate1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
4,291
Location
Illinois near St. Louis, Missouri
Thank you so much for letting me know! I will get a professional to insulate right away. I may put down some 1/2" plywood so someone could walk up there to just store some christmas decorations?
I added some cross pieces (2 x 4) at the center of the truss just above where the top of the insulation would be (but easier to put in before the insulation). Then put some plywood on that. I just did a walkway down the middle. If you put the plywood directly on the bottom of the truss you only have room for 3.5" of insulation which is better than nothing but not really enough to do a good job. As others have said you should only put very light stuff up there and the temptation is to add a bit more and a bit more and you don't realize how much it add up. But the walkway makes if much easier to access things to add a wire for something and such like.

As to ventilation, you need insulation baffles at the eaves between each truss. Otherwise there will be heat transfer to the roof and you will get ice dams and leaks when snow is on the roof. You want the ceiling sealed but the attic space ventilated. Most code calls for an access panel that is usually just a piece of drywall or plywood that drops into a frame. When you need to access you just push up the panel. With high insulation you need in your climate creating a frame around the access that goes up to a bit above the insulation will keep the insulation in the attic and not falling out when you use the access. Some rigid foam on the top of the access cover will reduce heat loss.
 

brownbagg

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
5,208
plywood not cheap, no where near cheap. just close it up and add insulation, plywood would compress the insulation. plywood would cost you over a $1000 at today prices
 

K'ledgeBldr

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
1,925
Location
Johns Creek, GA
A truss attic is definitely not a storage dumping ground!

Is this a detached garage?
Why are you heating it? What are you heating with (fuel)? And to what temperature are you trying to achieve?

If you’re just trying to keep it above freezing for a vehicle or two- have you considered block heaters?

Since the attic isn’t insulated, it would be a fair assumption that the walls are also NOT insulated. If you were to insulate the attic, it would only perform to about half its capability- ultimately, insulating is not a good ROI.

If you’re just heating when you/people are inside doing other tasks- just heat as needed. There’s probably no reasonable reason for 24/7 heating capability.
 

Zeke

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
17,176
Location
Long Beach CA, the sewer by the sea.
Trusses are definitely not designed for storage but they aren't toothpicks either. I'm sure most trusses are engineered to carry a 2nd layer of roof as many will do an overlay to save money.

I still think the insulation will hamper your ability to use the space for much storage. However, if you are determined, you could install some catwalks and slide empty plastic containers down each run. I'd insulate and install these catwalks (really 'crawl-walks') elevated to float over the insulation. You would do this by addling lateral blocking to place the walks.

I have a hook on the end of a paint extension pole. I can poke my head and shoulders up inside the attic and pull things to me. When I put them back I just line them up and push them down the walk. No need to actually be up there yourself.

There was a comment about ringing the garage with shelves about the 6 foot line, or just low enough to put containers all along the upper walls. This is the best system. Each container can be labeled and you can see what is what from the ground. A lot of the weight is carried by the wall, and if braced from below, all the weight is on the wall. Better yet, your storage items won't be at zero degrees.....ever.

Edit: I just realized the I was repeating what @Innovate1 has already said about elevating any 'walks'.
 
Last edited:

jack stand

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
3,353
Location
Lakes Region Maine
Judy I don't think any of us want you in the roof, that's what it is, not an attic or storage space and it's certainly not safe to be walking crouched over and carrying something. One misstep and there's lots of things to knock your head on and you could easily fall through the ceiling and onto the concrete below.
Now don't make us raise our voices to you, be a good girl and go get the shelves Zeke was talking about above. 🥰
 

CraigStu

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2014
Messages
4,046
Location
Blacksburg, Va
I think some 3/8 plywood could be used but here is the difficulty w/ that. We don't know for sure how Judy accesses that attic but it would be real rare that a sheet of plywood could be maneuvered into position. Many times the best you can do is get a 2'x4' (1/4 of a sheet) piece up there
 
OP
J

JudyDinsmore

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2022
Messages
9
Location
Buffalo, MN
Judy I don't think any of us want you in the roof, that's what it is, not an attic or storage space and it's certainly not safe to be walking crouched over and carrying something. One misstep and there's lots of things to knock your head on and you could easily fall through the ceiling and onto the concrete below.
Now don't make us raise our voices to you, be a good girl and go get the shelves Zeke was talking about above. 🥰
That's why I let my son-in-law do all the garage nonsense!
 
OP
J

JudyDinsmore

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2022
Messages
9
Location
Buffalo, MN
A truss attic is definitely not a storage dumping ground!

Is this a detached garage?
Why are you heating it? What are you heating with (fuel)? And to what temperature are you trying to achieve?

If you’re just trying to keep it above freezing for a vehicle or two- have you considered block heaters?

Since the attic isn’t insulated, it would be a fair assumption that the walls are also NOT insulated. If you were to insulate the attic, it would only perform to about half its capability- ultimately, insulating is not a good ROI.

If you’re just heating when you/people are inside doing other tasks- just heat as needed. There’s probably no reasonable reason for 24/7 heating capability.
Hi! Thank you much for your reply. It's mostly keeping empty storage bins and boxes (for future moves). I will keep Christmas up there but I put it up against the back wall. I don't intend on walking up there (my son-in-law does that, but only to retrieve something. It's 25' long. When the weather gets to 15 degreen F or lower, I will put the heat on to about 42. It's to keep a few things from freezing. So any amount of efficiency would be great but I certainly don't want to over do it. I'm so confused! but I am understanding one thing is clear - don't put a lot of weight. I just want stong enough plywood to let someone walk up and grab something.
 

mepstein

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
1,290
I would get estimates to insulate and find storage in another location. Maybe some shelving around the walls of the garage.
 

bugnut

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
3,981
Location
Central Ohio
@JudyDinsmore Lets add a little sanity to this. My two car garage has no living space above it. I store all of the 15 or 20 totes and the tree in the attic. Rafters are 2 foot apart and 7/16 particle board is utilized to walk on and move totes about. The space consumed is about 10x20 feet. I have to crouch to walk but manage nicely. No single tote is over about 40lbs. I carry the totes up a pull down attic ladder and my lard ***, with the tote, one at a time I am near the weight limit on the stairs. These are stacked 2 high in most places and 3 high in some. Yes, this compresses the insulation. MILLIONS of people do this and the daily news is not filled with tragic stories following a lifetime spring snow fall, of heavy wet snow, (we have had 18" in one spring snow), on a two or thee shingle thick roof caving in. In my OPINION, putting insulation in, and a few boards to store the Christmas and Holiday totes, and a few empties is not an issue at all.
The blown in insulation, with baffles , mentioned by others works fine for this.
 

laser3kw

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
7,276
Location
northen IL
Mine was insulated across the joists and up the rafters with an air space on the rafters for airflow. I am heating a 1200sq ft with 30000 btu propane construction heater when I am out there.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom