Old red iron steel building.

[nickhare_21]

Hello all,

I may have the opportunity to embark on a journey of way more work than I should take on, but I’m too dumb to realize it.

I possibly have the chance to get a large old steel building for free if I just disassemble it. (My idea) it’s about 40’ x 120’ x 14’ in size. I will have access to a man lift and large excavator. A block building was built up to one side but is free standing. The wall panels seem really cool. About 2’x3’ and just assembled together with wedge pins. I feel like I know it would be an enormous amount of work but I don’t realize just how much work it could/will be.

I wanted to ask about it on here as it seems to be a very unique building and I wanted to share and maybe learn something. Not sure of the manufacturer of it or when it was built.

 

[Joemctag]

I’d like to comment on just one aspect of a project like this.
It’s definitely a cool building and a lot of us would love to have such a space. Besides figuring out how much is involved in dismantling and re-erecting it, where were you thinking you could re-build it? Or were you thinking of storing it for a time and maybe selling it?
Most areas will require a building permit and zoning approval. Being a fabricated-steel building, they’ll want “engineering” which is a registered engineer’s certification that the rebuilt structure will meet today’s standards, including foundation plans. So the building doesn’t fall down or collapse from snow or wind. You’re not the first person to have considered something like this. Some on this forum recently stated that such engineering for old buildings could be gotten readily. Others said that their engineers probably wouldnt touch such a project.
The building DOES appear to be in excellent shape where it counts; no seriously corroded/compromised structural elements.
Apparently, in some jurisdictions, you could re-erect that without engineering if it were just agricultural; no human occupation.
Remember that often the electric utility won’t hook up power to a new building that doesn’t have its permits and stuff done as they’re supposed to be.
Well, good luck and let us hear how it goes.
I’ll add that everywhere there are rivets, they were done in the shop. The bolted connections were done on site. Maybe those roof trusses came in two pieces on trucks, we’re bolted together flat on the slab, and then raised into position with a crane or a tele-handler ( big forklift they use to erect buildings. Very common ).
Because it’s a cool building with a history, your post will get a lot of attention on this forum. You WILL get some good advice from members who are pretty much experts in what you’re considering.

 

[Mr onetwo]

In younger days I often fantasized about something like this, but this doesn't look like a one man job to me.I would be very concerned about working alone if something happened.Safety must be your first concern unless you have a death wish.Also, how do you access the building from ground level and is the floor sturdy enough to handle the weight of a good sized lift?The excavator will be pretty useless for most of the dismantling. Is hiring a crane periodically in the budget?You will need a large bucket lift outside also. How do you propose to strip the panels off the building alone without dropping and damaging them? You need someone inside and outside to release them I would say.Something else to consider...do you have to demo and remove the foundations as part of the deal?Backfilling? That is a deal breaker. If it was me I would see about hiring a steel building crew for a week to get as much taken down as possible, then finish up on the lower stuff.Remember, there is no free lunch....it is a free building for a reason.

 

[davejo]

Pretty interesting project. The wood floor might be valuable. Watch out for hidden stuff like adhesive between the panels which can turn into a nightmare. the wall panels might be impossible to get apart without destroying the mating edges. YOu cant just stack the roof panels as you take them down because the edges where they are glued gets bent and then sticks together when placed in a stack.

Buy a case of the huge sharpie pens and figure out a logical way to mark every component to be reassembled as it sits now. There are probably a few spots where stuff was modified to get it put together even though it looks like interchangeable standard components.

Take more pictures and measurements of it standing than you think you need. Use the excavator to expose the footers for analysis. Id be tempted to take the footers with me

Make sure the place wasn't used to manufacture brake linings or something else nasty hiding between the floor planks in the "crawl space". Assume all paint is lead based and all adhesives and caulking to be hazardous

 

[ycgoat]

I have done a few industrial restoration projects and have found that between the time tools equipment and materials (such as paint and sealer). If I had bought new, I would have had a better product for less money and much sooner. The one advantage is I can make it look the way I want.

 

[zkdiesel]

That building is too poor of shape for me to consider that proposition.
And I’ve moved and rebuilt 3

 

[jack stand]

Find a partner, each gets half and 40x60 is still a nice building.
It's got great "bones" but is a massive project even scrapping the exterior tin.
Dream big!

 

[readhead]

I think the main issue as mentioned is what can be done with it. Age wise I’m guessing around the ‘20s. The frame seems to be in good shape. The panels are pretty rough and replacing them could kill the project. I say that because installing modern sheets on that frame would take away the soul of that building.

If someone came to me and asked how much to take it down I would be T&M not to exceed 250K. That is with all the material left on site for someone else to transport.

 

[nickhare_21]

Thank you all for the input. I’m definitely not 100% committed to the project yet. I had read a thread recently on here and zoning/engineering seemed to be main concern. I have property that it would be erected on out in the country where I live with a couple different ideas for use. As someone said break into smaller dimension and use as actual garage or my wife and I want to open a wedding venue and this seems like such an awesome building. Obviously that’s where the engineering/zoning aspect would be a huge factor. I have access to multiple pieces of equipment for removal and site cleanup. There are some of the wall panels that are in rough shape but whatever we used it for they would be cleaned/painted. 1/2 the sides have been protected from the elements for a while. I plan on taking everything in the pictures including the cool large plank floors and even the piers.

As far as I know the building belonged to a sheet metal fabrication and plumbing company. A co worker of mine thought it was also a building that belonged to a bakery.

 

[nickhare_21]

In younger days I often fantasized about something like this, but this doesn't look like a one man job to me.I would be very concerned about working alone if something happened.Safety must be your first concern unless you have a death wish.Also, how do you access the building from ground level and is the floor sturdy enough to handle the weight of a good sized lift?The excavator will be pretty useless for most of the dismantling. Is hiring a crane periodically in the budget?You will need a large bucket lift outside also. How do you propose to strip the panels off the building alone without dropping and damaging them? You need someone inside and outside to release them I would say.Something else to consider...do you have to demo and remove the foundations as part of the deal?Backfilling? That is a deal breaker. If it was me I would see about hiring a steel building crew for a week to get as much taken down as possible, then finish up on the lower stuff.Remember, there is no free lunch....it is a free building for a reason.

Thank you for the response. I plan on having help along the way. Especially when it comes to the trusses. The way I’ve thought it out in my head that will be the biggest task. Hoping to get a “crew” together one weekend that will be able to come help get them knocked out in a day. Did I mention the building is 90 miles from where I want to reconstruct it? Lol. I just keep adding on the red flags. I’ll have a JLG style manlift to use disassemble the panels. I may get a skidder on the interior floor the demo the rooms that were built. The site it is at has plenty of spoil clay/roto-millings and access to large loader/dozer/hoe to get it all dressed up once down.

 

[Rusted Nut]

One of your photos shows 4 point nuts, but all others show round head bolts. Are these carriage bolts with 4 point nuts, or is the structure riveted? If it’s riveted, that’s going to take some time to bust all those out. You would need a crane to dismantle this thing safely.

 

[nickhare_21]

Find a partner, each gets half and 40x60 is still a nice building.
It's got great "bones" but is a massive project even scrapping the exterior tin.
Dream big!

Also an option. My brother in law would take half or 1/3. I don’t currently have a garage. Would make an awesome garage/pool house/storage building. Dressed up to match my homes aesthetic. Our “dream” with the building is a wedding venue on our property.

 

[nickhare_21]

One of your photos shows 4 point nuts, but all others show round head bolts. Are these carriage bolts with 4 point nuts, or is the structure riveted? If it’s riveted, that’s going to take some time to bust all those out. You would need a crane to dismantle this thing safely.

Walking through the building the pieces that would need disassembled can all be done by taking out the square nuts and bolts. I walked through building just to check see if I could remove bolts by hand, with just two crescent wrenches I could loosen them all. I should have a cat 330 or bigger hoe available. It might take some convincing but I may be able to get a picker brought in if needed.

 

[rsanter]

First check to see if closed will allow you to put the building back up and what are the limits.
If you need an engineering sign off then I would have the engineer look at the building before I took a single bolt out

Personally I think I would look at getting new roof and siding verses dealing with the old stuff with holes in it. I think I would use the old skin material for architectural or sell it

 

[Mr onetwo]

A cherry picker would be my first choice.I think those trusses need to be picked from the top with a spreader bar arraignment. If you tweak them they would be very hard to fix, if not impossible, because of the rivets.As long as you are being safe then I am all for this monumental task. This type of project is what GJ is all about.

 

[Fixr]

A cherry picker would be my first choice.I think those trusses need to be picked from the top with a spreader bar arraignment. If you tweak them they would be very hard to fix, if not impossible, because of the rivets.As long as you are being safe then I am all for this monumental task. This type of project is what GJ is all about.

Monumental is a pretty good word for it, especially if the workers involved don't have plenty of experience with buildings of that scale. I would definitely want someone along who has BTDT quite a lot in order to prevent non-obvious oopsies that end with funerals.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Random thoughts. This very old building may not meet 2024 structural standards for snow load, ect in your location....be sure to find out. If you are lucky you live in a rural area that has a minimum of oversight. Could be a deal breaker. Have you thought how expensive it will be to load and transport those 40ft trusses?

 

[The Cobbler]

I am all for repurposing, getting stuff for free etc.
I think that's a project that's much larger than it seems, will take a lot longer than expected, more trips than expected, and tons more labour than expected. More than a 2 or 3 person job with a few pickups & trailers I'd say.
If you do decide to go ahead, I hope you prove me wrong, and be sure to keep us posted here.

 

[Norcal]

Are permits required in your area? That can make or break things as engineering the building is not going to be cheap. ZKDiesel's comments are worth noting.

 

[WildBill]

I am all for repurposing, getting stuff for free etc.
I think that's a project that's much larger than it seems, will take a lot longer than expected, more trips than expected, and tons more labour than expected.
If you do decide to go ahead, I hope you prove me wrong, and be sure to keep us posted here.

I was typing almost the exact thing when you posted, you put it more gracefully though. I do things like this all the time to get free stuff and generally regret it, as do whatever suckers I trick into helping. Here's to hoping OP pulls it off without problems, its a really cool building. If I was closer I would help, maybe some GJ guys are near and can lend a hand. Would be really interesting.

 

[nickhare_21]

Random thoughts. This very old building may not meet 2024 structural standards for snow load, ect in your location....be sure to find out. If you are lucky you live in a rural area that has a minimum of oversight. Could be a deal breaker. Have you thought how expensive it will be to load and transport those 40ft trusses?

I’ve found out no permits or zoning is required in my area to reconstruct. I live in a rural area.

I work in an industry where I know a lot of trucking owner operators, I’ve talked to one of our main guys that said will do it for fuel cost, he’s that good of a guy. Obviously if we were able to accomplish this I’d pay him more than that lol. The building is on my way too and from work so I would drag a trailer behind my truck and get the stuff I can day by day. Waiting to hear from company ownership to get the blessing. If I get into it and just feel it’s impossible they will just demolish it.

I am definitely thinking about asking for a picker after all the comments. My plan was to use a large excavator with bucket off and a hook/shackle to pick from the top. Kind of work my way into the building.

I’m not a professional by any means at all. I’ve been in the construction industry for 16 years operating heavy equipment. I’ve looked it over and over trying to develop the safest way possible. I hope I have the help of a coworker that has disassembled/assembled a couple buildings for himself in the past.

I am definitely taking into account every comment whether it be informal, positive, or negative!

 

[Joemctag]

Random thoughts. This very old building may not meet 2024 structural standards for snow load, ect in your location....be sure to find out. If you are lucky you live in a rural area that has a minimum of oversight. Could be a deal breaker. Have you thought how expensive it will be to load and transport those 40ft trusses?

OP’s picture #3 shows square bolts ( and thus a field splice ) at bottom chord of truss. Trusses would have come in at least two pieces that were bolted together on site. Each truss probably assembled flat on the ground , then raised with one crane. Sounds like with your associates’ trucks and all, you might not want to break down the trusses at all.
My field was steel erection. I’d sure advise a good, thorough assessment with activities all planned out and everything, but that’s because I don’t like to run into unexpected trouble. There IS a kind of person who can successfully “ just jump in “, solving problems as they arise, and get the job done. Safely, of course.
Dismantling appears to be the same as it would be for a modern red iron building. Wall panels are special and original roof sheets ( these ? ) wouldn’t have been fastened with screws , or have lap sealer. Get the advice of someone who knows red-iron building erection if you feel you need it concerning any questions about what’s safe.

 

[nickhare_21]

That building is too poor of shape for me to consider that proposition.
And I’ve moved and rebuilt 3

This comment is weighing on me. I definitely didn’t just scroll past.

 

[nadogail]

Good Luck, I am sure you will be needing lots of it.

 

[readhead]

When erecting a building it is essential to be bracing as you go along. It is especially important when deconstructing that you keep bracing in place so you don’t have a catastrophic failure and injuries. Having been erecting steel for twenty four years now this is not something you should enter into lightly. An excavator is not an ideal choice. A crane can reach in and pick components and swing them completely out of the building to a safe loading area.
Please be safe. Free can be very expensive and painful.

 

[Mr onetwo]

You are getting a lot of great advice from people who have actual expertise and experience in this field (that's not me ).Good luck if you decide to proceed.

 

[cannuck]

The first thing I would consider is how are you going to insulate the building envelope (as you live in IL)?? My mentor has deconstructed, moved and rebuilt a fair number of older red iron and when current engineering required it can get expensive - which in your ag case not a problem. IMHO the out panel skins are beyond re-use and I would suggest re-skinning with MIPs (Metal Instulating Panels = "sandwhich board" of steel skins and poly iso core). The can fastern from behind with clips onto structural steel, so consult with an MIP manufacturer to see if the framework you have can be used to do so. Finally, buy a cheap old crane (no need to certify) and use for the job, sell it off in the end. WAY safer and cheaper than renting a large excavator.

 

[nickhare_21]

OP’s picture #3 shows square bolts ( and thus a field splice ) at bottom chord of truss. Trusses would have come in at least two pieces that were bolted together on site. Each truss probably assembled flat on the ground , then raised with one crane. Sounds like with your associates’ trucks and all, you might not want to break down the trusses at all.
My field was steel erection. I’d sure advise a good, thorough assessment with activities all planned out and everything, but that’s because I don’t like to run into unexpected trouble. There IS a kind of person who can successfully “ just jump in “, solving problems as they arise, and get the job done. Safely, of course.
Dismantling appears to be the same as it would be for a modern red iron building. Wall panels are special and original roof sheets ( these ? ) wouldn’t have been fastened with screws , or have lap sealer. Get the advice of someone who knows red-iron building erection if you feel you need it concerning any questions about what’s safe.

Correct, I do not plan on breaking down the trusses. If for some reason I’m forced to for transport, I would once they are on the ground.

 

[nickhare_21]

The first thing I would consider is how are you going to insulate the building envelope (as you live in IL)?? My mentor has deconstructed, moved and rebuilt a fair number of older red iron and when current engineering required it can get expensive - which in your ag case not a problem. IMHO the out panel skins are beyond re-use and I would suggest re-skinning with MIPs (Metal Instulating Panels = "sandwhich board" of steel skins and poly iso core). The can fastern from behind with clips onto structural steel, so consult with an MIP manufacturer to see if the framework you have can be used to do so. Finally, buy a cheap old crane (no need to certify) and use for the job, sell it off in the end. WAY safer and cheaper than renting a large excavator.

there is a whole side of the skin that has been protected from the elements for quite some time. I’m hoping it’s in great shape. I’ve been wondering what would be possible for the sections that might not be in the greatest shape. I will revisit this post with the MIP.

I shouldn’t have any equipment cost to disassemble or assemble as company I work for and owns the building will be providing it. I may see if I can get them to haul in a picker if I commit. I would be saving them quite a bit of money in demolition cost.

 

[cannuck]

I shouldn’t have any equipment cost to disassemble or assemble as company I work for and owns the building will be providing it. I may see if I can get them to haul in a picker if I commit. I would be saving them quite a bit of money in demolition cost.

More importantly you will be saving resources. Did I forget to mention: I HATE WASTE!!!

 

[strutaeng]

That's a pretty cool building. I've worked on modifying and even strengthening these types of buildings as a consultant.

Looks like rivets and those square nuts was common, probably before the 1940s-1950s before welding became common practice. I worked on one last year that was similar and we were going to do some welding to the existing steel. We had a "steel coupon test" performed and the report basically said it was comparable to modern A36 grade, so very weldable.

Are those wedges something to hold the tin panels in place?

I would agree that the skin doesn't look too great. It sure sounds like a lot of work to move this building, but anything is possible.

 

[nickhare_21]

Yes, the wedges are the only fasteners that hold the skin panels in place to each other. They are then connected by wedges to a rail that is clamped on the ends in between each span of the columns.